UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: paziek on July 02, 2011, 12:48:07 pm
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Hello,
So I've come back to UFO:AI recently and now it has noticeably more content, so its playable for longer. But I find its very exhausting to progress any longer. When I started with just one base it was still cool - didn't see much, didn't act too much. But now that I have more than half of the land covered suddenly I'm doing around 2 missions per day, most of with I already remember where will be aliens and what to do to kill them easily. Its getting repetitive slow grind just to get some new research or maybe new alien on the scene. Its been over 100 missions and I didn't finish all laser weapons yet, made just one alien body dissection and I'm yet to catch a living one.
Maybe beside difficulty setting, there should be "alien activity" setting, that would give us opportunity to choose how often (more or less) we want to go into action.
What do you think?
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I guess you are playing the 2.3 version. 2.4 dev version maps have a lot more different alien starting locations so you can't always win the maps with the same strategy. Also, if you get tired of doing missions, just use mission autoresolving.
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I guess you are playing the 2.3 version. 2.4 dev version maps have a lot more different alien starting locations so you can't always win the maps with the same strategy. Also, if you get tired of doing missions, just use mission autoresolving.
I would use auto-resolving if I had more soldiers, with I don't. I'm on latest 2.4, maybe some maps have more than 1 starting positions, alas there are also those that I don't even need to wonder where aliens are, since they are always in the same place. But... thats not the point. Even if each and every mission would have random starting positions, then it still would tire me too much. Right now I have 5 UFOs hovering over my radar range, not including 2 others that I intercepted - thats really putting me off this game.
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paziek, I agree with you.
The whole game balance has to be revised, one important point is the one you mentioned:
TOO MANY UFOS ARE SPAWNED
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>> The whole game balance has to be revised
I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but there's little point trying to balance a game which still has major gameplay elements missing. Introducing psionics will no doubt radically change the balance, as will a true visibility system, and any changes to the PHALANX equipment lists, and so on.
If the introduction of some element totally breaks the game, and makes it unplayable, then that would need attention, presumably, but other than that, trying to balance an unfinished game is a diversion of effort from actually implenting new content.
>> TOO MANY UFOS ARE SPAWNED
Then again, you can equally argue that the UFO appearances are what fund PHALANX expansion (in my current game, expenses outstrip funding by a considerable margin, so I depend on alien tech sales not just for keeping what I have going, but for any future expansion. I still need at least 2 more bases).
I know what you mean though, it can be frustrating watching the research figures creeping up so slowly because of the frequency of missions and the need to handle them manually. I think it's likely that research will be one of the areas that gets a lot of attention during balancing though, because it is so critical to the development of the gameplay.
The rate of UFO appearance is also clearly a critcal part, but if it was turned down too low it could also be a problem, due to loss of funds from tech sales, less experienced soldiers and less loot generally. Until the game is more complete, it is impossible to say what the "right" level of UFO activity might be, and personally, I'd rather the dev effort went on adding shiny new toy than crippling my economy ;D
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it is impossible to say what the "right" level of UFO activity might be, and personally, I'd rather the dev effort went on adding shiny new toy than crippling my economy ;D
I agree, thats why I asked for option to set that activity myself - just like I do with "general game difficulty". Like you said, a lot of UFOs doesn't really mean its more difficult to play; on contrary - it could be easier, but at the same time more boring. But if it takes too much time to code, then so be it, nonetheless I can't play this game in its current state and that leads to little bit less testing.
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But now that I have more than half of the land covered suddenly I'm doing around 2 missions per day, most of with I already remember where will be aliens and what to do to kill them easily.
What difficulty level are you on?
On normal, I did two missions on my current in-game day and now have 4 more in the pipe (including two crashes).
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I started ignoring UFO crash sites and just focusing on Terror sites. :P
I only land on crash sites when there are no terror sites around and I feel like taking on a mission.
Speaking of terror sites, why are scouts and fighters also launching terror missions? According to the UFOpedia, they don't have landing gear and are meant to be scouts/interceptors. :-X
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Speaking of terror sites, why are scouts and fighters also launching terror missions? According to the UFOpedia, they don't have landing gear and are meant to be scouts/interceptors. :-X
They don't. What you see is probably a recon or other mission, not a terror.
About UFOPaedia: it may need to be changed, or not... I'll ask BTAxis.
-geever
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How about this! In lower difficulties less UFO's and missions would appear and expenses would be smaller to compensate the impact on your economy (AND due to easier difficulty) and on higher difficulties you would be swarmed like nowdays?
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>> How about this! In lower difficulties less UFO's and missions would appear and expenses would be smaller to compensate the impact on your economy (AND due to easier difficulty) and on higher difficulties you would be swarmed like nowdays?
Balancing a game is rarely that simple. For instance, one of the key differences between difficulty levels is the initial and extra numbers of soldiers (and other employees) - on the hardest difficulty level, in the first month you cannot even fill a Firebird, but under this scheme, you would *also* be expected to deal with the highest number of tactical missions.
I know it's called "very hard" for a reason, but it would be preferable not to push players into feeling that they have no choice but to stick to "perfect" missions, by abusing save/load. Both too many and too few UFOs can be a problem, but again, it's impossible to even begin to balance that while entire gameplay mechanisms are missing or incomplete.
You don't *have* to respond to every alien incursion though. Indeed, you might argue in a well balanced future version, that it might be an explicit design intention that at certain times, PHALANX may be better advised to leave some missions alone, until they can improve their equipment, for instance.
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Hmm... scouting missions? Mebbe I'll try to screenshot it next time I see one. But still, should scouts and fighters be landing anyway?
In response to the thread, it's quite possible to run perfect missions even with just combat armor. If you play it safe, your guys shouldn't be getting hit TOO much anyway. Just keep the aliens at a distance and pepper them with sniper fire or lasers if you got them.
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>> it's quite possible to run perfect missions even with just combat armor
Absolutely. But if you've only got 6 guys in total, and 2 get seriously wounded in the first mission, say, it's getting pretty risky to expect the team to do more missions, because you have to either take wounded with you, or leave them behind...
Ultimately, I'd like to see the balance pitched such that leaving missions alone sometimes is a viable option, at higher difficulty settings at least.
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Or make use of the broken medikit system. :P
Just have the wounded guys heal each other and their as good as new.
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>> Or make use of the broken medikit system
1) Doesn't work well if you spawn next to a UFO, with aliens facing you. They get their shots before the medkit goes off
2) Relying on broken mechanics is dangerous because they get fixed eventually
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I love this game , i love games like this. X-com through to the likes of UFO : aftermath and aftershock.... BUT.... i just spent all night playing this and had atleast 20 interceptors shot down , 4 troop transports shot down and am struggling for cash/soldiers/aircraft weapons...
Also when it comes to tactical missions my soldiers simply REFUSE to use their reserved time units to shoot at any alien that wanders out of cover , even if its right infront of them. yet the aliens will shoot at (and usually kill in one shot) my soldiers as soon as they see them no matter who's turn it is.
This is playing it on the easiest difficulty setting by the way.
I know the kinds of responses i'm going to get (if any) but before you slam me let me just say this post is more about blowing off steam than complaining and being ungrateful to the good folks that made this game and are letting it go FOR FREE.
I feel better alredy.
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I love this game , i love games like this. X-com through to the likes of UFO : aftermath and aftershock.... BUT.... i just spent all night playing this and had atleast 20 interceptors shot down , 4 troop transports shot down and am struggling for cash/soldiers/aircraft weapons...
That's strange. I usually get a nice amount of pocket money from all the UFOs and artifacts I sell. Remember to wait until the end of the month (or start of the month, rather) for big investments though, otherwise that pocket money won't do at all.
Also when it comes to tactical missions my soldiers simply REFUSE to use their reserved time units to shoot at any alien that wanders out of cover , even if its right infront of them. yet the aliens will shoot at (and usually kill in one shot) my soldiers as soon as they see them no matter who's turn it is.
Use weapons that cost only a few TUs to fire (sidearms, shotguns, lasers) and have agents with good speed (IIRC) and you should get your reaction fire fairly reliably.
Also, are you sure you're using the "Reaction Fire" option and not the "Reserve time units"?
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please accept my apologies for offtop.
I would love to contribute the project. I enjoy programming(scripting mostly). I can dedicate much time to development.
would you give me some advices on how to start?
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Read the forum and the wiki.
Read as much as you can, almost everything is quite well documented somewhere in the wiki.
Use the forum and wiki search function often.
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That's strange. I usually get a nice amount of pocket money from all the UFOs and artifacts I sell. Remember to wait until the end of the month (or start of the month, rather) for big investments though, otherwise that pocket money won't do at all.
Use weapons that cost only a few TUs to fire (sidearms, shotguns, lasers) and have agents with good speed (IIRC) and you should get your reaction fire fairly reliably.
Also, are you sure you're using the "Reaction Fire" option and not the "Reserve time units"?
Thanks for the reply and the advice , i'll play around with it a bit more and see if it helps
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I'm getting like 5 ufo's per day with the 2.4 dev version, which is making research kinda impossible..
I've been playing a few hours now and my first month still has not passed.
I'm running out of everything (including pilots) as the shop does not get refilled fast enough and my manufacturing base is not done yet.
Any way to get this activity down a little ?
this is on 'easiest get-to-know-the-game' mode. And I still play the original UFO game =p
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How you imagin future of UFO AI, if you do not even reply on posts where someone want to contribute or where someone reports bugs!!??
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How you imagin future of UFO AI, if you do not even reply on posts where someone want to contribute or where someone reports bugs!!??
Read the forum and the wiki.
Read as much as you can, almost everything is quite well documented somewhere in the wiki.
Use the forum and wiki search function often.
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4608.0
http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Contribute
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?board=19.0
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And dont forget to visit our IRC channel.
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How you imagin future of UFO AI, if you do not even reply on posts where someone want to contribute or where someone reports bugs!!??
The developers are not your personal slaves and you can't expect them to reply within the next few seconds after a post. But the fact is, bugs ARE posted and looked at. And there ARE avenues of contribution on the CONTRIBUTE tab right at the top. The only thing lacking, and the devs did mention the fact, is that the posted information is largely unorganized or not properly documented.
In fact, you should be damn thankful their taking the time out of THEIR lives to make this game for us. But all you can do is whine? Gawd... the nerve of people nowadays.
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I wanted to add re: reaction fire, that indeed the speed rating affects reaction speed (speed attribute seems to be used for both TUs and rxns). In xcom, the remaining TUs at the end of turn also affected rxn speed (more TUs left, faster rxn speed). Not sure how the mechanics work for UFO:AI though.
Also, one quirk worth mentioning is that I've had agents take rxn shots during civilian movement, just like how the aliens can take rxn shots at your agents in range even if the shooter isn't targeting the active agent that is moving/performing an action (of course in this case I mention it isn't even the aliens' turn).
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Well I'll try to get back on topic...
Personally I think there are way too many ufos, especially given the high casualty rate they suffer. Also having to constantly fight easy but time consuming manual battles trivialises the experience and makes it boring super quickly. Even with a good autoresolve system there are still far too many of the darn things whizzing about and getting blown out of the sky.
Perhaps if the attacks could be more bursty so that you may have a period of a week or two where there are little to no attacks but then suddenly a wave of intense activity in a particular area; preferably near the player's base/s for gameplay reasons. During the quiet period you would see almost exclusively scouts who will by default try and flee if they don't feel they have a high chance of winning. Then during the intense period you will see mostly fighters and harvesters intent on landing and wreaking havok.
Of course that would put your base/operatives under great pressure for a short period and you may take heavy casualties both to people and equipment but you would have that breathing space in between to get yourself organized for the next major attack. At the start of the game the quiet periods will be long and the intense periods will be brief but this will change over time to become the opposite (rate of change depending on difficulty level).
Also I think the likes of harvester/terror missions need to be much more difficult from the get go with maximum number of aliens for a map with a mixture of taman/ortnok ALL in armour with plasma rifles or better to really put the hurt on the player and make them feel totally inferior.
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Patches are more than welcome on this issue.
-geever
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Just want to give a "Hell Yeah!" to the "Alien activity too intense?" question.
Less UFOs, harder UFOs, higher priced UFOs. That's the direction I'd like to see things go.
At present, even cheating the hell out of the game using debug_ commands, there's just a ridiculous amount of missions to do before you can make one set of nanocomposite armor.