- PHALANX scientists reverse-engineer the alien FTL technology. Using this technology, a manned PHALANX scoutship visits distant worlds, long since raped by XVI. This leads to the discovery of the bulk of the backstory.I think this is an obscure point.
How slow is this super mind to have had a million of years to contemplate the mechanics of the universe, and only come up with what it has?
If they can sustain them selves on that, then grow to the point of needing to strip mine celestial bodies just to live, why is earth even worth the energy to go out of the way to bother with?
Planets like ours are very rare and might be worth much effort to colonize.
Granted XVI has accomplished a great deal, I still think it's on par with dirt, thinking wise.
...
I don't want to start a argument, but my point of view? It's that most all modern technology was either (discovered/invented) in war time in the quest for something else, or a direct result of something (discovered/invented) in war time.
Yeah, what a looser the XVI is. In a million years it only:Also, to be a bit fussy, it is not very compatible with the laws of natural selection that an organism maintained its genome identical for over a million years, and/or find a way to infect so many host and always have the same genome in all of them.
...If I understood well, XVI is something between a virus and a worm. It has to expand to as many organisms as possible. This means that it needs to have a genome able to adapt quickly to different situations and hosts. The more variable is XVI genome, the better is and the faster it is able to infect other specimen.This implies that two different XVI infected, would likely have two XVI infection units with different genome. If there are billions of infected hosts, it is very difficult for the original XVI to don't have rivals.
'You can't define "fittest" in any testable, concrete way... at best you have a tautology: "the fittest" = "those who survive long enough to reproduce the most" ... therefore we just have a single, self-evident statement-- not something testable or falsifiable.'
"natural selection"is even more problematic than fitness, because natural selection is just a lazy word for describing MANY different things altogether. I dont like this term. There is nothing "natural" about it, it just happens because of many DIFFERENT reasons.
The Antarean leader is now facing a dilemma. If he would admit mistake, he would be removed from the lead...and lifeI dont like storys, where persons appear. It makes everything just complicated. (I also dont know why scientists called "Connor" and "Navarre" are spamming emails on me...)
To contact Nyrii and hope they will protect them against Antarean assault. But there is only one transmitter strong enough to reach Nyrii, and that is at Antarean main outpost at solar system...This sounds like the story of UFO:Aftermath and I really dont like contacting the "good" aliens to help us against the "evil" aliens...
> Why do you have to explain everything about the aliens?
>>I do not think one necessarily has to explain everything, but if their background story is more plausible,
then the whole game wins in more detail.
> Not to mention that the AI play doesn't suggest a hive mind either.
>>I think the AI is a bit suboptimal right now, but on the other hand, a hive mind concept could be
>>interesting - it would give the whole aliens a more BORG like feeling :) (Star Trek)
>>Doesnt necessarily have to be a "hive mother" commanding, but it could be a good integrated
>>communication among the more intelligent aliens, ...
> At one point I even considered the possibility that the aliens were waging their own war (nothing to
> do with us) and Earth simply 'got in the way'.
>>I think this is problematic because, if they have a war, why would they send units over to Earth, and
>>why would they try to start another war? I think it is much better if the aliens are evil and want to
>>expand into new territories.
> Perhaps the aliens were visiting to see which side we were on?
> (Maybe it never occurred to them we were on neither side?)
>>Interesting idea but I think it would rather distract from the main focus of the game - human vs alien.
>>Whether the aliens fight other aliens, is not necessarily that interesting in the first place. (It could
>>be interesting maybe lateron, when different aliens are "discovered", which even fight against
>>both humans and other "earlier" aliens, but I think the main plot should always be humans vs aliens)
> Or maybe they were puzzled by the fact we were so difficult to communicate with?This goes back to the whole 'hive mind' part of the story too.
>>Come on ... they are supposed to be smart. They should not be puzzled, they should lay
>>down different strategies and follow up on that.
1) i think the versions that seem most believable in this thread are the ones that claim that the virus is not intelligent by itself, but joins the host's brain into the common consciousness by enabling a telepathic link.
the intelligence of such a psionic society would be immense, wouldn't it?
it's like the brains of all the population of several inhabited worlds joined together in a cluster.
i would guess there would be more than a few humans who would voluntarily like to be part of such system.
bio weapon thing wouldn't even be necessary imho, the aliens might just have created the virus or something else with similar effect to enhance their own race by linking their minds together.
this is why the brain harvesting is imho brilliant, because the brains are what humans are so proud of.
what i don't like so much about the virus idea (i can anticipate i might need a disclaimer: i can live with it, of course, lol) is that in the original story the aliens are the victimized victims of the evil bio weapon developers that also became victims themselves in the end. and the bio weapon itself is a victim of its own immense size. this gets so emo.
i would rather see aliens gathering human brains (preferably without body) to work for their research cluster while they amuse themselves with souvenirs from the primitive planet the same way we amuse ourselves with folk art.
or use human brains for thinking their simple thoughts (like a brain extension) and thus freeing their own brain resources to deal with the higher arts and sciences.
3) on the other hand, i suddenly remembered it would be nice to try to contribute something to the thread.
if people are looking for an explanation why the aliens are coming in small groups, i think it is apparent in the original story about the conquering of the races and the search for new races in the galaxy.
all that is needed is to remove the initial attack on mumbai.
and the explanation is as follows:
the first ufo-s contain only tamans because the scouting ships that arrive first where sent when the ortnok were not conquered yet.
and then they contain ortnoks and tamans but no shevaar, because the shevaar were not conquered when the next scouts were sent, and also the particle beam was not invented before.
Sounds good to me too, but for story and realism purposes, limit the telephatic link by distance. That would also explain why the attack on Earth is initially slow and weak - the smaller the numbers, the lesser the inteligence and effort, and the main forces of the aliens are far away, so a telephatic links in not possible.distance dependency of telepathic link is already in the story, afaik.
Though i hadn't read this when i wrote it. I still think the comments here on Mumbai (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=1965.msg12698#msg12698) are valid, that a full-scale slaughter doesn't mesh well with opening gameplay, nor does it seem necessary.
So why not have warring hive-minds? That would make the whole story even more plausible, since earth wouldn't be facing a unified, large galactic force, but rather only one smaller faction. That would certanly boots the survival chances.[...]both hive minds want to grow and therefore they should join.
[...]As for the killing aliens to reduce intelligence - more alien reinforcements are coming. Those you kill are replaced easily, probably faster then you can kill them.[...]i was talking about one tactical mission scale.
[...]Also, when you're the hive mind of the human, you control only a very small force at any time. So conserving your resources? A very good idea. When you have 1000000000000000000 troops at your disposal? What do a few matter?i think it matters because i assume you would want to get the job done in the tactical mission, even as an alien.
[...]The virus could be spread by insect sized robotic probes released in a few key areas[...]afaik somewhere in the storyline it said that the amount of infected blood that must be transferred must be large enough, this is why aliens will be using this large syringe thing.
both hive minds want to grow and therefore they should join.
if they didn't want to grow then they wouldn't be looking to assimilate new humanoids, i guess?
or was it that they just came here for resources?i was talking about one tactical mission scale.
Would you join with someone you consider your enemy or inferior?sorry, i see more contradictions here than before i last tried to clarify.
There is only 1 throne and 2 kings just don't work out.[...]
Am I late to the story party?
Ugh - This is getting worse than the "destructible terrain" thing.
Why do so many newcomers want to come along and ask us to throw out years of work and re-vamp everything?
[...]However, the problem with the current storyline is that the Milky Way galaxy is 100,000 light years across, and 1,000 light years thick (to the best of my knowledge, this does not include the stellar clusters that basically sort of orbit the galaxy above or below the ecliptic. I have been unable to find any sort of hard data for the amount of volume this includes but I have discovered roughly the number of stars we're talking about: somewhere between 200 and 400 million.[...]exactly, that would support the earlier proposal that the whole humanity would be wiped out by random agents that gather samples for galactic zoology museums.
[...]Like the Afghan tribes, whose blacksmiths can, using essentially seventeenth century techniques, make a virtually identical copy of the Soviet AKM from a few pieces of re-bar, we can replicate some of the alien technology...but also like the Afghan tribesmen, we have no hope of manufacturing our own ammunition for these weapons for some time to come. We certainly have no hope of being able to design new weapons to use this technology for quite some time...again, much like the Afghan tribal blacksmith.if we are going to have a gravity gun in ufo-ai, the ammunition problem would not arise though. certainly the preferred human ammunition for such guns should be apples, because this is how humans discovered gravity. and an apple accelerated to a high speed can be extremely dangerous.
if we are going to have a gravity gun in ufo-ai, the ammunition problem would not arise though. certainly the preferred human ammunition for such guns should be apples, because this is how humans discovered gravity. and an apple accelerated to a high speed can be extremely dangerous.
[...]the quote starts with 'if'.
Why do so many newcomers want to come along and ask us to throw out years of work and re-vamp everything?
If we constantly re-started to please every newcomer who came and did that we'd never make real progress.
At some point in a project's development, they really have to stop re-vamping things, pick a plot and stick with it so progress can be made.
We have to stick with what we have, even if it doesn't please everyone as being "perfect." Reason being, its good enough to make most of the game mechanics work.
Edit: If you really want a new plot, work on a mod or an alternate campaign, but for shit's sake I'd wish people would stop trying to re-do the main one!
I'm going to take a wild guess, and say that most of the newcomers keep trying to change the game's plot is basically because they're performing a rather crude form of market analysis for you. Now, you can ignore that analysis if you want--it's your game, and you're the ones who would have to do all the work of re-writing the story for it--but honestly, I truly would not recommend it.
So far, you've developed a truly awesome set of game mechanics, a truly inspiring game engine, fairly decent graphics, good sound effects, and so on and so forth. You've gotten all the minor little details perfected to such a degree that it's scary.
The problem (and apparently universal decree) is that your plot stands squarely in the way of making this one of the most awesome games that has ever been developed. I have played game after game where the developers made the mistake of concentrating on getting the details right, and ignoring the plot--and I've seen all to many games where the details were really kind of iffy, but the plot carried the player through. Total Annihilation's and Earth 2160 spring to mind most immediately as examples of the former, of games with great details, but crappy central plots. TA: Kingdoms springs to mind as the foremost example of a game with only decent mechanics but a plot I really liked to keep me playing for a long, long time. You marry a good--even a great--plot with a game like the one you've already got, and you're sitting on a gold mine, if you want to exploit it. At the very least, you've secured a reputation as one of the best game-producing outfits in the world today (especially if you can repeat your success). At most, you might find yourself able to obtain the financing to create your own game company, and to catapult all of you into wealth, fame, and riches.
As I've said, the choice is yours--but with a game like this, if you don't get it right on the first try, somebody else will. And after all the work you folks have put into it, it would truly be a shame if somebody else ended up in taking all the credit for the success UFO: AI is almost certain to become.
#3 -- 'Universal decree'? Don't make me laugh.
#1 -- The UFO:AI core plot is rock solid, and barring some edits that I'd like to make on parts of the backstory, there is nothing I am unhappy with.
Allow me to expand on this point - While we have had some users complain about the plot, the number of such people is nowhere near the number of people who have downloaded and enjoyed some version of the game as it is.
As of this post the number of downloads for just the 2.x versions total to 447,326 downloads, and I've seen the thread with the test installers for 2.3 has ~38,633 views, not to mention that many more download those test builds because I've seen people copy the links to other forums and places on the Internet.
By comparison, I don't see half-a-million forum members posting negative feedback on the game's plot. All that considered, the unsatisfied group appears to be a small minority.
Rock solid?
That...would be a rather generous statement, given how "light" the story is compared to all the technical fluff.
The XVII virus? The alien empire?
I can understand that you're proud of your achievment and with what you wrote...but calling it Rock Solid is like calling Avatar the most profound and original story ever written.....Ok, not like that, that was a really extreeme example, but you get my drift.
In short, the story doesn't passthe standards you yourself have set for the rest of the game.
Wouldn't that be because the current verion of the game doesn't go that far into the plot?
You can't have people complain when 99% of them don't even know what the plot IS.
Then why do you feel qualified to make judgments on the story when the story isn't complete?
Anyone with even the slightest grasp of writing knows that a good story is 1% idea, 99% execution. Amusingly, I've yet to see a single good storyline idea suggested on this forum.
It also says it has to engineer itself to infect each new set of hosts.
@herzila
as far as i remember, some time ago the devs wrote that, according to the planned plot, the game will be impossible to win.
so, if i remember correctly, phalanx will not be successful.
finally we would have a game that is not all about winning, then.
Not to say that there isn't any hope, but I now hold the opinion that it will require a lot more than just a few minor edits to get this to the "military realism" level the rest of the game exhibits.
The required IMHO
I'd like to note that the military realism was my idea, too. I had to fight long and hard to keep it in against people who thought it was stupid or irrelevant.
The main thing missing in this forum is a sense of perspective.
Regards,
Winter
Thank you very much for that but this doesn't change the storyline does it? The military realism aspect works in here, it ramps up the immersion a lot. But then the story seems to go from two species fighting into humanity once again kicking the ass of yet another Eldritch Abomination (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EldritchAbomination). Which is bad IMO.
Second would be the XVII virus itself. Changing it's backstory itself shouldn't be too difficult, since it's still not fully integrated into the game. And even if it was, the story/reports would need change, nothing else. So basicly, instead of a sentient, telepathic virus (which is scientificly utterly redicolous), make it a "normal" virus, one engineered to make a species succeptable to psionic control from the big bad(s). There's a lot of wiggle room as to who made the virus and who is pulling the strings.
You call that a good idea? You haven't even addressed who/what the 'big bad(s)' would be, and how in god's name you would make them remotely interesting. I know XVI is a fantastic villain because it's humanity's worst nightmare; an implacable, faceless horror that turns people against their own kind, changing them into ghastly perversions of what they used to be.
So, yeah, whatever. Show me something less 'redicolous' than XVI and we'll talk.
Regards,
Winter
How does this infectious agent manifest itself in a host organism? What kind of tissues it infects, how does it avoid/control the immuno-response of the host and how it proliferates? It was hinted that, thanks to its psionic abilities, this agent can acquire full control over its host, and maintain it indefinitely; however, it stands reason it will have to first grow and multiply its numbers towards a certain "critical mass" (which may be quite high), before it becomes capable of effectively taking control. During this interregnum, it may be (much more) vulnerable than anytime afterwards...
It is stated that the agent "is capable of completely controlling the body of whatever lifeform it infects". What about their *minds*? Can this agent control the minds of its victim, by planting suggestions and forcing them to do its bidding? Can it extract their memories, or use their knowledge to its advantage? Better yet, can it focus the minds of its victims into coordinated efforts to solve new (intellectual) challenges?
This is somebody else's sandbox, you are a guest here. Please refrain from pissing on the toys.
*sigh* Not these "If you don't like it STFU or GTFO" people again... In an open source project no less...
Oh no no no. That was not meant that way at all. I'm dreadfully sorry if it came across as such. You see I've been away for a year or so and I came back to find people still whining about the storyline without trying to improve on it.
This is somebody else's sandbox, you are a guest here. Please refrain from pissing on the toys.here was pretty much what most people say when they mean "STFU or GTFO", so I jumped into the wrong conclusion :-[.
For example, with the complaint about a galactic civilization being able to easily crush a single planet, it may not be able to easily muster or coordinate the forces needed to do so. If you had FTL communications, large scale transportation for troops and matereals over hunderds of light-years, and a standing military then crushing one little planet is easy. If it lacks FTL communications then the information about Earth and humans will only spread at the speed of the ships carrying the news. If the ships have a limit of twenty light-years per jump and a fuel supply limited to three or four jumps that will slow down the spread of information as well. A well endowed courier system could speed information flow up significantly, if the civilization needed one. If they have not previously needed a courier system then the resources to set one up have probably beed used elsewhere. And if information is taking months to reach a major population and resource center then large numbers of troops and arms can take longer to reach the conflict.
One major difference between humans and the aliens that that the alien civilization is cooperative as opposed to our competitive civilization. With our competition we keep trying to improve things in order to advance (or at least to not lose and die) within our society. At our most competitive we have wars, during these times we are at our most innovative as a society because the pressure to improve and beat the competition is the most immediate and intense. The cooperative civilization does not have this internal pressure to change or improve. Without an external threat there may be no stimulus for innovation or change. So a cooperative alien civilization could plausably exist without significant technological or social change for thousands of years.
IIUC the aliens move their whole spacecraft fleet and the GIGANTIC deep space station (which could call Death Star as tiny, puny golf ball), which had their whole population, together.
I don't think that the current plotline is bad in any way, it's just needs polishing and details. It really is just an outline in the current form and needs to be fleshed out.Wow... OK, let me first thank you for the warm (almost burning) welcome. Second, let me inform you I have reported your post to mods; see how they interpret that last line... :) And last but not least, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I will neither "STFU", nor "GTFO" for your convenience -- or anybody else's, for that matter. Deal with it !
If you wish to contribute then please do so.
This is somebody else's sandbox, you are a guest here. Please refrain from pissing on the toys.
I presume you have read the wiki but a couple of things I think I could answer based on the research texts.Yes, but only in part. There's already a lot to read through, and it will take some time for me to catch up. That's another reason why I wasn't too keen on "bombarding" the Forum with ideas; I'd rather spend some more time getting familiar with the storyline, as it is now -- and post questions whenever I feel something doesn't quite add up. Nevertheless, it is an ongoing process, I can assure you. :)
The immuno-response issue is at least one key reason for the re-engineering of XVI for different species. It has to use and abuse everything to stand a chance against it. And especially at the early infection, when there isn't much of it, it's logical to assume it's at its most vulnureable state.I agree with what you're saying about the agent's need for re-engineering itself to fit the biological particularities of each and every species it intends to use as hosts -- makes sense. One immediate consequence of this set-up is that a "strain" developed for a certain species will *not* be directly compatible with another species. This could prove useful in the story as a plot device...
The critical mass thing might be to avoid tipping the host off that he/she is infected. If the XVI would start to infect the central nervous system too early the host might seek medical attention rather quickly.
/*This is partly speculation based on my own logic*/ Based on the level it infects the brain I don't think there is any mind residing under the XVI. It basically turns the brain into a processor/HDD for the hivemind with memories and such intact (the one guy who was infected from PHALANX was evidently behaving fairly normally, otherwise he would have been catched earlier). It does seem lossy though, since it doesn't get sentience until a few hosts get near each other and the hivemind gets enough power despite the fact that the XVI infects sentient beings.So, in essence, you don't think the host's own consciousness actually survives; in other words, even if the person infected would be -- somehow -- cured, he or she would be pretty much a vegetable... Correct? If so, then it implies that some or all of the cognitive processes that give rise to consciousness are irreversibly impaired. This seem to be in conflict with your next statement, which says that "memories and such" are left intact. Of course, this problem becomes more of a philosophical conundrum, since it points us to ask what exactly is it that makes us who we are... ;) If someone would rush it and answer "well, surely the experiences we had lived through !", then that would most definitely translate into "memories"...
Sorry for the late response and welcome to the forums!Yup, thanks. Well, it's the time of vacations now, so delays are understandable... ;) I'm actually looking forward to my own ! :D
Wow... OK, let me first thank you for the warm (almost burning) welcome. Second, let me inform you I have reported your post to mods; see how they interpret that last line... :) And last but not least, let me make one thing perfectly clear: I will neither "STFU", nor "GTFO" for your convenience -- or anybody else's, for that matter. Deal with it !
I agree with what you're saying about the agent's need for re-engineering itself to fit the biological particularities of each and every species it intends to use as hosts -- makes sense. One immediate consequence of this set-up is that a "strain" developed for a certain species will *not* be directly compatible with another species. This could prove useful in the story as a plot device...
The "critical mass" is a requirement for the agent to be able to overcome the host's own consciousness and take over. The idea is it surely needs to multiply itself to a certain level, *BEFORE* it becomes possible to assume psionic control. My questions were specifically concerned with this time interval -- between initial infection and the moment the agent assumes full control over host.
Other than these, you've pretty much restated my assumptions/available information (the cyan-coloured text was meant as background/supplementary information; questions are in white), but not really answered any of the questions... ;)
So, in essence, you don't think the host's own consciousness actually survives; in other words, even if the person infected would be -- somehow -- cured, he or she would be pretty much a vegetable... Correct? If so, then it implies that some or all of the cognitive processes that give rise to consciousness are irreversibly impaired. This seem to be in conflict with your next statement, which says that "memories and such" are left intact. Of course, this problem becomes more of a philosophical conundrum, since it points us to ask what exactly is it that makes us who we are... ;) If someone would rush it and answer "well, surely the experiences we had lived through !", then that would most definitely translate into "memories"...
Welcome to the forums NicAdi. Please see this thread about making suggestions (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4948.0).Thank you. :) I already read that; however, at this point in time, I am neither interested, nor compelled to make any suggestions -- the main reason being that, based on the discussions I've witnessed thus far, it strikes me as a futile activity. Much like the XVI entity, I'm not commiting resources (mainly time), unless I can get something of value out of it. ;)
We established on the top of this page that he seemed to write a bit too agressively in his post, so he accidently portrayed himself as a "STFU or GTFO" guy, which was not intentional."We"?! I'm sorry, but there's no "we" on this matter; YOU chose to buy into his (rather feeble) attempt of an explanation, I did not... I could go through the reasoning process which lead me to give the response I did, but I'd rather spend my time here talking about the game. ;) Besides, I consider the matter closed and have no further wish of discussing it.
One thing I tried to say was that maybe part of the re-engineering process is giving the XVI ways to evade, bypass and fight the immune system.Oh, yes, I understood that, and I do agree -- it is a good starting point. Certainly knowing how the immune system of a target species works (an understanding that can be conceivably obtained by mapping that species' genome, and/or by conducting tissue sample experiments in the lab) could highlight its weaknesses and prompt ways of efficiently evading/disabling/fighting it by simply exploiting those weaknesses. Now, completely disabling or putting up a fight with the immune system would be a poor idea; the former will literally "open the door" to other, more local, attackers (resulting in the host becoming ill, with possible fatal outcome -- see AIDS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS)); the latter will undoubtedly leave/generate signs that will both prompt the host that "something's not right" (i.e. illness symptoms), and offer tangible, medical proof of infection. Neither of those are desired effects for the agent; thus, the first option of evading the host's immune system is the only viable one.
What I was trying to say is that when the XVI infects a brain, it's reduced to a mere computer working for the hivemind (analogue: a computer infected with a virus, so it is under control of a criminal). But if and when you cure the person and as such his brain, his memories and capability for conciousness are not hampered; at most he will be very disoriented and has very random bits of the hivemind's memories in his brain (you remove the virus and nothing has really happened to your computer; at most some clues are left about the criminal). The more negative way this might happen that upon removal the brain is left into a state when there isn't actually anything there. The person won't remember literally anything from normal memories to abilities like language (the removed virus managed to format or corrupt all your files). But to the brain nothing has happened, the "hardware" is not damaged and the person will not turn into a vegetable, unless of course the cure causes brain damage (your HDD and processor are still working even after the virus, unless the removal included breaking them).Hmm... There is nothing in the UFOPaedia articles I've read thus far, that says anything about the nervous system of the host becoming infected with the agent. In fact, aside from a vague hint in the Storyline » A New Twist (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Storyline/A_New_Twist), about some "infected tissues", there is no clear statement about what type of tissues, aside from the blood, this agent may permeate. Hence the reason why I raised it as a question...
And as in my original post, most of this is speculation mixed in with my logic.
Here's a though....let's say the alien mode of travel requires a certain setup-time. Maybe it's not as fast. Maybe their drive is slower the bigger the ship is (thus making bigger ships arrive later plausaible)?Yes, perhaps... But that still leaves the story struggling with some of its fundamental plot points - like the aliens' "need" to invade Earth... And it will also cause other changes to be considered in the storyline - like either making the XVI a lot younger (thus still expanding in a rather "virgin" Galaxy), or much, MUCH older than currently stated - in order to keep it consistent. Plus, I have to say this, I'm not very enthusiastic about throwing yet another "warp-gate" type thing in there, which a) has been done already many times, and b) brings its own assortment of issues. I know, I know... You've only suggested it as a mere possibility, not as a fully usable plot device, with all kinks worked out. :) I just pointed out how I believe it'll affect the storyline, and what I generally think of it, at a first glance.
Or they need to build a gate of some kind and the alien forces we encounter are just a scouting force?
Then the goal of the game would be to destroy the gate and stop an all-out invasion.
Again, a few possible solutions.
As far as the storyline is concerned....anything that can be modded is fixable. Text description of research, weapons and story can all be changed. If Winter doesn't want a better story, we can make one ourselves.I know, and the thought of coming up with an alternate, fully original (well, in the sense of "disparate from the official storyline" - I don't delude myself thinking I could "hatch up" something never heard of before :P) storyline had crossed my mind, even if only briefly.
That's why I'm more concerned of the hard-coded, mechanical things that might be left out.
I'm thinking of ways to fixing the story issues with as little changes as possible. the path of least resistance.I understand that. But since there is absolutely no interest in fixing anything (I'm talking about the current, "official" storyline, of course), why bother coming up with any solutions at all? :)
If you want to go beyond that, there's countless solutions.
Why are the aliens attacking Earth? They are forced to. Or they want to.I'm sorry, but this is not exactly a "fix" to the current storyline; it is proposing a completely different storyline to root out all discrepancies, and thus it opposes your own "minimal rework" philosophy you stated earlier. It also gives me the impression there may not be a way to correct the current storyline, without significant rework... :(
If forced, by what or whom? The virus? Some mastermind behind it?
You can turn the virus into a tool of the villain, instead of the "villain". The possibilities are limitless.
Let's say race X was enslaved. Let's say they rebelled and created a virus that made their slavemasters into obedient zombies.Basicly, the XVII makes the target brain extreemly succeptable to psychic suggestion. Or it utterly destroys it, and the infected one is merely a puppet, with no hopes of recovery.
About the storyline - everything is text that can be edited. I believe you can change every line of dialogue, every description in the game.Pretty much so, but I wasn't referring to *just* the text/article resources. There is also other content (models, AI, mission types, game progression etc. etc.) that might be severely impacted by the storyline. If any such content was built directly into the game engine, then modifying it might become very difficult, at best...
You can effectively change the whole storyline.
The "galactic power can't crush Earth" thing can be solved by reducing the size of the alien empire.
It doesn't have to engulf whole galaxies to be a threat to Earth.
Furthermore, by spreading the aliens out more, or messing with their mode of travel, communications and such, you can make the invasion buildup far more believable.
All the issues with the storyline can be fixed, given some time and creativity.
But will they?
Yeah. It can be made originating in Alpha Centauri. It would be a fine twist. This time they come to us, as a whole mined-out system wide nomadic alien trailer ship
Uuh... Was that sarcasm or is my detector too sensitive?
Anyway, while even a single huge system would make a good budding empire, I don't think they could find that many species in just that area.
The ridiculousness of the alien mothership and galactic conquest and exploitation has been addressed, so I won't touch it. I will say that it's incredibly at odds with the highly realistic detailed description in the UFOpedia, as well as the discrepancy in genres (horror in an RTS setting).Correction: That particular issue with the currently sanctioned storyline has been pointed out (quite a few times, actually -- and by several members), but it was never addressed. Hence, it is *still* an issue... One which I'm firmly convinced by now it will never be addressed by the authors.
<1> The fundamental difference in viewpoint can be used to explain the 'invasion'. The 'hive mind' sees Humanity as a new kid on the block and wants to get to know us better, just so happens that that means assimilation. <2> Second, there's no reason the Aliens would want to colonize earth: they are space faring, with the resources of the Asteroid belt, you could build a ring of space habitats that have literally hundreds of thousands of times the surface area of the Earth, all of which it totally usable (unlike the Earth's which has a lot of extremes). In this scenario, the alien's invasion of Earth is just a sideshow, while they colonize the system bu building space habitats.<1> Hmm... Sorry, I'm not convinced; "We'll assimilate you in order to learn about you (and bring us closer to perfection)" sounds too Borg-ish to me. It has (obviously) been done before...
Correction: That particular issue with the currently sanctioned storyline has been pointed out (quite a few times, actually -- and by several members), but it was never addressed. Hence, it is *still* an issue... One which I'm firmly convinced by now it will never be addressed by the authors.
<1> Hmm... Sorry, I'm not convinced; "We'll assimilate you in order to learn about you (and bring us closer to perfection)" sounds too Borg-ish to me. It has (obviously) been done before...
<2> I'm not sure I follow you through; nobody said anything about colonising Earth. XVI's intent is, as far as the current story goes, to acquire more hosts and possibly 'strip-mine' the planet -- with the former being clearly the primary objective: More hosts. That's why I'm uncertain what you meant: Are you criticising this position? Offering an 'alternate story', perhaps? ...
I won't be quoting the rest of your post. Whilst I'm still a bit confused about what you're trying to do here, I'll assume you are in fact proposing an alternate storyline (seems like a sensible assumption); unfortunately, I can already see some major issues developing in here as well -- mind you, their 'extent and severity' depend largely of how much of the current story you're keeping in the background. Short list of them below:
- Two things: First, no species gets to be dominant without first overcoming its competitors. Natural selection is a very natural, very real mechanism. In other words, XVI would not have gotten a (strong) hold on the entire Galaxy if it wouldn't have succeeded against the opposition (starting with its own creators). Hence, you cannot imply that XVI, being a 'cooperation-oriented' entity, has a poor grasp on the concept of competition; such claim would be invalid. -- assuming XVI's background story still stands (i.e. the 'hive-mind' is already number-one in the whole of Milky Way, when the game commences);
- How would you justify a (rather sudden) interest in diplomacy, on behalf of XVI?
- 'Good old-fashioned radio waves' have a major disadvantage, story-wise. They can be easily detected, even with today's technology; radio waves are something *we* have a pretty good understanding of. It'll make identifying any XVI hosts dead-easy: if a person has the same electromagnetic profile as a mobile network relay, then he/she is surely infected ! :)
- NO!! One cannot ignore or downrate the necessity of having (*some* form of) FTL propulsion capability, in a story that involves Galactic exploration/conquest. There *must* be a very good reason why FTL drives seem to appear so often in works of science-fiction, regardless of media. Think about this very carefully: our Galaxy is huge, of almost incomprehensible size; the distances any space faring race would have to travel between neighboring stars are incredible; several generations could easily succeed aboard such a spacecraft -- from a human perspective. In order to be able to negotiate such distances within a more palatable, human-like timeframe, one is forced to resort to a plot device such as an FTL drive... Not to mention that, should XVI be lacking such means of locomotion, then the whole Galaxy-wide dominance would be out the door as well.
That's about it for now, with more to come... Meanwhile , please continue to expand and refine your 'alternate story'. ;)
I apologise. It seems I'm not wearing my good manners tonight: WELCOME to the UFO:AI Forums ! ;)
* Second, it would be tactically unsound (more appropriately, it would be *utterly stupid*) to engage an unknown enemy in a direct assault. Again, in order to rise to absolute dominance, XVI is likely to have fought several wars (and obviously won all of them). Hence, the concept of 'data gathering / reconnaissance missions' and tactics such as 'probing enemy defences before striking' couldn't possibly be beyond it.I'll post these two excerpts from a decent article about engaging a superior force. As I suspect you may not be from this planet and may not understand human nature and the mind of a fundamentalist/freedom fighter.
The overarching strategy to counter a superior force is the idea of a war of a thousand pin pricks. That is the superior force's material and organization, and its underlying bureaucracy and logistics are very costly. Being costly means that the superior can not necessarily exist in the field as long as the inferior force or endure the political outcomes of such a drawn out war. The inferior force using its speed, adaptability, avoidance of direct confrontation, and its ability to not only strike on the superior force on the field but also its underlying organization at the time and place it chooses means that the inferior force will always have the advantage.
In conclusion, as the world becomes "flatter," that is money, information, and small arms are easier to acquire by individuals and small groups the overall nature of warfare has become more asymmetrical. Look at the defining conflicts and violent moments of our time: the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, 9/11, the Mumbai attacks or the war in Gaza, all these are linked via the usage of asymmetrical warfare or its components. It is important to realize that war, now more than ever, is not about technical superiority but each sides ability to adapt and evolve to be "successful" given its context.
* NO!! One cannot ignore or downrate the necessity of having (*some* form of) FTL propulsion capability, in a story that involves Galactic exploration/conquest. There *must* be a very good reason why FTL drives seem to appear so often in works of science-fiction, regardless of media. Think about this very carefully: our Galaxy is huge, of almost incomprehensible size; the distances any space faring race would have to travel between neighboring stars are incredible; several generations could easily succeed aboard such a spacecraft -- from a human perspective. In order to be able to negotiate such distances within a more palatable, human-like timeframe, one is forced to resort to a plot device such as an FTL drive... Not to mention that, should XVI be lacking such means of locomotion, then the whole Galaxy-wide dominance would be out the door as well.Yes there is a good reason why Sci-fi writers like to speal of FTL drives, because it is an established literary means of transport. There are many other ways that the aliens could travel from point to point, but FTL is the simplest and easiest for readers to both understand and grasp.
Since we are dealing in science fiction and not science fact, all things are possible. [...]Wrong. If 'all things are possible' as you put it, then you're talking about a work of fiction, a fantasy, and not *SCIENCE*-fiction.
I'll post these two excerpts from a decent article about engaging a superior force. As I suspect you may not be from this planet and may not understand human nature and the mind of a fundamentalist/freedom fighter.OK, there are a few things I'd like to say here:
(Smiley) OK my point here would be thus: It is called subversion. [...]Again, you have missed my point completely, and went way off on a tangent. Try reading my post one more time... Carefully.
Yes there is a good reason why Sci-fi writers like to speal of FTL drives, because it is an established literary means of transport. There are many other ways that the aliens could travel from point to point, but FTL is the simplest and easiest for readers to both understand and grasp.Oh, actually there aren't that many ways... And there's nothing either simple or easy about grasping the physics behind them. By the way, 'Faster Than Light (FTL) travel' is more of a generic term, covering any number of various different/related concepts and speculations -- including that of 'traversable wormholes' you are describing (from the Stargate series). It is also a misnomer, in that whilst it implies the use of superluminal speeds, most methods described as 'FTL travel/propulsion' do not propose such a blatant breach of special relativity.
We must not forget that XVI is at least 1,000,000 years ahead of us, and the original host life form was how many millions ahead before infection?Really?! Why would you think that, exactly? I mean, you seem to imply a certain disparity between the XVI (which should really be perceived as a 'network of minds') and its infected hosts, for which I fail to see any grounding reasons. So, would you care to explain yourself?
Although the downfall of a hive mind is that even though the host mind has fantastic technological advancement, it does not always follow that XVI will know how correlate and catagorise that information for further study or use. [...]
[...] XVI will be forever doomed to roam the universe resource stripping and assimilating. Much like the decadent borg.LOL!! I'm... really not sure how 'decadent' applies to the Borg. Would you mind enlightening me?
Wrong. If 'all things are possible' as you put it, then you're talking about a work of fiction, a fantasy, and not *SCIENCE*-fiction.
And for your information, Jules Verne's work is well over a century old, to date. It is obvious that science has made quite a bit of progress since then...OK, there are a few things I'd like to say here:Thus Jules Verne is valid for my argument, writing NO in capitals doesn't get your point across only facts do that.
It isn't my job to prove anything I am disproving your points.
- What's your point? What are you trying to prove here?
http://tinyurl.com/6fm8n64
- Can you provide a link to the full article, rather than some out-of-context snips?
Hahaha... Dude now you know why the US or any modern army will never win a war against 'mindless terrorists'. Hmm, Vietnam, the US's greatest failure against mindless terrorists, Iraq another war agains mindless terrorists that the US hasn't won btw, Afghanistan oh wait more mindless terrorists. Again no win situation. You have the technology but not the will it is that simple. I could cite more just to incite your capital NO's.
- I hope you realise the discussion was about Military Tactics, not mindless terrorist attacks...
Again, you have missed my point completely, and went way off on a tangent. Try reading my post one more time... Carefully.Oh, actually there aren't that many ways... And there's nothing either simple or easy about grasping the physics behind them. By the way, 'Faster Than Light (FTL) travel' is more of a generic term, covering any number of various different/related concepts and speculations -- including that of 'traversable wormholes. It is also a misnomer, in that whilst it implies the use of superluminal speeds, most methods described as 'FTL travel/propulsion' do not propose such a blatant breach of special relativity.Really?!Again read the meaning of Science Fiction and explain that to me again. In Science Fiction of which this game is a part of. I may travel ten times the speed of light without the need for a special suit while in my underpants holding both the morning paper and the afternoon edition of the same day at the same time. Because in Science Fiction I am permitted to break the laws of gravity, physics, relativity all while reading war and peace. In your way of putting answers I'll answer it thus: NO SCIENCE FICTION is not (always) science fact.
Why would you think that, exactly? I mean, you seem to imply a certain disparity between the XVI (which should really be perceived as a 'network of minds') and its infected hosts, for which I fail to see any grounding reasons.SCIENCE FICTION
So, would you care to explain yourself?No, I need only explain my answers
LOL!! I'm... really not sure how 'decadent' applies to the Borg. Would you mind enlightening me?I'll leave you this gem from Oscar Wilde: "Classicism is the subordination of the parts to the whole; decadence is the subordination of the whole to the parts."
Why, during the Chines's war, New Delhi was destroy ?! New Delhi is the main town of India. India have the nuclear weapons.
The story talk about a nuclear civil's war, not a nuclear war.
Second (small) point, on the global map, in South-America, everything is purple (= The Revolutionary Countries); but since few decade, there is a European's "country". And, I can not imaging the Europeen lost this territory (4-5% of South America), because we use this "country" for launch more than 60% of satellits of the world.
For this kind of video game, maybe it is important ... or not.