UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Design => Topic started by: A M D G on July 08, 2006, 10:03:39 am
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Greetings to all!
First of all I wish to tell that you good fellows - to make such class game, true continuation of a series.
Yesterday I climbed on UFOPEDIA and I was occurred with one idea. Why instead of models of the weapon to not put the beautiful pictures drawn in a photoshop? If UFOPEDIA was three-dimensional then it would be clear, but time of a picture do not move, on mine it will be much better to make here so:
http://forum.nival.com/rus//attachment.php?attachmentid=15897&d=1152287213
http://forum.nival.com/rus//attachment.php?attachmentid=15889&d=1152283676
If it was pleasant to you, I can make pictures to all small arms.
PS Sorry for bad English - I'am Russian. :)
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Actually, the models can be rotated in the UFOpedia. So they're not really still pictures. And even if they were, it would be less costly to just display the models, because making images of all the weapons would just be extra work.
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Some of the models look bad in the ufopedia (a slight rotation is needed, usually), but there is already a but report filled for that.
Models are better than pictures, because when the models change, the pictures would have to be changed too or players would be confused. Moreover we have no conflict of visual styles. But you are very welcome to contribute in one of the many other ways...
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Or perhaps the models in Ufopedia should slowly rotate, slightly and randomly changing direction? And when player clicks on them they should stop and when dragged they should rotate in the direction indicated? Eye candy is sweet. :)
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The dragging thing is in already. I can't imagine making the models rotate is hard to implement at all, though I'd prefer them to rotate along one axis only.
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Thanks big for answers.
But at me the weapon does not rotate, at me rotates only cartrige chambers. Besides before you to me it have told, I did not guess such opportunity. :) Can be somehow mark this function?
And still. I think that UFO: AI should be extremely simple both in UFOPEDIA and in other places. So was and in X-com. IMHO rotating models - superfluous complication for game. Let alone that that very few people uses it. :)
PS About that is superfluous trouble - I with pleasure shall make pictures to all weapon and is absolutely free-of-charge! :)
PPS And with pleasure.
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And still. I think that UFO: AI should be extremely simple both in UFOPEDIA and in other places. So was and in X-com. IMHO rotating models - superfluous complication for game.
What is so complicated in roting models???? I just don't get it how can roating (turning) models make ufopedia difficult???? they are just nice to look at...
Let alone that that very few people uses it. :)
i am not sure about that, they are not ment to "use them" they are ment to ufopedia to look cooler (mho) ... And wouln't it be cool if u could see the alien b**ts and other stuff...
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I do not speak that it difficult for perception. I spoke about simplicity. Which always is perceived easy and clearly.
I do not try to impose the opinion and to force to change UFOPEDIA but if to it will listen, I shall be glad.
But tell to me, what picture is better? In fact they do not differ with anything besides that on one drawn model, and on another a real picture. Simply on perception.
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If you could properly rotate the model (which you can in the next release), I'd say the model is better.
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I do not speak that it difficult for perception. I spoke about simplicity. Which always is perceived easy and clearly.
What is there so hard in roating pictures??? (models) Can anyone explain me whats so "hard to understand" when weapon slowly spins?.... What makes that difficult? its simple, if its spins enough slowly not in hyperspeed or something...
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Easy, easy. :) I at all had it in view of. Here you spoke me that will long make new pictures but then will make how many rotating models? Such trouble with scripts, when UFOPEDIA so continually... have bugs. (sorry I can't formulate in English)
I do not object to them, but I do not see them. And I know that is possible excellently (as in Rome: TW, in the same X-com: Apocalypse, HoMM 3 and other) to make not animated UFOPEDIA and not who will not dare to tell that it unmodernly.
PS I hope you understand me? :oops:
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PS I hope you understand me? :oops:
I can't say that :P but I will respond, nevertheless. I think we all agree that the fact the current models can be rotated by dragging (I didn't know about it, either) will be easier to guess if they spin slowly along a diagonal axis. I also think they will look better (some of them look flat right now) and more impressive.
I know that the slow spinning and rotation by dragging is easy to code, as opposed to displaying pictures, keeping and updating a table of pictures corresponding to models, updating the table, updating the pictures, etc. Therefore, if I was a developer I would reject your kind offer on the basis of simplicity alone. I also reiterate your any other help is very welcome --- just visit the Contribute page on the Wiki. :)
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if they spin slowly along a diagonal axis.
Hmm, I'd say vertical. Keep in mind that the models can't be rotated 360 degrees on the horizontal axis, if you reach top or bottom view you can't go any farther. Try it out in the UFOpedia. (it's kind of broken in the old tech beta, though).
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Whatever. :)
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Ok, good. But if I shall create beautiful models in 3Ds MAX (higher quality than now) they can be inserted in UFOPEDIA? Q2 In game certainly cannot prosses these models, but in UFOPEDIA it is possible to make as a series of pictures.
PS Excuse I can't correctly formulate a phrase, again. :)
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if we have higher quality models for all the weapons.. why not.
but the more interesting part of your post: if you are a modeller, please have a look here: http://ufo.myexp.de/wiki/index.php/TODO#Models_2
and maybe you are able to do some map models - we need more cars, trees, streetlamps and so on. stuff that we can put into the maps to add more details. if would say that this has much higher priority than higher quality models for ufopedia.
also, if you already did some models and exported them for q2 like games please take a look at http://ufo.myexp.de/wiki/index.php/Modelling/3DSMax - maybe you are able to extend this article a little?
best regards
martin
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Thanks!
I not so understand that on this page it is necessary to do. :)
By the way I am not able to convert from 3D Max in q2.
And still, the matter is that I cannot make model of the same quality. I can make only better. :) Or the converter does it automatically?
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I think that the ufopedia is easyest to update if the items are models instead of screenshots.
In the other hand.
Our modellers actually use GPL models? I mean that we can use some GPL models instead of design all for ourself. Probably some common models can be use, and the modellers can have more time for model the real important ones.
Probably this question is stupid maybe now we are working in this way. :wink:
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Where to get them?
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Iam here!
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AMDG did you read the todo list for the models and find something you would like to work on?
If you don't get the stuff to low poly - just import existing md2s and use them - e.g. the sheik animation or animate the ugvs.... something like that.
mattn
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Hm... List of models or picture for it? :roll:
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wiki
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OK. Can I create icon for NANO Armor?
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Don't you like the current one? If so --- yes --- just make sure it is similar to the models...
P.S. you can see the models in-game by choosing test campaing, as explained in the wiki under "Tweak Weapons".
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Hm... Where I can see full UFOPEDIA?
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Type research_all in the console.
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Thanks!
Hm. At version UFOAI RC3.0 models are rotating. Think it is good, but beauty pics would be not bad, too. :)
Sory, I desinformated you. I want to make icon for Heavy Nano, it havent and models and icon.
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Hm. At version UFOAI RC3.0 models are rotating.
By themselves, or when you drag them with mouse?
Think it is good, but beauty pics would be not bad, too. :)
We've discussed it before and we've come to the conclusion that we only need pictures for thigs that have no models (like all the research, damage types, skills, etc.) and those that have ugly models, like amor, some alien topics, etc., but these need to be in accord with models...
Sory, I desinformated you. I want to make icon for Heavy Nano, it havent and models and icon.
Great, but even better if you can make some concept art for the models themselves, so that when somebody makes models they fit your icon...
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the armor pics are render screenshots from the armor models. see the existing ones in base/models/soldiers subfolders. It would be bad to make this in another direction. a concept art would be ok. models of them would be ok, too :-D
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ah... but keep in mind, that you also need to adopt the female and male soldier models to use the armor. like this was done for the light and medium armor we need an folder maleheavy and femaleheavy with your models of armor and soldiers. that wear this armor.
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By themselves, or when you drag them with mouse?
With mouse. Hm. By the way very much it was pleasant to me that models remain in that position in what you have set first of them. But I think that it is no use to make ammunitions separately. Especially in a view of that UFOPEDIA have a little changed design.
We've discussed it before and we've come to the conclusion that we only need pictures for thigs that have no models (like all the research, damage types, skills, etc.) and those that have ugly models, like amor, some alien topics, etc., but these need to be in accord with models...
I am concordant.
the armor pics are render screenshots from the armor models. see the existing ones in base/models/soldiers subfolders. It would be bad to make this in another direction. a concept art would be ok. models of them would be ok, too
Sory. :oops: Can you replay this phrase with more simply word?
ah... but keep in mind, that you also need to adopt the female and male soldier models to use the armor. like this was done for the light and medium armor we need an folder maleheavy and femaleheavy with your models of armor and soldiers. that wear this armor.
Better I just icons shall make. :)
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But I think that it is no use to make ammunitions separately.
Notice that there can be many ammunition types for the same weapon. Moreover on the ammunition pages you have different info that on the weapon page, e.g. the damage type info. (The main descriptions are usually the same, though). Could you explain what bothers you in separate ammunition ufopedia pages? Perhaps we can improve the interface, etc...
the armor pics are render screenshots from the armor models. see the existing ones in base/models/soldiers subfolders. It would be bad to make this in another direction. a concept art would be ok. models of them would be ok, too
Sory. :oops: Can you replay this phrase with more simply word?
Here you are: the armor pics are not drawn by hand. They are just photograps of models. So we don't need armor icons (I will correct the wiki in a minute to reflect that). Sorry! On the other hand a concept art that would inspire a modeller is very welcome.
Better I just icons shall make. :)
No need for them, infortunately...
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Notice that there can be many ammunition types for the same weapon. Moreover on the ammunition pages you have different info that on the weapon page, e.g. the damage type info. (The main descriptions are usually the same, though). Could you explain what bothers you in separate ammunition ufopedia pages? Perhaps we can improve the interface, etc...
Same it is elementary. It is simple as a pancake. :) I can draw right now a couple of sketches for UFOPEDIA where will be on one page both an ammunition and the weapon, and the information on these. To tell the truth IMHO it is not so convenient when damage type is on other page.
Here you are: the armor pics are not drawn by hand. They are just photograps of models. So we don't need armor icons (I will correct the wiki in a minute to reflect that). Sorry! On the other hand a concept art that would inspire a modeller is very welcome
Hm. Why you still so have not made?
Are you remember how pics for skills and others was have been made at X-Com?
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I can draw right now a couple of sketches for UFOPEDIA where will be on one page both an ammunition and the weapon, and the information on these.
Sure, please do. For Rocket Launcher and its three kinds of rockets, each with a separate damage type and a piece of decription.
To tell the truth IMHO it is not so convenient when damage type is on other page.
You may be right. But just one click on the ammo model (the click is not yet implemented) and you are on the ammo page where the damage is listed.
Hm. Why you still so have not made?
What have I not made? I corrected the wiki...
Are you remember how pics for skills and others was have been made at X-Com?
Drawn. No models.
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I can draw right now a couple of sketches for UFOPEDIA where will be on one page both an ammunition and the weapon, and the information on these.
Sure, please do. For Rocket Launcher and its three kinds of rockets, each with a separate damage type and a piece of decription.
To tell the truth IMHO it is not so convenient when damage type is on other page.
You may be right. But just one click on the ammo model (the click is not yet implemented) and you are on the ammo page where the damage is listed.
Hm. Why you still so have not made?
What have I not made? I corrected the wiki...
Are you remember how pics for skills and others was have been made at X-Com?
Drawn. No models.
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Look. We can place all cartrige chambers and other unary ammunition on page with the weapon. I now shall draw it. And and, for example, pomegranates we can place rockets on separate pages. I shall draw it now, too.:)
Drawn. No models.
Ingeniously and simply! There is no I do not suggest to insert a picture, I simply would want that we took from them an example.:)
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OK, so I'll try to translate: You propose to place all weapons with unary ammunition on one page with the ammunition, and other weapons on separate pages with their ammunition. Right? Great, please draw it. Take care so that the multiple ammunition pages clearly indicate the ammo is multiple. Remember that, usually, on the beginning of the game, only one ammo will be known, the rest has to be researched...
There is no I do not suggest to insert a picture, I simply would want that we took from them an example.:)
I would suggest that you either play XCom, or draw some needed pictures for UFO:AI, such as pictures of skills, damage types, etc. See TODO on the wiki inder Concept Art.
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Ok. I already have a picture for the unary weapon. I can lay out it. :)
I am afraid, that UFOPEDIA would coincide with researches, it is necessary to complicate it a little. Later I shall show as - on a picture.
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Ok. I already have a picture for the unary weapon. I can lay out it. :)
I am afraid, that UFOPEDIA would coincide with researches, it is necessary to complicate it a little. Later I shall show as - on a picture.
Please show both pictures, because I don't understand a thing. :D
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http://forum.nival.com/rus//attachment.php?attachmentid=16708&d=1154162436
Something in such sort.
Hm. I cant past image at forum. I must make a link. :(
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Hmm. No picture of the ammo clip? And where is the link to the skill pages?
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Hmm. No picture of the ammo clip?
No GOOD QUALITY pic of the ammo clip. Arrangement of parameters not necessarily such. I think "accuracy" should be in a column of the weapon. By the way, and there is such parameter as weight of a subject? Such was in x-com. But I have not heard the main thing: it was pleasant to you?:)
And where is the link to the skill pages?
I think that first is necessary to understand even with this picture, secondly with a picture of multiammo weapon and, only, thirdly with a picture of skills. Because they should be drawn simply. Hm...
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No GOOD QUALITY pic of the ammo clip.
I meant, where the model of ammo clip should be placed? I don't care about quality, since it's only a mock-up.
By the way, and there is such parameter as weight of a subject?
There will be, but not currently implemented...
But I have not heard the main thing: it was pleasant to you?:)
I'm afraid --- not. I like the rifle pictures. Frankly I would like to have such a model in-game. But it's not me who decides and modellers are busy with models that are missing. It would be waste of their time to let them redesign Assault Rifle based on your picture. About the position of various things on the screen --- it seems chaotic, even if the lack of ammo clip is the cause of most of this impression.
And where is the link to the skill pages?
I think that first is necessary to understand even with this picture, secondly with a picture of multiammo weapon and, only, thirdly with a picture of skills. Because they should be drawn simply. Hm...
Could you translate, please. :)
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I meant, where the model of ammo clip should be placed? I don't care about quality, since it's only a mock-up.
In a square on the right.
There will be, but not currently implemented...
Let's wait. :arrow:
I'm afraid --- not. I like the rifle pictures. Frankly I would like to have such a model in-game. But it's not me who decides and modellers are busy with models that are missing. It would be waste of their time to let them redesign Assault Rifle based on your picture. About the position of various things on the screen --- it seems chaotic, even if the lack of ammo clip is the cause of most of this impression.
O devil, it is absolutely unimportant! Pics or rotating model what difference? We talk about an arrangement of parameters of the weapon and it ammo on one page. :?
I think that first is necessary to understand even with this picture, secondly with a picture of multiammo weapon and, only, thirdly with a picture of skills. Because they should be drawn simply. Hm...
My english... :) You in general have understood nothing?
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I meant, where the model of ammo clip should be placed? I don't care about quality, since it's only a mock-up.
In a square on the right.
OK. Looks better. And will there be a sketch of how much backpack place the ammo takes, just as in case of the rifle on the left? Will you be able to rotate the ammo model, just as you can rotate the rifle one?
We talk about an arrangement of parameters of the weapon and it ammo on one page. :?
Yes, and I told you it looks chaotic to me. The sentence about the nice picture was only to help you swallow my critique. :)
I think that first is necessary to understand even with this picture, secondly with a picture of multiammo weapon and, only, thirdly with a picture of skills. Because they should be drawn simply. Hm...
My english... :) You in general have understood nothing?
[/quote]
In this sentence nothing, this is why I asked you to tranlate it to English.
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OK. Looks better. And will there be a sketch of how much backpack place the ammo takes, just as in case of the rifle on the left? Will you be able to rotate the ammo model, just as you can rotate the rifle one?
Hm. So in fact it and now cannot be rotated. :) And so what for?\
Yes, and I told you it looks chaotic to me. The sentence about the nice picture was only to help you swallow my critique.
If I could do from zero... However what difference.
I have simply added some new lines to already existing and this small square. Well and still the image of a rifle in a backpack. But I can clean it...:)
In this sentence nothing, this is why I asked you to tranlate it to English.
All right, there was nothing important.
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I repeat the question: will there be a sketch of how much backpack place the ammo takes, just as in case of the rifle on the left?
Will you be able to rotate the ammo model, just as you can rotate the rifle one?
Hm. So in fact it and now cannot be rotated. :) And so what for?
Nothing. Just asking. Perhaps you are right; rotating weapon model is enough and nobody will really want to rotate ammo...
I have simply added some new lines to already existing and this small square.
But you have moved some lines in a not very logical way, IMHO. Perhaps the bottom half of the screen can be divided logically between the rifle and the ammo. Like: on the left the rifle, as it fits in the backpack and all the info that currently is displayed on the rifle ufopedia page. On the right, in the box, the ammo, shown with a nice tilt and the backpack squares in the background, and all the info that currently is on the ammo page. What do you think?
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I repeat the question: will there be a sketch of how much backpack place the ammo takes, just as in case of the rifle on the left?
It is possible to insert. And it is possible and to not insert. And it is possible to insert into the right half.
But you have moved some lines in a not very logical way, IMHO. Perhaps the bottom half of the screen can be divided logically between the rifle and the ammo. Like: on the left the rifle, as it fits in the backpack and all the info that currently is displayed on the rifle ufopedia page. On the right, in the box, the ammo, shown with a nice tilt and the backpack squares in the background, and all the info that currently is on the ammo page. What do you think?
It agree. I in general not especially reflected when lines inserted. But IMHO accuracy would be better for leaving in the right half. Though... It is possible to make and so.
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Hi its again me. :)
I for a long time thought and have understood that you are right. :)
But now I have other proposal. Whether it is possible to increase the resolution of textures for clips even twice? If yes that I at once can give new textures of assasult_clip, laserpistol_clip and plasmarifle_clip. And I can make other.
PS New it is not "absolutley new" it simply more high quality.
PPS Why omly to clips? Because, though they also can be in fighting mode, basically them see only in UFOPEDIA and there is no superfluous capacity on a computer.