UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: sitters on May 26, 2007, 08:36:21 am
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OK People we need ideas for new symbols for the geoscape.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/simbole.jpg)
This is one I make before.
We need symbols for alien crash, terror missions, basis symbols etc..
If winter agreed with your idea, I model and texture the stuff, then we have fast ( i hope ) the new symbols.
Think about it, that it is for the geoscape.
So not to much detailed, because it get lost with the scaling.
Help us out guys. :)
Willem
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OK People we need ideas for new symbols for the geoscape.
This is one I make before.
We need symbols for alien crash, terror missions, basis symbols etc..
If winter agreed with your idea, I model and texture the stuff, then we have fast ( i hope ) the new symbols.
Think about it, that it is for the geoscape.
So not to much detailed, because it get lost with the scaling.
Current list:
Harvesting/Terror missions:
Icon as above, flag printed with a single bloodied Kerrblade.
UFO crash missions:
Crashed partly-buried UFO of appropriate type with bits of the UFO strewn about the crash site.
UFO landing missions:
Landed UFO of appropriate type.
Storyline missions:
Icon as above, black flag with yellow sunburst.
Generic missions:
Icon as above, flag printed with alien face from b_geobuttons.tga in base/pics/menu
Regards,
Winter
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Do you like this face for the flag winter ?
I cant see it very well on the button.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/face1.jpg)
And what colors of the arrows ( all the arrow have the same UV ),
and the ring ?
Willem
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maybe something this can fit well on the flag too.. (I didnt draw that)
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6394/hs_burth.gif
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I think generally a skull of some sort would make it more than obvious what the terror symbol stands for
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Do you like this face for the flag winter ?
I cant see it very well on the button.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/face1.jpg)
And what colors of the arrows ( all the arrow have the same UV ),
and the ring ?
Willem
I like the image, but I don't think it looks quite enough like our Tamans. Did you draw that, sitters?
The evil smile also doesn't really fit . . . A neutral expression would be more appropriate.
The arrow colours wouldn't be very important, they should just be neutral. White or blue, possibly yellow. Definitely not green or red.
Regards,
Winter
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I like the image, but I don't think it looks quite enough like our Tamans. Did you draw that, sitters?
The evil smile also doesn't really fit . . . A neutral expression would be more appropriate.
The arrow colours wouldn't be very important, they should just be neutral. White or blue, possibly yellow. Definitely not green or red.
Regards,
Winter
I understand you want the face of an Taman, I dint recognize the face on the button
I make an Taman. ;)
And Yea, I draw with an tablet and photo shop if it is organic stuff.
But not much, i am not very good in it ( very much layers and try outs, before I am happy with the result ).
Willem
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you created that yourself, too? nice work sitters - not only 3d artists, but even 2d artists - good to know :-D
http://ufoai.ninex.info/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7687#7687
sitters have a look here - there's a quick sketch of the taman
maybe that can help you to make some minor corrections to the head
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you created that yourself, too? nice work sitters - not only 3d artists, but even 2d artists - good to know :-D
head
No I am not an artist, just an hobbyist.
Here my best shot for the face on the flag.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/face2.jpg)
Willem
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nice - let's wait on winter's reply
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I like it, it's good. I'd be happy to see that on the flag.
Regards,
Winter
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I make the head an little bit longer, I think it is better.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/face3.jpg)
Willem
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I make the head an little bit longer, I think it is better.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/face3.jpg)
Willem
That makes the head look a bit too cone-shaped, I think. It looks wrong somehow. I preferred the other one.
Regards,
Winter
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OK here we have the symbol, I have used the old one with the smaller head.
If you like it winter I make the link.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/symbola.jpg)
Willem
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i don't know but i think the flag could be a little bit bigger - i have to see this in game to tell you more, so please export as a test. i think the image and the flag aren't very well visible when they are scaled down - but again, we have to see this on geoscape. i will post a screenshot as soon as i have the md2 - thanks again
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OK here we have the symbol, I have used the old one with the smaller head.
If you like it winter I make the link.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/symbola.jpg)
Willem
I agree with mattn, the flag could stand to be quite a bit bigger. The head should fit comfortably on there, without cutting off at the top or bottom. A black background may not be the best option for this icon, either. Maybe try the dark green of our usual menu backgrounds. That should play a bit nicer with the green glow of the alien head.
Regards,
Winter
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OK the flag is bigger, and the background is dark green.
Remember you see the face now 3D on the flag. ;)
Try it out. :)
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/symbolaa.jpg)
The link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/symbola.zip
Willem
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the tga is broken for me - i can't open it - sorry
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the tga is broken for me - i can't open it - sorry
I replace the .tga and add an .bmp file.
I think the TGA was 32 bit, now its 24 bit
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/symbola.zip
Willem
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(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/ufo53.jpg)
(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/ufo54.jpg)
(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/ufo55.jpg)
(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/ufo56.jpg)
(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/ufo57.jpg)
(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/ufo58.jpg)
I modified the last three screenshots to have a red skin - imo it's better visible on the geoscape
opinions?
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Yea, always afraid of that, all details get lost.
In my opinion , better to use symbols like close circles, stars or what ever with an image on the top.
Willem
Edit : can you set the transparency of models ?
Then you can make some of pop up from the surface of the geoscape, from small to big with on the top information or an image.
And when it is transparent then it looks good I think.
Something what they use for airplanes, but then 3D.
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Sitters is right - I think the idea of flags should be dropped completely. Icons representing various events should be simple and easy to spot on the Geoscape.
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yes, the flags are bad for top down view - i tried only the circle and the arrows - and maybe switch the color via different skins for the icon - it looks good imo - but i don't have a clean md2 and a clean skin
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yes, the flags are bad for top down view - i tried only the circle and the arrows - and maybe switch the color via different skins for the icon - it looks good imo - but i don't have a clean md2 and a clean skin
Agreed, the flags don't work. Here's an idea -- use the circles from the original icon, but fill in the centre and texture that with the individual mission icons. Then they'd be facing directly upwards and be a lot more visible.
The inner circle would need to be enlarged a bit, but I think it would turn out really nice.
Regards,
Winter
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The outer circle seems a bit too big IMHO. I kinda like the size of the symbols that are currently being used, but that's just me.
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Try this one out, maybe it is better.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym1.jpg)
Link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym1.zip
Willem
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Try this one out, maybe it is better.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym1.jpg)
Link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym1.zip
Willem
I like it, but could you put the arrows and the colour scheme from the original icon back in?
Regards,
Winter
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i tried it on the geoscape - looks ways better (because the icon is now visible) - but i agree with the arrows - put them please back in
then i will commit and it can be taken as final
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I think an intermediate model like the following would be great (I just used gimp to change sitters picture, I don't have any model to give) :
(http://kracken.gp.free.fr/permanent/symbola.jpg)
This would probably need to be a little bit thicker (higher), so that we can see it from the side.
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I think an intermediate model like the following would be great (I just used gimp to change sitters picture, I don't have any model to give) :
(http://kracken.gp.free.fr/permanent/symbola.jpg)
This would probably need to be a little bit thicker (higher), so that we can see it from the side.
That's what we're aiming for, except we want the inner circle to be one whole disc (i.e. disc inside a circle, instead of disc inside a circle inside a circle).
Regards,
Winter
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I have followed this thread for a while now, and when I saw the screenshots of the "icon" on the geoscape I just wanteed to say what I thought...
I my opinoin the "icons/symbols" present in 2.1.1 are more than enough to tell me what is going on. The little red cross for reported alien activity. A red square could be a Alien Base.
I think theese icons should be simple and remain its size independent on how much you zoom in the geoscape. They do not need to be in 3D. Keep them in 2D.
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I[n] my opinoin the "icons/symbols" present in 2.1.1 are more than enough to tell me what is going on. The little red cross for reported alien activity. A red square could be a Alien Base.
I think theese icons should be simple and remain its size independent on how much you zoom in the geoscape. They do not need to be in 3D. Keep them in 2D.
Enough, yes, but not pretty. It's the little things that you can make you feel like you made progress, even if you've altered 20,000 lines of code, a simple 'ooooooh' on the screen can feel like you've finally made some progress.
I don't care which way they go with it, personally. I think the size is a bit much, overall, when dealing with nearby events (crash a UFO near a terror site that's outside your/their base...). I'm sure that will be tweaked however, with more detail visible when you zoom in but you're able to select things intelligently.
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But thats also a thing, I dont want to have to zoom in on the geoscape to pick a mission or to know what kind of mission it is. It should be clearly represented in all zoom levels..
Alteast in my humble opinion.. :)
I actually think Geoscape is one of the more completed part if the game, atleast in the missiontypes available. I do want to be able to intercept UFO:s. Have real crashsites with randomly generated maps.
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I actually think Geoscape is one of the more completed part if the game, atleast in the missiontypes available. I do want to be able to intercept UFO:s. Have real crashsites with randomly generated maps.
this is already in huge parts implemented - but during this work Kracken also fixed the 3d geoscape - so the need for 3d models arrised with that. the 2d geoscape will keep the normal mission symbol and the normal base symbol. the models are only for 3d geoscape - and this will always be an option
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Ah, Ok I get it :)
Pherhaps there should be two kind of Icons. One when you are quite zoomed out. This one should be quite simple, and one when you zoom in closer. Both icons should indicate what kind of mission it is.
On the screenshots I saw on the earlier page, the icons looks extremely large and covers hughe areas of the map.
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Here we go again. ;)
Try this one.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym2.jpg)
Link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym2.zip
Willem
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Here we go again. ;)
Try this one.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym2.jpg)
Link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym2.zip
Willem
Very nice. I have only one more suggestion: Make the arrows smaller and shorter. We don't want a huge circle which creates lots of empty space -- just something small to make the centre disc stand out, a bit like your previous model, with the arrows in between to give it a bit of character.
Regards,
Winter
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winter you drive me crazy. :)
Try this one ?
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym3.jpg)
Link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym3.zip
Willem
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Here we have one with the kerrblade (Maybe one times redesign that thing).
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sim4.jpg)
Link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym4.zip
Willem
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IMO The color of the round shape with the Kerrblade on it should be different. Otherwise both symbols (the one with alien face and the Kerrblade) will look the same at first glance.
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winter you drive me crazy. :)
Try this one ?
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym3.jpg)
Link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sym3.zip
Willem
Works for me! It's very nice, we should use it.
As for the Kerrblade, please move it so that the blade falls across the icon diagonally, with the tip at the top right. Perhaps a large blood spatter (as if seen from directly above) in the bottom right corner.
A different background colour is definitely a good idea. Try a deep, dark red-purple. Dark enough not to interfere with the colour of the blood.
Regards,
Winter
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ok, accepted as final - commited to trunk - thanks sitters
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Ok here the dark purple red version.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sim5.jpg)
Willem
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I'm not sure it works... I think all the Geoscape icons should be simplified to the max. Right now they look like thumbnails. You can see the purple dot but that's it. You cant really tell what sort of a symbol is located in the center. That Kerrblade is barely visible but changing the background color wont help.
I'd suggest getting rid of all the details from the texture of the center element of the icon. Use large shapes and a single color only. It will make the icons easy to distinguish from one another while keeping the original design of the symbols intact.
Sitters - sorry for messing with your pics without permission but that was the best way for me to illustrate my thoughts.
Here's an alternative design of the terror symbol.
(http://home.autocom.pl/bilinski/sim5b.jpg)
and here's why I think it would work better than the previous one:
(http://home.autocom.pl/bilinski/sim5c.jpg)
Even though the icon is small you can still tell that it's indicating a terror strike. The Kerrblades are still visible although they look like an 'x'. That's a minor issue though... and to tell you the truth, the purple color of the icon itself would do the trick as well.
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I'm not sure it works... I think all the Geoscape icons should be simplified to the max. Right now they look like thumbnails. You can see the purple dot but that's it. You cant really tell what sort of a symbol is located in the center. That Kerrblade is barely visible but changing the background color wont help.
I'd suggest getting rid of all the details from the texture of the center element of the icon. Use large shapes and a single color only. It will make the icons easy to distinguish from one another while keeping the original design of the symbols intact.
Sitters - sorry for messing with your pics without permission but that was the best way for me to illustrate my thoughts.
Here's an alternative design of the terror symbol.
(http://home.autocom.pl/bilinski/sim5b.jpg)
and here's why I think it would work better than the previous one:
(http://home.autocom.pl/bilinski/sim5c.jpg)
Even though the icon is small you can still tell that it's indicating a terror strike. The Kerrblades are still visible although they look like an 'x'. That's a minor issue though... and to tell you the truth, the purple color of the icon itself would do the trick as well.
I am fully agreed with you, I say it a long time ago, an symbol must be an symbol and have an very simple form and easy to recognize.
But the game is played by the rules of winter, maybe he likes your idea.
Willem
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I've been thinking hard about this, and I have to agree with you both, sitters and Blywulf. The idea I had isn't working, at least not for this icon, and I've been overcomplicating the icon design. Thanks for all the time you spent on it, sitters, and I'm sorry for making the job so difficult. I'll be getting a machine of my own again next week so I can start playing around with models and textures again to save you some frustration.
The glowing crossed Kerrblades are a nice idea, but I think they may be too hard to make out at the scales we're using for the geoscape. If I didn't know they were Kerrblades, I'm not sure I'd be able to make out what they were at all.
Let's simplify the design and get some ideas together. My new proposal is to reduce the image to a single white (not sure whether to keep the glow or just make it a silhouette) Kerrblade on a black background.
Regards,
Winter
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Yea, it is just an question of try it out what looks the best.
I have made some silhouettes, if you like it I give you an link for try it out.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/simbol2a.jpg)
Willem
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give me the link please, i will test them in-game and post screenshots - it's always hard to say without seeing them in-game
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give me the link please, i will test them in-game and post screenshots - it's always hard to say without seeing them in-game
The link :
http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/sim_ab.zip
Willem
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(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/syma.jpg)
(http://mattn.ninex.info/screenshots/symb.jpg)
imo they are good - opinions?
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If I may comment, the images look way to benign... There's no sense of urgency in them. Some blood dripping off the kerrblade perhaps?
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They're also far, far too large.
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I think adding blood to the symbols will again cause a problem with too much detail. Maybe changing the general colours will do something. How about replacing the pale yellow with a strong red?
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Mattn I think that the pciture on the map is a little much too big, if you scale it down by 40% it would look much better. (and phallanx would have to investigate a whole country for each tactical mission :wink: )
by the way the white alien face is cool
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They seem far too large for my taste. Perhaps you could try scaling them down and maybe removing the yellow ring/arrows.
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My own criticisms pretty much echo what has already been said.
The icons in addition to being scaled back dramatically, must be redone to communicate a sense of forboding and menace. Removal of the arrows and ring would be an excellent first step on this account.
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[Engage Script Kiddie mode]
Me Too!!!
[/engage]
Sorry, just putting my two cents in. Way to big, no menace... though I don't know how much menace an icon can really show, that's a matter of perspective. That stupid yellow pokemon is one of the cutest things in existence and can muster up a level of dread far beyond an alien I get to shoot at. The dread will come. :) (Oh... gods... a Terror mission...)
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I like both icons, but I think that colour-coordinating them would help in telling the different mission types apart. Giving them all black backgrounds would cause confusion and make the icons run together. The glowing kerrblade with black background is good, but we should give other missions more 'benign' background colours. I'd like to see how the silhouetted alien head looks on the old dark green background.
Perhaps diagonal warning stripes would make a good background for certain other mission types, such as base attacks.
Regards,
Winter
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but i don't want a too colorful geoscape - that would make it look like a kid painting program and not a serious game - imo
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So no polkadots and pretty ribon effects? aw...
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but i don't want a too colorful geoscape - that would make it look like a kid painting program and not a serious game - imo
I agree, and in my idea the icons tend to stick to darker, muted colours -- this will also enhance the gritty feel of the game.
Regards,
Winter
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I like gritty... My concern was "bland". I'm sorry I can't create anything better myself, or I would do... But opinions were asked, and I said the first thing that jumped into my mind.
I'm sure you guys will come up with a great solution, considering the artistic talent we have here.
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Cant you make something that's pops up from the surface, when you click it with the mouse or something ?
and in the first instance you have an blinking point on the surface or what ever.
(http://www.sitters-electronics.nl/md2/models/pop1.jpg)
Willem
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No, I think the symbols should be present by default, just a lot smaller than in that screenshot. Ideally you'd have to zoom in a bit to see it better, but you should still be able to select it without problems when zoomed out all the way.
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No, I think the symbols should be present by default, just a lot smaller than in that screenshot. Ideally you'd have to zoom in a bit to see it better, but you should still be able to select it without problems when zoomed out all the way.
It would be interesting to be able to 'pop up' a bunch of info for a mission, though -- such as terrain, estimated number of enemies, races spotted, number of civilians threatened . . .
Here's an idea, but it may be too elaborate to implement code-wise:
The geoscape doesn't feature individual icons for missions, only 'hotspot' icons on which you can get further information by clicking on them, which pops up a little window in a corner of the geoscape containing the specific mission icon (at a good size) and a short bit of relevant mission information.
Opinions welcome.
Regards,
Winter
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It would be interesting to be able to 'pop up' a bunch of info for a mission, though -- such as terrain, estimated number of enemies, races spotted, number of civilians threatened . . .
(snip)
Regards,
Winter
One thing that would be nice is knowing before you get there if snipers (and similar) are wasted. Nothing like showing up at the dam with a bunch of flamethrowers, or at farm08 with 3 snipers. A general terrain idea would be very welcome. The additional information wouldn't hurt either. "Ah, dammit, it's dragonliches... get out the flamethrowers... and stun grenades... stupid civilians always run where we want to grenade and there's 3000 of 'em."
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there is a gameplay proposal in our wiki that BTAxis has written - go and read it ;-)
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It would be interesting to be able to 'pop up' a bunch of info for a mission, though -- such as terrain, estimated number of enemies, races spotted, number of civilians threatened . . .
That would be a cool feature.
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Don't you have satellite's flying around the geoscape where you can log in when it has detect an anomaly, or something and ask what he has detect.
Pffft. :? an million possibility's
Willem
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Here's an idea, but it may be too elaborate to implement code-wise:
The geoscape doesn't feature individual icons for missions, only 'hotspot' icons on which you can get further information by clicking on them, which pops up a little window in a corner of the geoscape containing the specific mission icon (at a good size) and a short bit of relevant mission information.
I think this would be very nice, but I also think the information should be very superficial - nothing in the way of the briefings, or said briefings would hardly serve a purpose anymore. I'm thinking of simple things things like mission type, country affected by the mission, day/night status and time elapsed since the mission appeared.
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On thing regarding the Day/Night status.
It should be Day or Night depending on whenever your troops arrive on the location. This was the case in UFO - XCOM. However this is not yet the case in UFO AI. It seams that the maps are preprogrammed in day or night mode. However I suppose this is something that will be "solved" when the maps are randomly generated.
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We have day and night versions of the maps right now. In theory, the correct map should be selected when the mission is started. This might currently be broken, though.
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I know the icons are supposed to represent a 'gritty' feel, but I've found it hard to see some of the icons on the geoscape - ship models in particular. Is it possible to show a brighter coloured circle around these to denote enemy/ally? It would be neat if more information, like fuel and health, were also represented by coloured arcs around these circles.
(Personally, I like abstracted icons better, but that's just me. :P)
Actually, I wonder how much benefit there is by using actual 3D models for the ships. Textured sprites might work just as well, considering only the top of the aircraft are ever seen.
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Actually, I wonder how much benefit there is by using actual 3D models for the ships. Textured sprites might work just as well, considering only the top of the aircraft are ever seen.
Not true, the 3d geoscape should (if not yet, then at some point) feature a flexible view of the icons.
Regards,
Winter
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Ah, okay then. Google Earth Geoscape, anyone? :P
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Not true, the 3d geoscape should (if not yet, then at some point) feature a flexible view of the icons.
It is already implemented, you don't always see models from the top. If the model is on the side of the globe, you see it from the side.
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I see we still only have 2 geoscape icons (at least in 2.2).
Current list:
Harvesting/Terror missions:
UFO crash missions:
UFO landing missions:
Storyline missions:
Generic missions:
Am i correct in understanding that every type of marker on the geoscape might come in either the "Storyline" or "Generic" version?
Is this still a complete list of the geoscape indicators we will need?
In addition there are, of course, bases: PHALANX, alien...
and did i see somewhere that subverted human locations will sometimes be in play?
What about Aliens invading a PHALANX base? Will the mission be automatically triggered, or will there be a geoscape icon which needs to be responded to?
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I see we still only have 2 geoscape icons (at least in 2.2).
As far as I know, we've got icons for PHALANX base, alien base, aircraft, and two mission icons. We still need loads more, though.
Am i correct in understanding that every type of marker on the geoscape might come in either the "Storyline" or "Generic" version?
No. Storyline missions are special and should have their own special icon so that they are never confused with anything else.
Is this still a complete list of the geoscape indicators we will need?
No, I'll post one up later.
and did i see somewhere that subverted human locations will sometimes be in play?
Maybe, we don't have anything definite in mind for that.
What about Aliens invading a PHALANX base? Will the mission be automatically triggered, or will there be a geoscape icon which needs to be responded to?
As far as I'm concerned, the mission should be auto-triggered. The aliens aren't going to sit around for a few hours waiting for you to do something when they've succesfully landed at your base. If base attacks were NOT instantly triggered, it would damage their sense of urgency.
Regards,
Winter
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As far as I'm concerned, the mission should be auto-triggered. The aliens aren't going to sit around for a few hours waiting for you to do something when they've succesfully landed at your base. If base attacks were NOT instantly triggered, it would damage their sense of urgency.
I support this but there is one problem: Will the the squad/soldiers in this base be able to grab some equipment before the mission starts or is it necessary to take this into account before an ufo is able to land near you? If I employed 10 soldiers in this base it would be unrealistic to handle two of them as civis. I guess I'm raising a complicated matter. ::)
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As far as I know, we've got icons for PHALANX base, alien base, aircraft, and two mission icons.
I only see 2 in /models/geoscape/
...the same 2 that i've only seen in the game, an alien icon and a PHALAX base icon
No. Storyline missions are special and should have their own special icon so that they are never confused with anything else.
I understand the importance of making storyline missions obviously distinct. However if there are (for instance) Storyline Terrorsite missions, Storyline Crashed Ship missions, and Storyline Alien Base missions etc., the best approach would probably be to start with the standard icon for those two things, and than add an additional, consistent element to indicate the "Storyline-ness" of that particular item.
No, I'll post one up later.
Thanks, i'd like to take a shot at designing the whole series of icons, once we get the whole list. It's easiest to make things obvious and clear when you are aware of the big picture.
Also i believe it would be best if the orientation of the icon always pointed to the top of the screen, not towards the north pole. This would help the player "read" the icons since he would never see them sideways or upside-down.
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I understand the importance of making storyline missions obviously distinct. However if there are (for instance) Storyline Terrorsite missions, Storyline Crashed Ship missions, and Storyline Alien Base missions etc., the best approach would probably be to start with the standard icon for those two things, and than add an additional, consistent element to indicate the "Storyline-ness" of that particular item.
No, storyline missions are special and separate from the standard missions and should not be associated with them. They will be scripted rather than random, and their objectives will be far more complex than the random missions. The player will know the context of any storyline mission that pops up -- trying to categorise them via icons would be detrimental and a waste of effort.
Also i believe it would be best if the orientation of the icon always pointed to the top of the screen, not towards the north pole. This would help the player "read" the icons since he would never see them sideways or upside-down.
I don't know how feasible this is, since it would require dynamically rotating the icons. One of the coders will have to weigh in.
Regards,
Winter
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Is this still a complete list of the geoscape indicators we will need?
No, I'll post one up later.
don't forget...
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don't forget...
I had, thanks for reminding me.
List of needed geoscape icons:
Harvesting/Terror Missions:
No fixed idea, but I'd like the current one to be replaced at some point by something better.
UFO Crash Missions:
Crashed partly-buried UFO with UFO bits strewn around.
Storyline Missions:
No fixed idea. Something to mark these missions out as important and unique, but doesn't directly brand them as plot chunks.
I don't know if there are more needed at the moment, not too up to date on the status of the icons, can anyone update me if I left anything out?
Regards,
Winter
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I don't know if there are more needed at the moment
I'd really like to know about all the ones that you think you'll ever need, so i can do them all in a batch.
I presume "alien base" needs to be added to the ultimate list.
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Harvesting/Terror Missions:
No fixed idea, but I'd like the current one to be replaced at some point by something better.
Then you probably would like the base model to be replaced too: this is almost the same than terror mission model.
I presume "alien base" needs to be added to the ultimate list.
I already see a "alien base" in base/models/geoscape" (alienbase.*). I don't know what is the status of this model, however.
I don't know if there are more needed at the moment, not too up to date on the status of the icons, can anyone update me if I left anything out?
Maybe we need a symbol for "alien base under construction" ?
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Maybe we need a symbol for "alien base under construction" ?
I don't see why. I shouldn't think those come into it at any point, if only because it would constitute a whole lot more mapping work. There were once plans to include PHALANX facilities that were under construction to the base defence map, but we just don't have the tiles, so that idea was canned.
As for the icons, what about XVI propagation?
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I don't see why. I shouldn't think those come into it at any point, if only because it would constitute a whole lot more mapping work. There were once plans to include PHALANX facilities that were under construction to the base defence map, but we just don't have the tiles, so that idea was canned.
As for the icons, what about XVI propagation?
Yes . . . We also need some kind of map overlay that graphically shows XVI spread, which can then be slowly revealed centred on alien bases, a bit like the biomass in UFO: Aftermath. Not exactly an icon but certainly falls under geoscape art.
Regards,
Winter
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About that, there were some ideas on the mailing list. Basically a bitmap that stores the level of XVI spread per pixel. It sounded okay to me, but I don't know what you had in mind for it.
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About that, there were some ideas on the mailing list.
Link? I can't find your mailing list... and i don't really understand how this will fit into the game.
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It was never more than the concept I just wrote. There's nothing to look at.
As for how it will fit into the game, the XVI overlay should show areas with higher and lower concentrations of XVI infection on the geoscape. Read the article on CVI Census to get a general idea.
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About that, there were some ideas on the mailing list. Basically a bitmap that stores the level of XVI spread per pixel. It sounded okay to me, but I don't know what you had in mind for it.
It sounds good code-wise, but how exactly would it look? I mean, simple discolouration wouldn't be very exciting or threatening. We want XVI to creep across the Earth with menace.
Regards,
Winter
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So what is it you're thinking of? Something like the biomass in Aftermath? I don't see why PHALANX intel would do something like that (it IS their data you're basically seeing).
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If the engine supported it, would an animated texture like this work?
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~djetowns/public_html/misc_files/UFO_AI/xvi_test1_0001_0125.avi
(Yay procedural texture animation. :) )
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If the engine supported it, would an animated texture like this work?
https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~djetowns/public_html/misc_files/UFO_AI/xvi_test1_0001_0125.avi
(Yay procedural texture animation. :) )
That looks brilliant, but I don't think we've got animated texture support. Mattn, come enlighten us! And if we haven't got it, can you code it?
Regards,
Winter
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should not be a problem - but only via vertex shader - the problem is how to calculate the surface of the infected locations
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should not be a problem - but only via vertex shader - the problem is how to calculate the surface of the infected locations
Like I said, they should radiate out from alien bases in a rough circle. Also, ideally, this would be going on without getting displayed on the Geoscape until the player researches Alien Infiltration.
Regards,
Winter
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Are people still making icons for the geoscape? I can't seem to find a definitive list anywhere.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Josh's ones look nice.
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Josh's ones look nice.
I'll second that.
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For each new geoscape icon on the geoscape map we need a image and a model.
Steve
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How would you want to look the model like?
Something like a cirle with the symbol on it?
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I know how I'd like the model to look. Think you could pull this off?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I very like the idea of a pin into the earth (like we can see on Google Earth, here we see a fast preview). But i dislike the skull (the little grey head is maybe better, with a color code or another element).
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The pin concept is a good one but the skull doesn't really fit. Some more colour in the icons themselves might be necessary as well, to get the point across better.
We had a list of needed icons somewhere, but I can't seem to find it now . . .
Regards,
Ryan
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I also like the idea of pin-pointers, but I think they should point from straight above (so 2D would be a projection of circles) - if earth is looked at in 3D, these pins shouldn't be flat but somehow raised (if such is possible with the engine). Aircrafts also should not be flat but flying over the earth.
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The 3D geoscape is such that you never really see any markers at a sufficiently reduced angle to really warrant stuff being elevated, though. It's okay for the pins, but aircraft can be directly on the surface.
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Uhm here a rendered image of the model. I thought about creating some squary/triangular pointers too. The pictures could easily be attached to the file I hope.
I just would need some help with the export again ::)
Maybe there can be done another model for a mission. The second one a highlighted one that gets active on mouseover.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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That hits the nail on the head so to speak. :)
Some animation cues would be good also, like little triangles rotating around the pin when you select it, or flashing color, or blah blah blah... That's just glitz and glamour, not necessary at all.
If there are really important storyline icons, I would strongly suggest that an animated icon be used, as opposed to a static icon. So if you used static pins for normal stuff, for the storyline missions you'd use a waving flag, or a flashing exclamation point, or a blah blah blah... The human eye is very good at catching movement.
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Unfortunately I dont know how to make moving models... I would like to learn it, but I this might take some time ::)
Maybe we should make a list about the missions available + the colors and forms of the pins:
- Crashed UFO -> green circle
- Landed UFO -> blue circle
- Terror Site -> yellow triangle
- Aliens attacking a players base/offbase-installation -> purple triangle
- Alien-Base -> red square
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- Alien-Base under construction????
Not necessary. No missions will be spawned for unfinished alien bases.
- Aliens attacking a player offbase-installation????
I think this could be the same as aliens attacking a base.
- Aliens bombing cities????
Not going to happen.
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Here some proposals for the forms
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Now with extra colours -->
Alienbase (with the scull)
Terrorsite
Crashed UFO
Landed UFO <-- Here I swapped the colors, but I am too lazy to upload the new image
Comments:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here you get the sourcefiles if you want...
Someone should export them again... or tell me what I am doing wrong :(
[attachment deleted by admin]
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It's maybe not a good idea to use more than one model. Too many symboles will not help: we already can change the image and the color. And, as say Josh just a *little variation* ("triangles rotating around the pin") for some important mission can be nice.
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I prefer "terrormission.jpg" looking.
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I'm with Bayo on the idea to keep things simple - or in this case, making a group of things have common features.
I. e. making all "alien missions" similar either in shape or in color, just like all Phalanx installations etc., in order to keep the globe tidy.
Since radar towers already have unique shapes, and the same is to expected for SAMs, I think groups with equal or similar colors but dfferent shapes are the way to go.
That would mean that all Phalanx installations would be white/blue, for example, but with different models. Crashed and landed UFOs could be round orange pins, with bases being square orange pins. And then, if you zoom in, there are the symbols to distinguish e.g. between crashed and landed.
Other colors should then only be given to special things, like a big red pin for a story-based alien attack.
EDIT:
(http://www.abload.de/img/pinsj271.bmp)
Something like this for the aliens. Important missions would be the same pins in red and/or flashing.
Or using the exclamation mark, if we want to be blunt about it.
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please also share the meshes
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I would, but I don't have any. I just edited Ghosta's pic. :)
That's why I added the flat "textures". I can give you those in other formats if you like.
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OOooo,
Just to let u all know that there is someone else here who have been following up to this point but keeping quiet.
The symbols proposed so far all looked very nice, simplistic enuf yet with variations and also with a touch of 'alieny'-look.
Look forward to see these being implemented.
Just being curious, will we be using this as 'action-available' flashing icons??
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Something like this for the aliens. Important missions would be the same pins in red and/or flashing.
Or using the exclamation mark, if we want to be blunt about it.
I like the middle two icons, but the left two 'UFO' icons are too vague and confusing to be much good. I'm certainly up for an overhaul of the icons though.
Regards,
Winter
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left two 'UFO' icons are too vague and confusing
Those are from Josh's concept and are probably supposed to resemble the scout/fighter UFO designs.
I like their "alien symbol" look. But of course we can add some lines to make them look less abstract:
(http://www.abload.de/img/pins-alt5h37.jpg)
And thinking of it, when I look at the Geoscape and what has been proposed so far, I believe it would look best to have uniform silver pins (like Ghostas first) sticking in places, with those symbols on circular/square/triangular colored heads.
P.S.: Something like this.
(http://www.abload.de/img/pinxglobeq3v4.jpg)
The "code" being
Pin -> mission / temporal marker
Shade of orange -> alien activity
Triangle -> assault (may include installation attacks)
Kerrblade symbol -> terror site
Again, this is photoshopped.
If you would like to try the models in-game, I'd be glad if someone could make them.
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Vio, are you still up for contributing these icons? We'll need a few more designs for the full geoscape suite.
Regards,
Winter
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Winter, what do you think about this icons (terror site and alienbase):
http://kildor.miranda.im/ufoai/missions_geoscape.png
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I'm back.
What do you need?
Once we agree on a concept, I'm glad to help.
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Kildor: For bases (PHALANX and alien) we were planning to use 3d icons, and I think Vio's ones are our best bet for the mission icons. The icons you've got are also quite indistinct, I can't make out anything about them, they're just blurs.
Vio: We need working icons for all types of missions. I like your current suite, but we still need one more, Terror mission with human enemies
Also, I prefer the exclamation mark icon for storyline missions. If you could get all of that ready to put into the game, I'd really appreciate it.
Regards,
Winter
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Winter, the problems with icons (they are currently 3d models, btw), they are really small and will not be larger may be we need to redone the model,to make use not 256x256 texture but may be 64x64?
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a 3D model following the 3D geoscape normal is IMO not a good idea. Look at google earth, it work very nice without.
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Kildor: What does the texture size have to do with the size of the model? And how would a smaller texture make it clearer what's going on?
bayo: I don't know what's technically possible, but I don't want to revert the geoscape to a bunch of abstract 2d symbols. It removes the geoscape too much from tactical gameplay. Both need to have the same sort of style. I don't really care how far they project from the globe surface, they just have to be easily visible from all angles.
Regards,
Winter
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easily visible from all angles
Good luck
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Winter, texture is blurred because the model is big, and it is resized in game. Look to attach file.
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Terror mission with human enemies
How's this?
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How's this?
if i would be a developer, i would ask "wheres the hand from?" does not look like you made it yourself
---> licence problem? or is it an open source graphic?
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Vio, could you place your images to real in-game globe? Just to compare.
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How's this?
How about putting an alien hand in that pose? Right now it looks like a human rebellion symbol and reminds me a lot of the Red Faction: Guerrilla hand.
Edit: Dang it, I've lost my ability to read...
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Hertilza, can you read Winter`s request (quoted by Vio, BTW)
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"wheres the hand from?" does not look like you made it yourself
I didn't. It's a modified public domain pic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Red_stylized_fist.svg).
For globe pic see above.
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How's this?
I meant to say I like it, it's a good image and we could use it.
Regards,
Winter
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> For globe pic see above.
Sorry, but that (first pic on previous page) image doesn`t have any relations to in-game globe. Give full screenshot (1024x768, with gui and don`t zoom in).
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If you have a specific idea just put the symbols in, they are all there.
Besides, that last part just sounded like an order. Two, in fact. And that's probably the worst way of making me do anything.
@Winter
Ok, but I have little experience in modelling. If anybody could do the pins, I will make proper textures.
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You are able to draw anything. But don`t forget (and this is advice) to check how it will be in real situation, in the real game. Because your symbols are big, and do not correctly scaling. Look to my screenshot, I`ve tried to make current model with your synbol (kerrblade).
What dimesions should that pins have? 20x20px? 200x200? how should they look on different resolutions? This is questions for you, as creator of the symbols.
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I agree, the Kerrblade silhouette (not mine, btw) has too much detail for a small symbol.
Maybe we should use an alien fist/claw after all, creating a similar yet distinct look for alien terror.
P.S.: Something like this (quick sketch) - or just the hands without the blood background.
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Soooo... any progress on this?
I'm kind of byse these days, but still stopping by at times...
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I like it, so as far as I'm concerned we should use it.