UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Sounds and Music => Topic started by: Destructavator on June 21, 2007, 02:23:27 pm
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I noticed that air-to-air combat is being worked on and might be implemented soon (from another part of the forum) - Do you guys already have any music for the air combat yet?
If not, would you be interested in something kinda like the original XCOM combat music? I remember the tune - it had a strong beat and took off quickly, although it was the exact same tune every time (something we wouldn't have to do, it would be nice to have multiple tracks).
I don't have any new completed tracks right now, but I do have some partially finished ideas I could put together that might work, although it would come out with real guitars and instruments instead of the synthetic sounds from the original XCOM.
BTW, while I'm on this topic, what will the air combat look like anyways? I remember the original game had short and simple fights compared to the ground missions which could get lengthy.
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I played Ufo AFTERMATH. Its only good feature was the air combat music, which was powerful rock music fitting for pilots, and exciting video footages.
Anyone interested in using some heavy metal combined with fast paced action movies?
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The interceptions in Aftermath were a disaster. The movies were pointless and the outcome of the interception was completely random. I don't want anything like that to be used in UFO:AI.
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I know this is an old thread (almost a year - wow, I've been here quite a while!), but it seems relevant now with the developing air interceptions in the SVN version - I've noticed the whole zoom-in thing going on (very cool, BTW), and if it's not too much trouble to code a music change when zooming in, I believe I can make some time in the next few days to come up with some music tracks from some ideas I can think of that would be good soundtracks for air combat.
...And of course, if any of the other musicians here are interested as well, I'd encourage you to offer tracks as well - I remember from the original XCOM that the old game had only one air combat soundtrack, which got tiresome to listen to over and over again. If this idea is possible to be implemented, I'd think that multiple tracks would be good (for variation), rather than having just one track like the old game.
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Whent testing the combat zoom I noticed the geoscape music starting over. Possibly stevenjackson already added support for a music change.
Or maybe it's just a bug.
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I'd prefer something eerie and tense that simutaneously conveys a sense of urgency and action. The interception score from Terror From The Deep is a good example.
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Honestly - and this is just my personal opinion - I liked the first XCOM interception tune better, I just wished they had more than one so it wasn't always the same exact tune over and over again.
I do agree that it should be something with "urgency and action," perhaps something faster paced than the geoscape music. I've already got several basic ideas brewing, but it'll take a few days to see how they come out in a track when I can make the time.
In the meantime, if anyone else is also interested in making such a track, by all means go for it. Multiple tracks would avoid the problem I mentioned in the first original game.
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I agree. I preferred the upbeat X-COM 1 tune over the one in TFTD as well.
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X-Com's interception music was too upbeat, and broke with the ambiance of menace and dread that was central to the series' atmosphere. TFTD's by contrast, was a perfect fit with those themes.
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I thought part of the whole point of the interception music in the original was to temporarily break the theme to jump to fast-paced action. Then again, I don't know what went on in the original XCOM developer's heads.
Also, I'm not aware of any rules that say we absolutely have to follow in the footsteps of the original XCOM/UFO, or that we're required to stick to one monotonous theme without change when things happen in gameplay.
I can see we differ in opinion a little bit here, but I'd suggest that rather than debating such points we wait until some people offer some tracks (myself and anyone else who's interested) and just see what sounds good and seems to fit in the (UFO: AI) project.
I can also tell you as a musician that when composing a creative work, it's better to not try to limit yourself to any self-imposed rules, but rather to go with what sounds good, because in music "what sounds good" is much better than "what fits within rules I made for myself."
Sorry, I'm not trying to start a big argument - why don't we wait until some proposed tracks are ready?
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My own take on the inconsistancy of the interception music in the first installment is that the flavour and ambiance of the first game was not as completely defined as it was in TFTD, being more tentative and ambiguous. I think it can be fairly said that UFO, overall, wasn't as eerie and forboding as its immediate sequel.
In any case I don't necessarily want tracks that are consistant with the music of the X-Com series, so much as those that are consistant with the atmospheric themes of the game.
In any case your points are noted though. A range of desired styles has been defined, and debate should wait until tracks respective to these have been composed.
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I don't think X-COM's interception track was 'upbeat' per se. To me it was pretty tense and conveyed a sense of danger and uncertainty, but the use of the recurring main chord of the "X-COM theme" gave me a feeling that this was me and my guys getting into some damned action, despite the abstract nature of the game's interceptions.
What I would really like is for us to define a signature 'PHALANX theme' and then see where we can work that into the game's current and future tracks, including interceptions.
Where our particular interception music is concerned, it seems to me like a good idea to alternate the music based on your chances of winning. If you've got the numbers and the weapons, make it nice and punchy. If you're engaging a superior force, make it evil and foreboding, etc. etc.
Regards,
Winter
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Hmm, I don't know about that. There would be a need for extra routines to judge that, and since it depends on a lot of factors it may not be easy to figure out a way that comes up with an accurate prediction. On top of that, players might use the music as an indication of when to pull back.
I'm all for a recurring PHALANX theme though.
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I'll keep these things in mind.
I've already got some ideas that might work, I'll just need a little time to record, track, and upload them.
I like the "recurring theme" and "action" ideas, I believe I can work off of that.
Part of what takes time is the fact that although a musician can dream up a musical idea that they think sounds great, often when it is actually implemented the final product plays back very different than how they imagined it. I know, I've written music on computers for over 20 years, since before many of the DAWs that exist like they do today started coming into the hands of the personal home computer user. In the last several years the technology has really taken off!
EDIT: Regarding customizing the playback for the odds of winning/losing, what would really be cool would be music that dynamically changed each phrase* according to how the fight went on, although I'd imagine it might be a headache for the coders. What could be an easier compromise would be a little victory tune if the player wins, or losing tune if not, right before going back to the main geoscape view zooming out. Personally, I'd rather concentrate on getting some basic tunes for combat that work, first, before adding complications.
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The facility is already there to add music, just a matter of finding something suitable.
Stevenjackson
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EDIT: Regarding customizing the playback for the odds of winning/losing, what would really be cool would be music that dynamically changed each phrase* according to how the fight went on, although I'd imagine it might be a headache for the coders. What could be an easier compromise would be a little victory tune if the player wins, or losing tune if not, right before going back to the main geoscape view zooming out. Personally, I'd rather concentrate on getting some basic tunes for combat that work, first, before adding complications.
Rather than absolute winning or losing tunes, I'd rather have short musical stings when a friendly or enemy plane goes down. Again, not so easy to implement.
Regards,
Winter
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Rather than absolute winning or losing tunes, I'd rather have short musical stings when a friendly or enemy plane goes down. Again, not so easy to implement.
That's actually what I meant by "phrase" (sorry, I didn't explain what "phrase" means in musical terminology, it refers to short groups of measures, kinda like words are grouped into a sentence, and they are typically repeated).
From the composing / recording end, it would be easy to break up a track into phrases or segments, although for the coders, they would have to make the game keep track of playing a set order or sequence of such segments in an order that can change when an aircraft goes down (for example, a UFO goes down, and a "happy" or "victory" segment comes up next before returning to the main sequence) and it would get complicated quickly. On the other hand, if all that work was done, yes it would be very cool, dynamic music that responds to what happens in the game.
And an update: I actually got a "rough draft" track uploaded to my website server, although I'm not fully confident it would work:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1g.ogg
The guitars need work as I only did quick, rough takes and was also making up the tune while I was playing it. It certainly isn't a finished product, but if anyone likes even part of it, I can bring out and develop that part and axe the rest.
This track is just one of several ideas - I'm working on some others that have a different mood and feel.
Again, I'm not completely happy with this one, although on the plus side it's very loop-able in playback.
This particular track was made with the "glory/off-to-battle/save-the-day" type of idea when I started it.
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That's actually what I meant by "phrase" (sorry, I didn't explain what "phrase" means in musical terminology, it refers to short groups of measures, kinda like words are grouped into a sentence, and they are typically repeated).
From the composing / recording end, it would be easy to break up a track into phrases or segments, although for the coders, they would have to make the game keep track of playing a set order or sequence of such segments in an order that can change when an aircraft goes down (for example, a UFO goes down, and a "happy" or "victory" segment comes up next before returning to the main sequence) and it would get complicated quickly. On the other hand, if all that work was done, yes it would be very cool, dynamic music that responds to what happens in the game.
And an update: I actually got a "rough draft" track uploaded to my website server, although I'm not fully confident it would work:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1g.ogg
The guitars need work as I only did quick, rough takes and was also making up the tune while I was playing it. It certainly isn't a finished product, but if anyone likes even part of it, I can bring out and develop that part and axe the rest.
This track is just one of several ideas - I'm working on some others that have a different mood and feel.
Again, I'm not completely happy with this one, although on the plus side it's very loop-able in playback.
This particular track was made with the "glory/off-to-battle/save-the-day" type of idea when I started it.
I love everything in that track except for the drum intro and the short drum stings at the end of each phrase, specifically the sting that you use for the entire first half. Drum stings can sound ugly even when done by the best bands, and here they sound awful and artificial. You seem to use them a lot in the tracks you've done for UFO:AI and they always drag the whole thing down a little bit.
Also, the guitars right after the intro get a little bit repetitive before the lead kicks in. One or two fewer phrases there would be better.
On a more positive note, it has the action-y vibe, the urgency, and even a touch of upbeatness here and there where the lead guitar goes high. The main riff is a little bit dark, but I like that. It would certainly be good to create an oppressive athmosphere.
Using the music in phrases would be awesome but I think it would probably be too much overhead for the coders to deal with.
Regards,
Winter
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OK, keeping these points in mind, I'd be happy to work on developing this soundtrack, I'll see what I can do with it - thanks for the feedback!
The drums would be easy to change (thanks for pointing that out), and I have a few ideas about making the guitars sound less over-repetitive - as well as recording better takes and polishing it in general.
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I love everything in that track except for the drum intro and the short drum stings at the end of each phrase, specifically the sting that you use for the entire first half. Drum stings can sound ugly even when done by the best bands, and here they sound awful and artificial. You seem to use them a lot in the tracks you've done for UFO:AI and they always drag the whole thing down a little bit.
Also, the guitars right after the intro get a little bit repetitive before the lead kicks in. One or two fewer phrases there would be better.
On a more positive note, it has the action-y vibe, the urgency, and even a touch of upbeatness here and there where the lead guitar goes high. The main riff is a little bit dark, but I like that. It would certainly be good to create an oppressive athmosphere.
Using the music in phrases would be awesome but I think it would probably be too much overhead for the coders to deal with.
I wholly agree. The music takes a good while to start up, but air combat will pretty much be in full-swing from the beginning. So if you cut to the chase faster I think it will fit the purpose a lot better.
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Here, is this a little better?
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1i.ogg
I shortened it a bit, I've realized that air combat really shouldn't last too long, and if by chance it does it isn't any disaster for the tune to loop and play again.
You may notice in this version how the main melody is shortened at the end - I could also do this for the first part that repeats twice, if you guys think it would be better that way.
I didn't get to the drums yet, although it's in my personal TODO for this tune.
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It's a lot better if you ask me. I've tried looping it on itself, and I think that works out just fine.
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Do you hear any other parts of it that you think need attention?
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New track comment: You know what? I'm putting this on my regular playlist. Although I do look forward to the drum edit. ;)
It's already near-perfect for our air interceptions, and I highly encourage you to finish it.
Regards,
Winter
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One slight niggle that stands out on repeated listenings -- the very first phrase transition where the main guitar riff kicks in sounds strange and abrupt, a little bit clunky so you can tell where it was edited together.
Regards,
Winter
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...and I highly encourage you to finish it.
Will do, I'm currently uploading a new version.
You know what? I'm putting this on my regular playlist.
Glad you like it, but a word of caution: Don't over-play it over and over again excessively, or you may get it stuck in your head and become sick of it.
One slight niggle that stands out on repeated listenings...
My goodness, I fear I may already be too late... :o
...the very first phrase transition where the main guitar riff kicks in sounds strange and abrupt, a little bit clunky so you can tell where it was edited together.
I've worked on this in the latest version - the original had many short clips slammed together with editing, the latest one I'm uploading now has longer, solid clips that aren't broken up and I think sound a little better.
Ah! It's done uploading:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1j.ogg
I didn't test the link, please know if it didn't render or upload right, as I myself am now a little bit sick of it from working on it and playing it back over and over again in my DAW software. Now I need a break...
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I love the track, but to be completely honest, think that it'd be a lot more at home in a mega man game than UFO:AI.
To be more specific, it is entirely inconsistant in style with songs I feel to be definitive of Ufo:AI's atmosphere (current or desired) such as Alexfightmare and Psymong03 (as much as I like existing songs like Dawn, I have to admit, they don't belong).
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very well done song - what was the license again you release your work under?
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oops! Once again, I forgot to attach a license. Hang on a sec while I hop over to the CC website...
OK, will Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License work? If not, I can pick another one.
Regarding the actual track, I'm still polishing a few parts here and there. Also, as I said in the past, it would be nice to have more than one track, although I'll finish this one first before working on another one, although as I also said, any of the other musicians here are welcome to give it a shot as well.
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OK, this one I'm kinda proud of:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1k.ogg
I did some changes on how the drums sound, hopefully they sound less artificial now.
I also did some more work on the guitars, and added a slide to the end of one of the dual-lead parts to make it less monotonous. If you guys think the slide doesn't work, I can take it back out.
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OK, this one I'm kinda proud of:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1k.ogg
I did some changes on how the drums sound, hopefully they sound less artificial now.
I also did some more work on the guitars, and added a slide to the end of one of the dual-lead parts to make it less monotonous. If you guys think the slide doesn't work, I can take it back out.
I'm of two minds about the slide. It works for what it is, a connection between the phrases, but because of the abrupt 'blip' between the continuing note and the slide it ends up sounding strange and out of place. You'd have to merge that note and the slide together into a more coherent whole before it would really work. I don't know if I'm communicating this correctly, but at the moment it sounds like the first guitar is grinding to a sudden halt and a second guitarist is stepping in to do the slide, maybe a little bit too hard and too early, so they collide and play over the top of each other. It doesn't sound like the same instrument and player all the way through.
Excellent work on the drums, they certainly get my seal of approval now.
Regards,
Winter
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Glad the drums work now, I think they sound better myself.
I'll work on the slide and see what I can do with it. I might take it back out, or, I have an idea or two to do something different that might work.
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I tried to re-work the slide, couldn't quite get it to come out right with the dual lead guitars for some reason, so I simply took it back out. Oh well, it didn't absolutely have to be in there.
Here's the latest:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1L.ogg
IMO I'd say this one is pretty much done now, so unless any of the devs disagree, I'd go with this one, otherwise I can make any additional changes in the next few days, as right now I'm a bit burned out from hearing it so many times...
...And for those of you who want a lossless (maximum quality) copy to add to your personal playlist and happen to be FLAC freaks:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1L.flac
If this is to be the final one, let me know if the CC license I picked doesn't work, and I'll choose another. Please also feel free to re-name the file, I didn't give this one any particular title.
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A few more changes:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1M.ogg
If this one doesn't seem any better, feel free to go with the previous one I posted, whichever one is judged to be the best version.
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Its good, though I have not tried it in-game.
I am not such a fan of the guitar first starting around 35s in.
I do like the tense plucked bit around 1:56.
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Hmmmm...
Well, here is another alternative version, with a different FX patch on the guitars from my DAW:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1N_B.ogg
This version doesn't use the modeled MT-2 Distortion Stompbox present in the previous version, but instead uses a Tube Driver FX.
In other words (for those who aren't into electric guitar, amps, etc.) this version makes the guitars sound the way they do with different methods, and therefore have a different sound to them. IMO this version sounds a little less digital.
Then again, it's subjective as to what the best sound is - although some sounds are more popular than others.
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i like the cleaner sound of the guitar.
that chord progression, just grates a bit, though (40 seconds from the start and 47 seconds from the start). (are they diads?).
it does need that kind of refrain there. but that particular progression does not do it for me.
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Well the tune isn't set in stone - I can certainly re-work parts of it. Regarding the refrain, that part actually had the least work done on it compared to the rest - I could replace it with something a little different, I'll see what I can come up with.
Thanks for the feedback, especially the specifics.
In the meantime, I also started an alternate track in another thread, although it isn't anywhere near as well developed yet.
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Hmmmm...
Well, here is another alternative version, with a different FX patch on the guitars from my DAW:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1N_B.ogg
This version doesn't use the modeled MT-2 Distortion Stompbox present in the previous version, but instead uses a Tube Driver FX.
In other words (for those who aren't into electric guitar, amps, etc.) this version makes the guitars sound the way they do with different methods, and therefore have a different sound to them. IMO this version sounds a little less digital.
Then again, it's subjective as to what the best sound is - although some sounds are more popular than others.
I actually prefer the other version, the more brassy guitar sound in this one doesn't really fit in as well with the rest of the track.
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1M.ogg is the one I support.
Regards,
Winter
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Well that explains it...
I found that the master tone knob on the output of my soundcard to my speakers/monitors and headphones was cranked far into the treble zone instead of centered where it should be - How on Earth did that happen!? Oh well, maybe I'll blame it on my pet cat...
Anyways, now that I can hear (and therefore mix) properly, I touched up the one Winter liked a tad, hopefully this can be a final one:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1P.ogg
and:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1P.flac
Depending on how good your ears are, you may or may not notice subtle differences between this one and "ERc1M"
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Well that explains it...
I found that the master tone knob on the output of my soundcard to my speakers/monitors and headphones was cranked far into the treble zone instead of centered where it should be - How on Earth did that happen!? Oh well, maybe I'll blame it on my pet cat...
Anyways, now that I can hear (and therefore mix) properly, I touched up the one Winter liked a tad, hopefully this can be a final one:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1P.ogg
and:
http://www.destructavator.com/public/ERc1P.flac
Depending on how good your ears are, you may or may not notice subtle differences between this one and "ERc1M"
Thumbs up, this is the one.
Regards,
Winter
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OK, I guess we can go with this one then, and again, please let me know if the CC license I picked doesn't work.