UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: BlakeD on July 25, 2007, 05:28:18 am
-
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=x-com
Check it out.
-
That's stupid, there are two sellers, one of the is totally unknown, the other has 604 good ratings ?!
Anyway most of the people will go on google before purchasing something, they won't be fooled by those lowless cheapskates.
Did Ufo AI already appear as a bundle CD in a game review magasine ? that would be an explanation...
-
What does the GPL say about this? I don't think it states you can't make money off the software.
-
I would find it upsetting if someone was conned into paying for UFO:AI.
The ad states UFO:AI is LGPL, which is incorrect, it is GPL.
Note to eBay Staff: We are authorized to distribute this software by the copyright holder under GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL).
You may charge any price or no price for each copy that you convey, and you may offer support or warranty protection for a fee.
So they are allowed to put it on ebay for a fee. I think we could report the seller to ebay on the grounds they have the license wrong. I will do this, if people are in agreement.
-
I was looking into reporting the item myself, but since you seem to know more of this than I do I will leave it to you.
-
Seems to be a problem with the ebay reporting submissions system. Could someone with a US ebay account try to report it? My suggested text for the report is
"
There are several items listed as
"Computer PC Game - UFO ALIEN INVASION comparable X-COM"
The adverts say the game is released under the LGPL. This is not allowed. The game is GPL, and so may never be redistributed under LGPL. It is free, open source
http://sourceforge.net/project/platformdownload.php?group_id=157793
"
It occurs to me that a good way to ensure this doe not happen would be to create a UFO:AI "buy it now" item for zero money, or 1 cent. The advert could direct people to get it free from sourceforge.
-
Hah. Actually, take a look here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/downloadable.html
Any digitally delivered item may not be pornographic in nature.
We have a couple of images like that. We could nab him on that!
-
There's no way to actually submit a text report - you pick categories from menus and submenus - so I reported it as selling beta, test, or evaluation software. Seems to be the best I could do. It would be nice if I could submit an actual explanation, but based on how their reporting system is set up, Ebay doesn't seem interested in hearing it.
Received an email from ebay saying I woudn't be hearing back, they will resolve the issue on their own with the information I gave them. :roll:
Maybe someone with a little more ebay experience will know a better way to communicate the problem, because I'm not at all confident what I did will result in any action.
-
We have a couple of images like that.
I believe we do not. But blondandy is right, of course. Anyone can sell GPL stuff anytime as long as seller saves the license.
But! We do have some CC stuff with Attribute-NonCommercial. Now this is *forbidden* to be sold in any way.
-
I believe we do not.
/base/textures/tex_pics/x_calendar_up*.jpg
-
I wish you good luck convincing the ebay or the US court that such images are pornography. :P
EDIT: the bigger problem is that we do not have permissions to use them, I believe, while these are placed on three maps.
-
Heh. Anyone here up for taking nude photographs of themselves and releasing them under the GPL?
-
I have a male tom that's been meowing for weeks for a woman...
Best I could do is offer some "Kittie" porn under GPL.
-
I have tried again. Created a US ebay account for the purpose. In fact I reported it 3 times under different systems. (it is a crap submissions system with only certain categories). depending on the category, you can send a detailed message. I chose stolen/intellectual property. my message was (thanks for the CC noncommercial hint, Zen)
"
items
200132366909
200134152309
200133761501
This game is released under GPL. It is free open source.
see
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ufoai/
The seller has no right to release it under LGPL.
It contains CC noncommercial material. This may not be sold.
"
Please could other people report to ebay.com too. I reckon that a flood of communication may make them take notice. looking at the vendor's account, you can see that some people have already been cheated of 10 dollars.
-
Dear Andy,
Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the potential infringement of
intellectual property.
If you come across an item that you believe may infringe someone's
intellectual property rights, we encourage you to contact the rights
owner. Rights owners can have infringing listings removed through the
eBay Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program.
You'll find a list of rights owners and contact information, as well as
information about infringing items, in the VeRO Program About Me pages.
To view the list, please go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html
If you are a rights owner and would like more information about the VeRO
Program, visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/programs-vero-ov.html
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Isabella
eBay Customer Support
sounds like they are not going to do anything unless they are told more and repeatedly. would members of the dev team ("rights owners") like to follow those links and pursue this?
-
I was going to "sell" a version of the game on ebay to compete, for as little money as i could. in the advert i planned to redirect people to sourceforge to get it for free.
it turns out that i can only list on ebay.co.uk. would an american would like to create a listing on ebay.com?
-
I'm up for this - One of my music scores is in the package, under CC *non*-commercial, specifically the 3.0 United States version - I'll say right here and now that I'll give permission for the devs to speak on my behalf if they fight this.
-
BlondAndy, In response to your message, I'm willing to open a US account with a redirecting link, but before I do so, do I have permission from the devs? Also, exactly which URL should I use - ufoai.ninex.info or ufoai.sf.net?
EDIT: Should I also include a copy of the proper license in the listing if I do this?
-
please redirect to ufoai.sf.net
a proper license ... no - just link to the license article in the wiki maybe - because there are a lot of licenses we are using. or just write, that the game is released under several open-source licenses
-
It seems I can contact people who have been defrauded.
UFO alien invasion is a free open source game.
see
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ufoai
selling you the game was fraudulent. it is GPL, so may never be sold under LGPL. It also has CC-noncommercial content.
Please report the vendor to ebay and demand a refund. I have reported the issue to ebay, but they are being very slow to do anything.
but ebay is making me wait 3 days (from me signing up for ebay.com) before i can transmit this to the defrauded parties.
-
Status Report:
The United States Ebay system is apparantly a little different, I was just able to get an immediate account opened including a seller account, but they want to charge me monthly fees to have any kind of listing with additional fees for special options, like digital downloads, etc.
I'll attempt to figure out how to contact people who were already swindled by the sellers, if the system lets me do it at all.
-
Update: The USA Ebay website doesn't list any previous buyers for me, but I was able to get an email form for reporting copyright violations, infringement of intellectual property, etc., and I sent a detailed message which included the URL for this project website for them to look at for reference. I got an email back right away saying I should get an official response in 24-48 hours.
If I see that some poor buyer payed money for the game, I'll try to contact them.
I guess that's all I can do right now, when they reply I'll post another update.
EDIT: I noticed that the seller uses "we" in the description to imply that he/she created the game!
I also noticed the seller is based in the US, and I can tell you that US copyright and intellectual property laws are very tough here - this seller could potentially be liable for felony charges including up to five years in jail if this was really pushed all the way in court. (Not that I'm recommending going that far, but just so everyone knows.)
-
When I read the seller's text it sounded to me like he just copied it from the UFO:AI website, hence the "we". People like him make me sick.
-
I hope all of you are aware of the fact, that if anyone will remove the stuff released under CC-Attribute-NonCommercial, he is free to sell the rest stuff in UFO:AI and that will be pretty legal.
-
I realized I was the one who kicked off this little thread, but has anyone considered additional exposure (even this) might be good for the project?
Just a thought.
-
I hope all of you are aware of the fact, that if anyone will remove the stuff released under CC-Attribute-NonCommercial, he is free to sell the rest stuff in UFO:AI and that will be pretty legal.
The small print of his advert says LGPL. He is not allowed to do that. (GPL is contagious).
I think the sell it on ebay for a small fee (and direct shoppers to get it for free in the advert) is a reasonable strategy. will need to cover the cost of posting on ebay.
-
Ebay just wrote back, I got about the same message BlondAndy did, I would have to go through the VERO program and fax in the form to get any further.
Speaking for myself, I'm not really interested in a lengthy drawn-out legal battle that could take a year before settlement. Yes, we could probably eventually win in court, and yes we could win money plus the cost of court and legal fees, but I personally don't think it is worth it.
Posting an ad that says the game is free from this website seems to make more sense, although it can't be done for free from Ebay (at least on the U.S. site) and I don't personally have the spare money for a monthly listing fee (as a matter of fact, I'm progessing slowly out of debt right now).
At the very least, perhaps something could be posted on other websites or this one that people should not pay money on Ebay for the game?
I also noticed that this game shows up on IGN, Gamespy, Mobygames, and a number of other gaming sites that normally show info about commercial games. These other sites tell the truth that it is free, although some of their entries have older versions and don't have complete listings (such as a link to this project website).
Any other ideas?
-
I have emailed a customer who purchased the game to complain to ebay.
I know from experience that ebay really dont care about customer relations.
I will see if I can warn anyone else by putting a warning on the main notice board.
-
How about mentioning this on the ufoai main page as a news item? That way ebay should quickly get sufficient complaints.
-
A customer who purchased the game says
"This seller is selling a specialized version of the free game- he offers a few different functionalities that aren't offered on the free version, but the functionalities being offered also cause the game to be a little unstable-"
No idea what changes have been made.
-
Maybe he's selling a 2.2 test installer, as opposed to the official 2.1.1 version.
-
Someone should find out if they're actually providing the source code for their modifications. If they're not, you can really rake em' over the coals. That would be a GPL violation. The owners of this project could then take them to court to force the source to their changes out of them.
They seem to be infringing on the artwork licenses, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were stepping all over the code license, too.
-
Hello I've been following this thread and have been contacting the members that have bought this game from this guy.
One member told me that after he bought it, he was sent this link to download it:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=157793&package_id=194208
maybe you can see now if it's legit for him to do so or not.
-
So someone was swindled into paying money for a link to the free sourceforge download - yup, that's definitely a scam all right...
Something tells me someone was probably going to pull something like this with something free sooner or later, seems everyone wants to make a buck these days, even if it's through illegal means.
Well, being that the seller is based in the U.S. I'd say there is more than enough grounds to prosecute, although I'm not a lawyer.
I would suggest one of the devs, if they wish to pursue this, be chosen to represent the collective developers and contributers to this project and go through the VERO program on ebay - the form did state explicitly that it would not have to be filled out and submitted by the actual creator(s) of the work, but could be done by someone authorized to represent.
Simply going through the VERO program alone might be enough to stop this scandal, and would not necessarily mean a drawn-out legal battle, therefore I would suggest the VERO form first.
-
Am I correct about not seeing any response from the devs in this this thread? Do they care? I would like to see this guy get penalized for something...
Anyway this is the guy selling it on eBay and it looks like he has had a lot of unaware people buy this from him.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Computer-PC-Game-UFO-ALIEN-INVASION-comparable-X-COM_W0QQitemZ200127210132QQihZ010QQcategoryZ62053QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
-
The trouble is that it's hard to get scams off eBay, as they don't really seem to care. Do you have any idea how many Nigerian scammers operate on eBay?
However, in recent versions there has been a notice on the startup screen saying "you can download this game for free at http://ufoai.sf.net/". Someone who sold that would most likely get a negative feedback.
-
Am I correct about not seeing any response from the devs in this this thread? Do they care? I would like to see this guy get penalized for something...
Unfortunalty there are no project owner, but project managers. People that could have been the "owners" (im am using the " since the project summarize a lot of separatly owned data/arts through private contributors, thus having a lot of "owners") left the project long time ago, what you can see there is a team of volunteers to continue and enhance their work.
So if a complaint is to be done, anyone is eligible to submit it, even you since you are member of the forum now. :shock:
I think there is really nothing we can do about, unless you go and post of ebay forum (if there is any).
-
The guy is still selling the game, people are still not checking things out before buying. mareszah_17( 768Feedback score is 500 to 999
his feed back is 98%, who said crime don't pay?
-
Recent versions contain a warning on the loading screen that the game is free. It's really all we can do against this. It's sad, but true.
-
you can't do nothing against people inanity. I don't know who regret more, seller or the people that buy from him.
About the screen it's a good idea but this guy can sell older versions that not contain the screen. I suggest that you remove all files from 2.1.1 ver and place the dev 2.2 if he is still sending link to sourceforge.net. Seller and people will have nice surprise.
-
Yes, I agree. Once 2.2 is ready the download for 2.1.1 should go.
-
You should check his feed back items and see just how many people this guy has sold to. I guess most people are trusting and think they wont get conned. I am also one of the trusting part of the human race, welcome to the real world :-[
-
I think that part of it is that people don't even realize that they've been conned. Most people don't know what sourceforge is and a lot never even bother to visit the game's homepage. And even if they do find out they've been conned, they may not go to the trouble of raising an issue over $10. That's how it works. You scam people just a little so it doesn't really hurt them, but do it often enough and you end up rich.
-
Hello. I've also just seen this scam going on Ebay. There seems to be only one seller selling this on Ebay, so I'm trying to send a message to every Ebay member who has bought this through the seller's feedback page.
Here is my suggestion for the developers, whoever they are: Pick one among yourselves every few months to be the "owner" of this project, and that proceed with whatever action can be taken. People, including Ebay, apparently doesn't give a s.t about non-profit open-source projects. There has to be someone in flesh and bone for them to care.
-
What would be interesting is if one of us involved in the project sacrificed a few dollars to "buy" the game and then left a negative feedback rating with a sentence explaining that the seller is illegally selling a product he doesn't have rights to...
Seriously, I looked at the ratings for this seller and a break in his almost perfect track record could really do some damage to his reputation and make people wake up, as his ratings are listed from previous buyers along with a sentence by each rating.
I can personally afford the $8 or whatever if more people are willing to jump in, just an idea...
(Don't spend anything yet though, at least not unless more people are willing.)
It would certainly cost much less than a court filing fee along with attorney costs and other related legal fees.
-
On another thought, one that wouldn't cost anything, perhaps a little note could be added to the game's installer/setup screen? Something that explains before the license that the game is free and any sale is unauthorized and illegal (or something similar)?
-
Nobody ever reads what is written on the initial screens of an installer. We've got a notice on the game's loading screen, which is a lot more effective.
-
Yeah, I guess you're right, now that I think about it.
This looks like one of those things in life where someone does something bad and not too much can be done about it. :(
Unless anyone has any great new ideas about what can be done about it (that would actually work), I don't see much point in going on and on any more on this topic, IMO. I admit I'm still a little mad about it, but other than the already-implemented loading screen message in the game I don't think much more can realistically be done.
-
Well, what you COULD do is remove the SF download altogether and make a download page of your own. You could then put a captcha system in place or something to prevent people downloading it from elsewhere, and stick a big sign saying "if you paid for this download you were ripped off" on that page.
But I suspect it's more trouble than it's worth.
-
Well, what you COULD do is remove the SF download altogether and make a download page of your own. You could then put a captcha system in place or something to prevent people downloading it from elsewhere, and stick a big sign saying "if you paid for this download you were ripped off" on that page.
But I suspect it's more trouble than it's worth.
The bandwidth costs would be enormous. I could provide a mirror for a terabyte or two, but for a new release of a popular 300+meg file, that's nothing.
Regards,
Winter
-
As destructavator said, buying the game from the seller might be a good idea. Once you buy it, you can open a dispute, have your money back, and still be able to leave feedback. However, the seller will most certainly leave negative feedback on you as well, so one better sign up just for this lest his feedback score be stained.
-
I don't think everyone here understands that this guy doesn't do anything illegal. It's his good right to sell GPLed software. So I don't think you could get your money back, and I don't think you could do anything to stop that. (E.g., some weeks ago, I saw a shop chain selling OpenOffice here in germany. And think about Linux distributors!)
The only thing someone selling open source software has to do is, he has to give the complete source code to anyone interested...
-
The point is that he isn't offering ANYTHING. He's only charging people money for the sourceforge URL. It may not be strictly illegal, but it's definitely a scam.
-
True, it certainly opens the door to prosecution, although whether it would be in civil court or criminal court I'm not sure, plus the fact that the game content is from various international creators, which makes it even more complicated as license and copyright laws vary from country to country - I've researched United States copyright law on my own in the past (though I don't know everything about it), but I know next to nothing about such laws in other countries.
Last time I checked, this seller was located in the United States, although United States laws on intellectual property also have special, additional rules for "imported" or otherwise foreign works that originate from other nations (which effs-up the math even more, into a gigantic legal equation).
Do we happen to have any lawyers who are in this forum? Don't be shy, raise your hand and shout!
As a side note, I noticed in a recent news report about the very first major lawsuit over an open-source project license violation - I don't remember all the details of the article, but somewhere in it it explained that such lawsuits apparently are quite rare. (If I'm remembering correctly, I could be wrong.)
-
He's only charging people money for the sourceforge URL.
How about creating large textual banner, and make the link just a redirection to another downloading site? And let the "innocent" buyers write complaints against him
-
The scammer would just link to the new download site directly. That's why I mentioned the captcha-or-similar system before, because you can't circumvent it (in theory).
-
Hmm... agree.
How about putting a similar lot with price of 0$ ? And distinct explanation about scammer?
-
To have a listing on EBay, even with a selling price of nothing, costs a listing fee, I think it is per month, if I remember correctly...