UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: krilain on December 08, 2012, 04:39:29 pm
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I changed a little this topic tittle so I can show eventually here new ideas. If in your opinion they were impossible to realize for any reasons just let me know.
Hello,
I'm still discovering slowly this very refined game. While I'm doing some very little first steps in various directions, sometimes a point calls my attention... What I translate into some sketches... I can't say if I will go further or not for the moment due to the technical gap. Moreover I generally dont know if it would be of any interest. But in the present case after doing some basical sketch I discovered with surprise that the idea was already on the starters, so it should be of interest !
The alien beast I called ghost is really close to the psi-amplifier. For some reasons I was not alone to think about such an unit. Whatever there remains differences in the way my ghost should work compared to the psi-amplifier. First of all the artwork design. Here is mine ... ( may it show what no to do at least :) )
(http://hfr-rehost.net/self/f6db1664e279c9057fce532f88b7ed22200b62ee.png)
Alien Ghost artwork
Then comes the way it works. Apparently the Psi-amplifier should be a weak unit, almost gazeous, with no offensive powers. At this point, this is exactly the same support unit as mine.
Anyway if I understood well, the Psi-amplifier is a 0/1 unit. I mean, 0, it is alive, there is a bonus over the whole alien team. 1, it is dead, the bonus vanishes. Ok, my ghost is also bonus-binary, but it doesn't work about psi-power and there is a range of effect. The ghost is a healer. He is providing energy refeed to any hurt alien located close enought , and it reacts by the reaction fire mechanism.
But there is something more. When the ghost comes attacked, he can give a regroup order to any aliens falling under his effect-range.
To make it clear, I took a battlescape case that I pictured (you can see that aliens need a cask to be linked with the ghost):
(http://hfr-rehost.net/self/a6482ac530aa71579aee0c7e84fd2445000a6b92.png)
Alien Ghost - battlescape case 1/3
(http://hfr-rehost.net/self/992dc98a2b906edc312f8b14a6f99c62018739a2.png)
Alien Ghost - battlescape case 2/3
(http://hfr-rehost.net/self/988e955f2e4bd1eeb47d5a3c855ae4f67b8bd1a5.png)
Alien Ghost - battlescape case 3/3
Ok, I hope it can be of any interest.
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You should add your idea in brief and without pictures to the discussion page (http://ufoai.org/wiki/Talk:Proposals/Alien_Bestiary) of our Alien Bestiary.
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You should add your idea in brief and without pictures to the discussion page (http://ufoai.org/wiki/Talk:Proposals/Alien_Bestiary) of our Alien Bestiary.
Thanks, I will.
Did you notice this already existing page -> http://ufoai.org/wiki/Proposals/Alien_Bestiary ?
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What about a jumper-spider unit ?
It is not really for the tactical enrichment, but to increase the fear level. Effectively not to know if an enemy will jump at you from any direction is very intrigating. It is approximatively as when you see a grenade falling at a soldier's feet, but with the difference that you get a chance to react. And firing at a jumping object is (should be) extremely funny.
About how the jumping spider attack, I would say too much if I said I knew it. It shouldn't be able to attack in the air, and to balance the aerial unbalanced way of moving, it should have to deploy some weapon only when landed. Maybe then the weapon type could be of some big artillery type.
I though also of an armored spider, associated with metal sound when bullets hit.
Here some sketches.
Jumping spider may cause terror
(http://hfr-rehost.net/self/adaeeac5b6575e9a1d88c98a9e96626bd467f108.png)
Jumping thing patroling... dont make any noise
(http://hfr-rehost.net/self/f62a471529f43df6cb3f207f1cd6a8bc44409c62.png)
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These are pretty sweet ideas. The Ghost will take some AI work to happen and the jumping spider will take some new combat behavoirs but they seem in the scope of the game. I'm a big Aliens fan and like the spider idea particularly.
The Ghost is a nice concept but the regroup seems like an AI priority and not an ability per se. An ability would be something like making them turn to face the ghost's enemies at no TU cost when the cost is attacked. IE the Ghost's reaction fire is to coordinate the other aliens' RF rather than simply asking for help when attacked.
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I also like the jumping spider. I don't really think of it as scary though. It is very difficult to get "scared" properly in a turn based game.
Although I have thought about having a completely invisible alien. (bonus for the content devs, it doesn't require much work! :P) I'm thinking of a melee psy-blade monster with no indication its there except for your dead soldiers (and civilians ofc) It would be naturally weak to ground area incendiaries, perhaps it can block out smoke clouds? And of course it'd be visible to IR goggles -- to prevent complete frustration.
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These are pretty sweet ideas. The Ghost will take some AI work to happen and the jumping spider will take some new combat behavoirs but they seem in the scope of the game. I'm a big Aliens fan and like the spider idea particularly.
Thanks, I'm just at early basis on the design work.
Just like you, I'm a fan of the great Aliens serie. The spider's behaviour and aspect for the head is due to that.
The Ghost is a nice concept but the regroup seems like an AI priority and not an ability per se. An ability would be something like making them turn to face the ghost's enemies at no TU cost when the cost is attacked. IE the Ghost's reaction fire is to coordinate the other aliens' RF rather than simply asking for help when attacked.
My idea is also to make the necessity of killing first the weak but central ghost unit before you can seriously hope to kill the others. The concepts you describe are going on the same road.
I also like the jumping spider. I don't really think of it as scary though. It is very difficult to get "scared" properly in a turn based game.
I think it can be worrying at least. Imagine for instance that you wanted to hide soldiers at some large buildings flanks. If an alien was able to fall from the skies it should be really more tricky than when you just had to wait them coming from the buildings corners. More over due to the visibility of objects coming from the map z-levels, you would be really surprised. You probably would have to scan more regularily the z-levels than you do today at least.
Although I have thought about having a completely invisible alien. (bonus for the content devs, it doesn't require much work! :P) I'm thinking of a melee psy-blade monster with no indication its there except for your dead soldiers (and civilians ofc) It would be naturally weak to ground area incendiaries, perhaps it can block out smoke clouds? And of course it'd be visible to IR goggles -- to prevent complete frustration.
An invisible alien would really be a great problem. Your example reminds me the starcraft dark-templar, but the design I suggested for the jumping spider is also similar to the dragoon unit. Such an unit require some work anyway because I imagine we would be able to improve IR goggles in order to see them - as you have said yourself :)
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It is very difficult to get "scared" properly in a turn based game.
Ever played the original X-COM? Entering terror mission just to find it is done by Snakemen and a horde of Chryssalids was scary.
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I'm not saying its impossible. I've even been quite startled in UFO:AI a few times. But its a lot different than say, playing Doom3 or Amnesia. I could not bring myself to finish the other two games because I was running out of clean pants :P
I think it can be worrying at least. Imagine for instance that you wanted to hide soldiers at some large buildings flanks. If an alien was able to fall from the skies it should be really more tricky than when you just had to wait them coming from the buildings corners. More over due to the visibility of objects coming from the map z-levels, you would be really surprised. You probably would have to scan more regularily the z-levels than you do today at least.
Yeah this is what I meant. In turn based thinking games you can have tough decisions and tricky enemies that are "scarily tough" but I was just alluding to the fact that the feelings are quite different to being actually so scared you have to stop playing.
An invisible alien would really be a great problem. Your example reminds me the starcraft dark-templar, but the design I suggested for the jumping spider is also similar to the dragoon unit. Such an unit require some work anyway because I imagine we would be able to improve IR goggles in order to see them - as you have said yourself
heh, Starcraft steals a bunch of good ideas from other places too ;) but yes there are similarities to the DT. I'm not sure IR goggles need "improving" so much, as is they are pretty powerful and it would be nice if they could perhaps be weakened slightly. eg. only display a red glow in the general area instead of displaying the unit model complete with what armor and weapons they are carrying. They would certainly need to be able to detect the unit, although I have no idea how they work currently. I can't imagine it would be more difficult than adding in jumping movement/pathfinding/AI ;)
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It is very difficult to get "scared" properly in a turn based game.
Chryssalids
The reason my squads always carried gear appropriate for levelling entire buildings. Once I saw a Chryssalid I stopped worrying about shooting civilians and started throwing explosives all over that area.
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When you want even trained professionals to lose their shit: Chryssalids.
Also the reason I'm happy I never touched the original.
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I never played Xcom so I've looked around for chryssalid and I found this :
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Chryssalid
Chryssalid attacks can cause instantaneous death to civilians and soldiers by planting an egg in them and injecting them with a venom that turns them into a Zombie. The attacks ignore body armour.
A zombie created by a Chryssalid will shuffle towards X-COM forces and attempt to batter the soldiers to death. If the zombie is killed, a new Chryssalid will hatch from its carcass. Essentially, a single chryssalid left to its own devices in a terror site will quickly multiply and populate the city with other chryssalids.
Very interesting mechanism :)
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What gets me on the Chryssalid (and many strategy game creatures with similair powers) is making more of something so large so fast. This is particularly bad for a game like UFO:AI that tries to keep it's feet on the ground while it gazes at the stars.
What about something a little less absurd but still a nice reference to Aliens and Chryssalids. A reproducing terror weapon, a bit like the Zuul from Sword of the Stars they are meant to terrorize the local population and feed on them to replenish.
SPOILERS IN DESCRIPTION BELOW (FOR BASE GAME AND IF PEOPLE LIKE IT THE SPIDER)
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Phalanx Suggested Designation: Locust
http://www.blendswap.com/blends/animals/pseudospider/ (This little guy is CC-BY-SA, does that work? If I understand it you can use it for anything, even commercial, if you keep this file free and give credit)
(http://www.blendswap.com/wp-content/uploads/gravity_forms/1/2011/04/pseudospider-400x300.jpg)
The locusts are a bioweapon, what brains they have are linked to the hive mind but they aren't much smarter than a hovernet. I imagine it would take a full swarm to rival even a pair of Taman mentally, but they come in swarms. They are hermaphroditic, capable of both self-fertilizing and mating with others of their kind. Each adult carries ready to incubate eggs in it at all times. These are already quite developed and unlike the eggs of Earth creatures don't hatch before they begin proper parasitization. The egg itself has a soft living surface, almost like a placenta in nature, that intertwines with the host and begins to siphon vital substances to fuel its rapid growth. On it's own this takes days but eggs can sustain rapid growth in case of the hosts sudden death. They will drain what they can and spend their remaining energy errupting from the host and then birthing a nymph. The nymphs are weaker than adults and do not yet have eggs but are still very dangerous.
Overall it's a little faster than the bloodspiders and probably between the regular and combat model in terms of endurance. Their damage is low but they have special quirks.
Abilties
Bite: Its teeth are sharp but it doesn't seem to have been given molecular edges. They are faster and pack more punch than a combat knife but an armed soldier wouldn't consider these things much of a threat if bite was all they had.
Launch: The locust can leap (Game handling: Hide locust, fire "locust" "grenade", handle attack, move locust to impact location and unhide) both to get over obstacles and provide greater force for its natural weapons.
Implant: The locust implants an egg in the target. Much higher TU cost than bite for only a tad more damage but should the victim die they will produce an egg, which on its following turn will produce a nymph.
Infect: This is the least hammered out. The locusts are teeming with XVI, including strains not seen elsewhere, and their bodily fluids make for a efficient delivery system. None of these strains are able to overcome our vaccine completely, however several were able to survive in vaccinated hosts for up to 36 hours. All of the vaccinated subject who came in contact with these strains seem normal however some have come forward to say they experienced strange thoughts and feelings after exposure. These effects could be psychosomatic or simple fever but we can't rule out the possibility that the unusual XVI strains managed to, hopefully temporarily, establish partial contact with the alien mind.
Infect is my way of adding a path for more psionic/XVI stuff that doesn't rely on the player "lowering shields" in order to go psychically offensive, which is what most of the design seems about. I feel the chance of being drawn in against your choice makes it creepier and more interesting without going to the extreme levels of other similar games.
And tactically speaking, while days is best for the health of the young locust in combat stress they get messy with hurry and civilians will probably not make it to the end of the battle if a locust finds them. The attack won't kill but with bleeding and civilian HP you'll have a nymph on your hands if you don't get a medic to them fast.
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Those locusts are quite nice :)
I wont comment every point since it is quite clear. I just find really interesting to associate those locusts to a swarm mechanism. It could give a pretty opportunity for unfolding the terror missions. I mean a terror mission could be displayed in many moments, and we should be able to deal with terror missions from their last moments to their first first. I'll try to explain this :
The swarm has a source (a first egg, or so on). The first thing the aliens do, is to implement this source somewhere on earth, more or less secretly (just as XVI virus). Then the weapon expands, and becomes visible when causing the first big troubles to civilians. At this moment only the Phallanx are called to go at contact with the threat, but actually at the front the terror-beasts wave, not at the source (which I suppose emitting many swarms if not extinguished).
Here could be interesting to introduce a sort of cinetics where our army should have to counter a diffusing threat by fighting very efficiently at his front in order to get the chance to deal at last with the source.
For instance, and more precisely. Suppose a first swarm of your locusts biological alien weapon. Unless we are very lucky, we shouldn't detect immediatly the source until his first moves and first attacks. Eventually, if many attacks, we may have to triangulate the attacked spots... In one other case the game could simply reveal the source at the first attacks. Whatever, there is simultaneously 2 problems to deal with, the swarm front, and the swarm source. If you don't clean well enough the swarm front (for instance if civilians are hit, even 1), terror missions due to it will increase fast from the front (increasing his radius). And if you dont kill the source, the terror mission source will never die.
Ok, from this, a last advantage comes. In the today campain there is no free missions. I mean, if I wanted to train my team by doing secondary missions on demand, or as much as I want ( until you reach a maximum of extra ), today I cant. But imagine the front+source swarm mechanism here described, a skillful player could keep a terror source on, just to let terrors missions come and be a training mission source for his teams.
Ok, that was to show to what more your chrisalyd-like alien can also lead.
For the 3Dmodel you showed, I think it is really disguting, exactly such as a terrorifying beast should be :)
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Actually I was thinking along those lines yes. :)
There's already something similair... MORE SPOILERS... watch the movement of supply ships, the mail about of them being related to bases isn't idle chatter if you ever see a supply ship disappear it have entered a base. When I see a lot of supply ships I send interceptors to scan the area extra carefully and it's worked well.
So the seed ship is small fast and likely more stealth with few armaments. Where it lands it creates a hidden locust colony, like an alien base, which then goes on to send out locust swarms. I'm not sure which is easier for the engine, spawning them directly as missions near the hidden colony or making some kind of ground unit to use the way bases do supply ships.
In any case the point is that ignoring a locust infestation site would cause more locust infestations and more XVI if you didn't catch it. Assuming XVI system stays on track all this battle map stuff should be easier to do than the jumping attack itself. "Farming" is something that shouldn't be encouraged too much. It can be tempting, even work out if you are very careful but in this sort of gave I'd like it to be a devil's bargain. Really I'd rather the player feel they'd like to wipe out the main colony as soon as they find it because another is probably about to land.
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Okay, I got them plugged in as a new race. Sorta.
The details of what UFO:AI wants from a md2 elude me and the straight export from Blender is tiny, floating in the air and seems skinned wrong. It does however animate as instructed and I got the alien blood graphic that game with the model displaying as their blood pool.
Of course plugging in and stating the model is easy compared to their special moves. However this does mean the model should basically work with minimal effort.
EDIT: And I found .md2 exporting from Blender info: http://ufoai.org/wiki/Modelling/Blender All is well :)
The pivot took me forever but they are working. Their blood pool has an alpha channel error where it shows over things like trees and they need a lot of special code to really be like what I described but they exist and I drew up armor and other stats. They even show up in Skirmish :)
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Actually I was thinking along those lines yes. :)
There's already something similair... MORE SPOILERS... watch the movement of supply ships, the mail about of them being related to bases isn't idle chatter if you ever see a supply ship disappear it have entered a base. When I see a lot of supply ships I send interceptors to scan the area extra carefully and it's worked well.
So the seed ship is small fast and likely more stealth with few armaments. Where it lands it creates a hidden locust colony, like an alien base, which then goes on to send out locust swarms. I'm not sure which is easier for the engine, spawning them directly as missions near the hidden colony or making some kind of ground unit to use the way bases do supply ships.
In any case the point is that ignoring a locust infestation site would cause more locust infestations and more XVI if you didn't catch it. Assuming XVI system stays on track all this battle map stuff should be easier to do than the jumping attack itself. "Farming" is something that shouldn't be encouraged too much. It can be tempting, even work out if you are very careful but in this sort of gave I'd like it to be a devil's bargain. Really I'd rather the player feel they'd like to wipe out the main colony as soon as they find it because another is probably about to land.
I agree with all of that. And I appreciate the very clear way you have to expose those mechanisms.
Just about "farming", I supposed that by the word "farming" you meant "keeping a seed alive". If that's right, I agree with you that it shouldn't be an easy task. Anyway, in my opinion, it is enought interesting as a thing to try, to motivate the player for he restarts the game many times, just for the pleasure to become each time a greater farmer :)
Okay, I got them plugged in as a new race. Sorta.
The details of what UFO:AI wants from a md2 elude me and the straight export from Blender is tiny, floating in the air and seems skinned wrong. It does however animate as instructed and I got the alien blood graphic that game with the model displaying as their blood pool.
Of course plugging in and stating the model is easy compared to their special moves. However this does mean the model should basically work with minimal effort.
EDIT: And I found .md2 exporting from Blender info: http://ufoai.org/wiki/Modelling/Blender All is well :)
The pivot took me forever but they are working. Their blood pool has an alpha channel error where it shows over things like trees and they need a lot of special code to really be like what I described but they exist and I drew up armor and other stats. They even show up in Skirmish :)
It is an excellent preview here :)
Moreover I think you are doing good by starting with a free animated model that complies perfectly. There is only to implement the special animations now, but as far as I know the actual spiders are also in need for new attack animations (there are 2 attacks animated exactly the same maneer).
I have not too much time this week, but if it is only a question of adding frames for a model animation, I could do it very easily. I think I've well understood this part of char modeling. I suffer more in texture application, or even in mesh conversion.
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Wait really? Perfect
I'm a programmer artist. Not on of those people who draws crappy BMPs as placeholders. I started doing that at 12 and somehow built up some artistic talent. My specialties are all conversion, filters, particle systems and algorithms of course. I do the programmy side of artwork on my projects and let the people who went to college specially for it do the detailed sculpting and drawing.
I have been animated a 2d system (in RAW CODE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sb5p9btQ4w The animation is all me and done by code, the mech is from 3d assets and the monster is drawn) but that extra axis makes things even harder. If I tried it would take forever and come out jerky.
The model actually came with a lot of what we want. It has a leap action and several attacks. It could use 2 other deaths and an animation specially for implanting eggs. It has a lot of hurt animations, which UFOAI doesn't use, and one is filling in for panic now but it looks a little spastic.
I'm attaching a .pk3 that contains all the locust files. For animating though you just want the original model from Blendswap. Now that I know what I'm doing getting it out is a snap.
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First of all, thanks for presenting yourself, but I may have misunderstood something on what you said. I generally miss 15 to 30 % when I read english. So I didn't say you were not able to deal with the animation, I just thought you would have to learn more blender. Moreover, programming directly animation would always be for me the best way to make it... If only 3D modeler were also programmers, which is generally not the case. So dont take it bad if I proposed you to fill by hand some of the blank frames for the locust.
From my side I'm only an Autocad (for architecture) user - at work. I have no more access to Autocad at home even if evaluation (for generally one month) or student versions are free to download. This is because I sold the computer of mines that was powerful enougth to play one of those last versions that are now the only ones we can download (I want 2006 back!).
So I was forced to train with Gmax, and discovered that fortunately the IKBones system is quite usable and efficient for animating characters.
Here comes 2 remarks. Even if I love the free model you found for locust, which reminds me great hours of playing half-life :)
(1) I think, that first it could also be rebuilt from the start with IKBones --> more work at start but infinite possibilities later.
(2) The second remark is what I've already said. Given an already existing 3D model I can use the geometry modifiers patiently in order to add new frames as clean as possible because I'm used to manipulate objects that are big 2Dmaze at work. 3D design is really more easy due to the fact you can render the scene to have a nice overview on where you are going.
Here was for clarifying this point. Just one last thing, whatever, I will probably be at hollidays out of home for one week (or two?), I don't know. It would postpone but not cancel my engagement (if needed).
I downloaded the PK3 archiven and will take a look at it, thanks :)
ps : You did a great job at the youtube demo you linked. I was ignorant about ATL language or any such a tool. I'm absolutly sure it would be useful to open a topic (eventually at the off-topic place) for a deeper presentation. There would be too much questions to ask for doing that here. I've in particular clicked on some other videos related with yours which revealed a wide field.