UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: dfscott on July 01, 2010, 05:22:50 pm
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First, having great fun so far (had one of those "OMG - it's quarter 'til 3 and I have to go to work tomorrow!" moments last night :))
My question revolves around primary vs secondary weapons. I noticed that certain weapons are listed as "primary" (e.g., Assault Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Flamethrower, Rocket Launcher) while others are listed as "secondary" (e.g., Machine Pistol, Submachine Gun, Micro Shotgun).
Is there any specific qualities to being classified as primary vs secondary or is it just a convenient way to group the weapons? I thought maybe the game was trying to hint that you shouldn't use an SMG as your main weapon or something.
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Secondary weapons fit the holster, that's the main difference I think.
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Well. If Your soldier is equiped with blast weapon, and You encouner enemy at point blank, specially in buliding, SMG on full auto is far safer than granade/rocket :)
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I think it's basically the usual difference between weapons aimed to be main weapons (primary) and weapons designed as backups (secondary). SMGs blur the line a lot and it really depends on the game where it will classify them.
But in UFO:AI I think it's based on what Sarin said: whether or not it fits into the holster (and will be much quicker to draw out). SMGs can work as primary for some time but at least when the aliens start using armor they're out.
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Why weapons doesn't jam? It would help making secondary weapons more important as a element of tactics:)
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Why weapons doesn't jam? It would help making secondary weapons more important as a element of tactics:)
It's been discussed already. PHALANX is an elite squad, not a bunch of mercenaries. They keep their weapons in perfect condition.
-geever
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Point taken.
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The best way to describe the difference between primary and secondary weapons in-game is "Does it fit the holster?" but also "Is it one handed?" With the exception of the SMG (and micro-shotgun, I think?), all the secondary weapons are one-handed use. It would make reasonable sense if the SMG (or both) were usable in a single hand, as secondary weapons allow you to carry something in your soldier's other hand, like a grenade or stun-rod or medikit, while still permitting your soldier to defend or attack.
Secondary weapons are just that - secondary. They make good weapons at the start of the game, but they fall into second place the moment armor appears on your opponents. A 7.62mm pistol just does not have the stopping power of, for example, an assault rifle or flechette loaded riot shotgun, although it does get more shots per TUs than either of the mentioned weapons. It is still possible to design a strategy around their use for extensive combat use, though there will likely be better weapons at this point that renders "pistol" weapons obsolete.
I am not sure how it is in other countries' armed forces, but American parlance refers to secondary weapons as a "side-arms"; they are worn at the side in a holster and used when the primary weapon (usually a rifle) runs out of ammunition or is otherwise disabled. In general, a side-arm(secondary) weapon is a pistol-type weapon that can be wielded with a single hand - this is by design: in case a fighter breaks or loses their arm, they can still defend themselves.
In UFO: AI, the most logical use of a secondary weapon is for ammo shortages (such as your stores running out of clips for your primaries and for whatever reason it goes unnoticed), rocket launchers, and laser pistols (they are very accurate and pack quite a punch when you first get them!). In personal experience, I use rocket launchers as one-shot-drop weapons - they're too inaccurate for my enjoyment and the reload time is, appropriately, expensive. Grenade launchers are more accurate, though sometimes impractical and my soldier switches to his pistol for close-quarters fighting. Once I get laser rifles, my guys generally don't carry sidearms anymore - the holster space gets used for grenades - gas or plasma, depending on how many prisoners I've got. Or just for more DF-cartridges - it never hurts to have spare ammo! :)
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In personal experience, I use rocket launchers as one-shot-drop weapons - they're too inaccurate for my enjoyment and the reload time is, appropriately, expensive.
I, on the other hand, have found RL invaluable tactical weapon. It is accurate-you just have to crouch before firing. While they lack damage late ingame, I frequently use them for indirect fire over longer ranges than GL.
By the way, SMG shouldn't be classified as secondary weapon, submachine guns are used as primary weapons in reality.
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Secondary weapons are just that - secondary. They make good weapons at the start of the game, but they fall into second place the moment armor appears on your opponents.
Does that hold true for the SMG as well? I know you said it doesn't really fit the mold, but I'm starting to run into armored aliens now and I've upgraded my assault rifles to laser rifles to good effect. However, I'm not sure what to upgrade my SMGs to (if anything?) Would laser pistols be a good upgrade?
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Laser pistols are good when you need long range sidearm, for close range engagements either plasma pistol or grab a few plasma blades.
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Laser pistols are good when you need long range sidearm, for close range engagements either plasma pistol or grab a few plasma blades.
OK, thanks. I have a bunch of guys with close combat skill and I couldn't figure out how best to upgrade them.
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Laser pistols are great weapons for medics. While they don't have a kick to kill armored alien in one turn, they are great long range finishers. Plasma blade+laser pistol is all you need in department of backup weapons. I just use plasma pistols on laser equipped soldiers so they dont have only one damage type.
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Today I tested minishotgun for my sniper. I found that ambshed sniper on close range is in trouble. He can kill ontrok, but MP cost is high. Quick draw of full auto tiny weapon saved me a lot of trouble.
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I usually don't change the equipment of my soldiers / the soldiers in my team according to the mission. Too lazy for that.
Thus, when the terrain seems to favor it, I let my snipers and explosves guy usually change to SMGs in early game. Later, they usually aquired enought TUs to blast the aliens with two or three close range snap-shots. Even armored ortnoks don't like that.
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Does that hold true for the SMG as well? I know you said it doesn't really fit the mold, but I'm starting to run into armored aliens now and I've upgraded my assault rifles to laser rifles to good effect. However, I'm not sure what to upgrade my SMGs to (if anything?) Would laser pistols be a good upgrade?
Laser pistols make a really good upgrade for SMGs. The way you can whip them out of holster and fire them without having to drop the mainhand weapon is good, especially as they do a decent amount of damage.
I've also played with the plasma blade some. They're pretty evil little weapons, if you get caught up close. Especially with grenade launcher guys - try out the 25mm PB grenades for those, when you get the chance. They're really potent!
@Sarin:
I'm toying with the weapon code and designing a plasma rocket. It seems like it would make sense to incorporate the technology for the rocket launcher - why only make it for the grenade launcher, eh? Alternatively thinking about swapping the PB grenades for the PB rockets, then creating a gas grenade round for the GL to replace it with. Should be pretty nifty, whenever I get around to not being at work long enough to build and test it. But either way, I'd like to see the RL get a second wind like the GL gets. And somewhere around here, I saw a mod for plasma fuel for the flamethrower - not a bad idea. I think I'll try that one out, just to see if it amps the fun level; though for the time being I think the flamer is very powerful on its regular ammo. Maybe when new, tougher aliens and bots show up, plasma fuel would be awesome? :)