UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: vedrit on March 21, 2010, 08:30:01 pm
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We all know everyone here loves UFO:AI, and theres enough stuff that an online game could be made
Thats what I'd like to do (Since Destructovator has animation fairly well covered). I have a server, I have a game engine, so all I need are the resources
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Online? what do you mean by this?
like a flash game or what?
EDIT: or a FPS? or a MMORPG? OR...
*continues to babbles like a fan boy for a few more hours*
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MMORPG is what I mean. Downloadable client, etc, etc
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DO IT. DO IT. DO IT. DO IT! ;D
Yeah, you have my support! I'D LOVE to see a MMORPG of it, that would be AWESOME.
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well, theres 1 vote....
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vedrit, why not put a link to this thread in your Sig?
More people will see it then.
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Its in my siggy, but it doenst seem to be attracting any more attention
Maybe I should make it bigger....Can never go wrong with bigger...
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The game, after all, *is* primarily GPL, which is friendly to derivatives based upon it...
(Just keep in mind that GPL is also contagious, you would need your based-upon game to have a similar license and also be open-source.)
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Which is a problem because the engine is not open source, and doesnt (yet(Its still in fairly early development)) allow for clients to be open source
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Which is a problem because the engine is not open source, and doesnt (yet(Its still in fairly early development)) allow for clients to be open source
Then you're going to have a big problem - You can't just grab GPL content and put it in a closed-source project like that. You'll need to either use a different engine or get different content that isn't GPL.
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And getting content is the real problem
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"Making the good game a MMORPG" is the second idea that usually comes to mind to gamers, right after "add driveable vehicule, especially a tank !".
Well this does not necessarily means its a bad idea, but it is quite naïve. Well unless proven otherwise.
What would the game be like ? Everyone being a commander ? or a soldier ? How would mission be set up ? How would one chose to play a mission ? Is eveyone against aliens, or can you choose side ? People wont be able to change the time scale in the geoscape since everyone must play on the same virtual time - which has to be at least credible in regard to the battlescape time - wich itself isnt based on real time but time units ?
And most importantly : what would be the interest of it ?
Im pretty sure you can come up with a viable answer to that, and solutions to make a game design for the whole thing to work as an mmorpg, but just adding "-mmorpg" to a game name is not enough to call it a project.
And a last note :
I have a server, I have a game engine, so all I need are the resources
You seem to forget that you also need code. As mmorpg would imply almost total game rewrite, and at least 20 times the ammount of the code already existing for network games.
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@vedrit:
There should be enough openSource game engines out there, BUT...
I don't think it's worth the effort.
Most of the people who love UFO:AI played X-COM *back then*. Those people have reached a certain age and simply do not have the time to play an MMORPG. And I'm pretty sure that they love UFO:AI *because* it is turn-based. You may want to set up a poll to figure that out.
If you want to attract young players who never played X-COM, the contents of UFO:AI is close to worthless. MUCH more eye-candy needed ;) Also, wouldn't the game be "CS, just with aliens" ?
@Yatta:
As mmorpg would imply almost total game rewrite, and at least 20 times the ammount of the code already existing for network games.
IMHO that's exaggerated. The multiplayer mode already has the essentials for an MMORPG. Add some 10-20% to cope with the first M 'massive'. Add some more for the infrastructure thing (auto client update and such) if the engine doesn't cover that.
But also add quite an amount of code to create the addictiveness an MMORPG needs. That's where the '20 times' come in ;)
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With licensince issues aside, I'll try to answer concerns accordingly and clearly.
The engine Im using is fairly well set up as-is, and the only coding (I can find a coder in the engine community) that needs to be done is fine tuning. Making a RPG online is simple. With anything (Even here) making any sort of game is hard. There is a reason why Im not coding. I use a GUI engine
You dont make MMORPGs to attact the older generation, who grew up with the origional X-COM. Its as you say Duke, they liked it as it was.
CS does not constitute a RPG. It falls into the FPS category. The determining factor, I think, is game play and goals. In CS, you run around killing people, sometimes try to blow something up or prevent something from being blown up.
In an RPG, there are things to explore, other things to do, and the story to experience.
Very good questions, Yatta. My first thought, which is as easily done and probably better, was to allow players to choose being alien or human. On each side, they would start as basic troops (Humans: Recruit, Alien: Basic of a few of the species), and as they progress, they choose specialty classes (Humans: Promotion, Alien: DNA engineering)
This game would be very PvP (Player Vs. Player), and so the missions would be, for Aliens, would be mostly group assault missions, assigned by local area leaders (How they acheive that position is up to debate), or defending bases or resecuring downed UFOs (Random event). Humans would mostly be defend population (Much like the game), defend bases, capture downed craft, and assaulting Alien bases.
If there is anything I forgot, sorry. by the end of this post, the box was bugging out, making typing difficult
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Duke is right - UFO: AI uses an engine based upon an old, out-dated one that doesn't perform with the eye candy and FX that you see in modern games that come out today. I can't speak for everyone who came into this project, but I view UFO: AI as kind of a nostalgia type of re-creation of an older, but memorable game.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but I've seen reports of studies done here in the United States that show that over half of all American adults play video games, including many senior citizens. The vast majority that are into the online multiplayer stuff though, especially the "massive" online world type of thing, are very young and aren't typically attracted to archaic or old-school types of games, especially when they can spend time instead playing some big-shot commercial, modern game with all kinds of fancy graphics and sound - which, by the way, take large teams of full-time artists working like mad to get the game published and out-the-door before their game is out-of-date and no longer potentially interesting.
Not only are you proposing taking GPL content into what sounds like a commercial venture, proposing making a game based upon an old DOS software piece that most gamers into the massive multiplayer scene have never played because of their age, and proposing having it appeal to such gamers with what is by comparison "old-school" graphics and sound, but it sounds like you hope for your proposed game to also survive and compete with a *TON* of competition, competition created mostly with modern technology not present in UFO: AI.
No offense, but from where I stand the chance of all that working is, well, uh, "not the best," to put it lightly.
Edit: Sorry, my browser froze for a bit and hiccuped, I didn't realize you were posting at the same time. I still think some of what I said is still valid though.
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Did this report mention anything about the massive amount of indie developers? Im in the USA too, Im even in the state where it all began, I hear and have an interest in "the biz". Besides, its not like I plan on making money off of this. I dont think anyone who is using Realm Crafter (the engine) and not part of a larger group, seriously considers turning any sort of profit, or gathering more than a thousand or so players.
And besides, there is a certain...leap, if you will, between single player games (Be they C&C4 or X-COM) and MORPGs (Be they EQ1 or WoW). If I were able to use the resources currently in UFO:AI, I'd be a whole heck of a lot farther along than making a game from scratch. And with only slight modifications, it would look fairly decent aswell.
Competition and survivial? When the industrial revolution came along, what do you think all the little house shops did? They kept going. Now you see them and consider them novelty shops. Thats what this would be. Its what nearly all indie games are, are novelty games.
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If i got it right, what you're suggesting is a generic MMO, UFO:AI flavor ? each getting levels to go to RvR ?
Theres already *tons* of games like that (and I dislike this game genre).
I suppose it would be using guns icons instead of magical spells icons ?
You're still basing your concept on fighting an alien army - if aliens are a 'player' side too, that means soldiers of one side have to wait for soldiers of the enemy side to be willing to do a match.
Or maybe you'll want to keep the turn-by-turn system ? But a 8v8 game would mean a player would play 1/16th of the time, and under the command of a leader. Hmm ... who would want to play the role of a pawn ? I doubt a pre-made mmo engine would be fit for turn-by-turn anyways. :(
The most common system of MMORPG is have players being heroes, fighting lots of small creatures, gaining level, and maybe going on PvP or RvR. I believe (I didnt check honestly) that the engine you're talking about is oriented toward that. And i really dont see how it would fit a tactical squad mission-based turn-by-turn game. :(
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If i got it right, what you're suggesting is a generic MMO, UFO:AI flavor ? each getting levels to go to RvR ?
Theres already *tons* of games like that (and I dislike this game genre).
Actually, no. Levels = grind. Grind = extreme boredom and dislike of the game. For humans, actions done for the varying nations gains credit that can only be spent in that nation, gaining gear with particular qualities. For aliens, its more generalized. Maybe alien factions/species with gear?
I suppose it would be using guns icons instead of magical spells icons ?
Well, what else would you suggest?
You're still basing your concept on fighting an alien army - if aliens are a 'player' side too, that means soldiers of one side have to wait for soldiers of the enemy side to be willing to do a match.
Well, if aliens dont make any offensive, then humans win. If humans dont defend, then aliens get to rick roll the earth.
Or maybe you'll want to keep the turn-by-turn system ? But a 8v8 game would mean a player would play 1/16th of the time, and under the command of a leader. Hmm ... who would want to play the role of a pawn ? I doubt a pre-made mmo engine would be fit for turn-by-turn anyways. :(
I agree. Turn based wouldnt work very well. Atlantica Online handles it fairly well, but its not 8 players v 8 players, and the battles are short.
The most common system of MMORPG is have players being heroes, fighting lots of small creatures, gaining level, and maybe going on PvP or RvR. I believe (I didnt check honestly) that the engine you're talking about is oriented toward that. And i really dont see how it would fit a tactical squad mission-based turn-by-turn game. :(
Yeah, thats the usual. But its not all that hard to enable PvP in all zones, and remove PvE elements. Thats not to say, however, than the entirety of the game will be players. There are ofcourse, non PHALANX elements on the human side that are best filled by NPCs, aswells as similar positions on the alien side. Guards, pilots, etc.
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I'm not exactly sure what to recommend, but I wouldn't mind seeing this.
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I'll chime in. I'd love a good MMORG like this. The flavors of sci-fi MMORG's kind of suck right now. I've been looking for a good sci-fi based one for a long time and after a big disappointment with Star Trek Online, well, having an X-Com variety would be great. The only thing I would ask is to not focus on pvp because I don't like it... though I know I'm in a minority and it will probably need some to survive.
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Im like you, Battle. I far prefer PvE, but yeah, we are kinda the minority when it comes to MORPGS. I think that, for this game in particular, without the PvP focus, it would be far to similar to the squad-based UFO:AI. Sure, if all goes well (If it even gets made), it might be a blast, and sure, certain aspects would be easier to do, but other than turning UFO:AI into a MOFPS, PvP focus is about the only way to go.
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Well, there's still the licensing issue - if you don't make a GPL game you're still going to have a big problem with content.
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With licensing issues aside
Yeah, I know
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Yeah, I know
I'll tell you what - If you really want to do such a project I can get you part of the way there, as far as content goes - meaning I can release alternate versions of the new soldier models when they are done, and some soundtracks as well under a non-exclusive license or dual license alongside the GPL, so you could use that content.
As for all the other content, SFX, graphics, music, and whatever else, all that stuff you'll need to replace with content from elsewhere, or track down the authors and beg them for permission to use that stuff in your project.
Unless, of course, you can change engines to use something that is GPL-compatible.
BTW, I remember seeing online sources for free graphics/textures that don't work with GPL but are free for freeware projects, forgive me as I don't remember exactly where they are on the net so I don't have any links handy, but that would also be a good source for content.
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When I hear the idea "lets make a MMORPG" I cant help but think of it as naive.
Making any game is usually much harder and troublesome than it seems at start, even if you use a finished engine, you should keep this in mind.
For example, take note that the graphics from UFO:AI alone are very little. Take a look at how much content does an average MMORPG offer. Its far more than what you have in most single-player games.
Those are just general warnings though. More importantly, I dont see your concept. It seems as if you dont have it though out yet yourself.
The first thing you should consider is: "what will be the fun in this game?".
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Dark, I know its hard. Believe me, I know. I wouldnt be bothering if I had to make everything from scratch.
Most MMORPGs have large teams, corporate funding, years of development, and several testing phases. Its done as a job.
This would be done just how UFO:AI is being done; more as a hobby than a job.
To be honest, no, I havent figured out everything, or even close to it. Thats why, if licensing werent an issue, it would be in the 'concept' phase.
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I think I now see what the big difference is here - you may correct me if I'm wrong vedrit - but there's talk of two very different situations going on in this thread, one being the idea of making a for-profit commercial game and the other being more of a personal, "hobby" project. When I first heard that your idea won't likely be GPL I had assumed you were shooting for the first scenario, which I apologize for.
A full-blown commercial, for-profit game obviously has to follow certain rules because it has to be successful, so that the developers (part of a large, full-time team) earn a living.
A smaller hobby project, or something done mostly for fun, doesn't absolutely have to count on being a huge success and take on all the competition, because the smaller group of developers who make it don't depend on it for their income and to pay their living expenses. The advantage, though, is that such a hobby project - because it doesn't demand world-class success - doesn't really have to follow any rules that the first scenario/case would, because it isn't critical that it attract and appeal to the majority of gamers out there.
Regardless, I do have other models I've made and other content that I haven't suggested for UFO: AI, some of which I guess I could offer to your project, although I admit it wouldn't be quite enough for a complete game.
If you consider switching engines, I've been working at learning to code in C++ with the Irrlicht engine for some time now, it is possible that down the road (but not right away) that I could contribute a little coding work - I could certainly use the experience - and that engine has been used in network and multi-player games before, including at least one MMORPG that I've heard of, as well as being available under a very liberal license fully compatible with both GPL and commercial works.
Right now I have other things on my plate I need to digest first though, and if I do help out in such a way in the future I would need help, because if I was the only coder/artist/contributor it wouldn't get done for a long time.
If you can find other people willing to help in various ways, including more content-makers, you might just be able to get your idea off the ground and going.
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Refusing to let this die, I have been looking for a GPL-compatible engine. Ogre is ranking fairly high on the list.
Also, note, that I am trying to combine RPG and FPS. Thats the way to go, I say
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Refusing to let this die, I have been looking for a GPL-compatible engine. Ogre is ranking fairly high on the list.
Also, note, that I am trying to combine RPG and FPS. Thats the way to go, I say
Yeah, I've looked at Ogre before, it's a bit slow on systems that aren't new with all the latest technology, and the programming isn't for beginners - To even have a simple room with a first-person camera moving around in it requires a lot of setup and codework just to initialize all the stuff. I'm not saying its bad - I've built Ogre-based little programs before, but it is really for the "big boys" meaning serious programmers, not for a novice at coding.
I've also played with Irrlicht, which I've mentioned before, and Crystal Space, which is complex and takes serious know-how much like Ogre.
I personally stuck with Irrlicht because it is so *easy* to use, just a few lines of simple code that is relatively easy to understand, and you have your simple room with a user-controlled camera flying around looking at stuff. It also has a simple collision system built in, and GUI stuff too. Ogre and Crystal space require 3rd party additional libraries for most of that stuff, and require large downloads with lots of initial setup work, by comparison, while Irrlicht is just one DLL file needed next to your EXE to work - if you link dynamically, because when it gets to a more final development point you can link statically and have everything packed into your one EXE.
That was my attempt at an un-biased (yeah, right...) quick review of several of the major, popular graphics engines commonly used for games.
Edit: I can tell you right now that if you're weak on coding, you'll *choke* if you try to learn Ogre or Crystal Space. You'd be better with one of the easier ones to learn (and Irrlicht isn't the only one that's much easier).
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Arg...coding...
Yeah, Irrlicht doesnt look too bad either. Have you looked at Sauerbraten?
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Making a two player version would be relatively simple. An interface for controlling the alien side and then getting rid of all AI code (basically just different buttons). Games without AI are much.. much simpler. As for MMP, well that would be a whole different story... Probably just end up as deathmatches, may as well make a different game, IMO.
The beauty of this game is its engaging story, the bells and whistles of graphical eye-candy tend to get in the way of gameplay like this which is why we dont see three billion clones of it being released every two months by big software houses.
UFO EU is probably the last game I enjoyed playing (except the civ franchise), otherwise all games are doom or command and conquer. If anyone remembers the heyday of gaming, on the Amiga, the amount of innovative games which were invented is astonishing. Then the MS windows lot moved in and everything was about the latest greatest hardware, playability and innovation have been sacrificed. If you dont own the latest hardware, you cant play the latest games, and people continue to fall for it.
You know what, thats fine by me. Ill fire up UAE or dosbox and Ill play something which entertains me, and has done for decades rather than something you play through once and never touch again. If I want to look at pretty pictures I'll go to an art gallery or I'll play Myst.
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Arg...coding...
Yeah, Irrlicht doesnt look too bad either. Have you looked at Sauerbraten?
Nope, I never researched Sauerbraten, so I can't really offer a comparison or comment on it.
If you do go with Irrlicht I can help with the coding part because I'm familiar with it, and because its easy to work with you'll probably be familiar with it as well by the time such a project gets mature.
If you go with Ogre - or Crystal Space, for that matter, I can help you just a little bit - mostly setting up the programming environment - but you would really need to recruit someone who really knows programming with Ogre, and you would have quite an uphill battle attempting to code anything.
If you go with something totally different or something not even in C++, all I could give would be a little extra artwork and some sounds and music, that's really it.
FYI I glanced at a game engine, open source, called Apocalyx (sp?) which is geared specifically for games and aimed at developers who don't know serious coding, but after trying a few demos I have to say that it is a bit limited, mostly because although much of the harder coding work is done for you it is hard to custom-tailor your game the way you really want it, leaving you stuck with "generic" or "stock" implementations of features. Also, it runs mostly on Windows and only somewhat on Linux under Wine.
Edit: If you give me a little time I can show you examples of a few things I've put together with Irrlicht, although I don't have any large, full-blown projects completed with it. I do have a third-person shooter/RPG project I've started, hopefully one day to become a cross between Deus Ex and Max Payne, but I don't have a lot of it done yet. (Mostly at this point just a single character with a few inventory objects/weapons that can run around a tiled (randomly generated) 3D map and shoot the weapons, with bullet impact marks, and change between different types of ammunition. That and the target finder/crosshairs are a little cool in a way.)
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There is a multiplayer but it dosent work because noones on
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Well....I wont be going with Irrlicht. I cant even get it to run
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Well....I wont be going with Irrlicht. I cant even get it to run
Do you mean you can't run the already-compiled and built examples (in the "bin" folder)? Or did you try to build something all by yourself (without help)?
If it's the second case, and you didn't even ask for help on what part you're stuck on, you're going to have about ten times as much trouble getting Ogre up and running (as well as many of the other, more difficult ones to work with). Irrlicht is really the easiest of the ones out there, and if you can't make it work then I don't think you'll get your idea of a project off the ground. Unless, of course, you go with one of those game-design kits that doesn't really involve programming, just lots of wizards for setting up data with pre-fab code that you can't really customize. (which would make a crappy, cheap-looking game. I know, I've looked at those.)
If you don't believe me, try getting your own Ogre program built and running from scratch. It'll be even more impossible for you.
What exactly did you try to make Irrlicht run that didn't work? I have a feeling that you tried something you weren't ready for yet and haven't given it a fair shot before jumping to a conclusion. It works on just about any modern hardware, including iPhone and XBOX as well, right out of the box - by comparison Ogre and others don't unless sometimes done with lots of modifications and advanced tweaks.
Hint: The examples - the already built and ready to go ones - require that they be run in the same, preserved folder structure as they are found in the entire downloaded .zip of the engine. They look for the "media" folder and other folders in specific places to start up and run.
If you tried to build something yourself, did you set the include directories and lib path inside your IDE? (So the compiler knows to include the engine and use it to build the program?)
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I dont even try compiling my own. Even with all the programs to make it "easy", I just cant ever seem to do it right.
Everything in the bin folder is just examples. Nothing to use to make anything that I can see
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I think you misunderstand how the engine (and other libraries as well) work. Those little .EXE files in the bin folder are supposed to be simple examples, just a little of what the engine is capable of. They're also tutorial projects that can be re-built with the documentation, so if you rebuild them in your IDE and re-compile you will know how to code those types of things.
To actually "make anything" you need two things (at least) that are *separate*, and this is true for ALL the engines, including Ogre, Crystal Space, and the others:
- You need a compiler, which is the software that actually builds the source code. Examples are MinGW (used by UFO: AI), Microsoft MSVC, Borland C++, etc.
- You need an IDE, which is a program that edits the source code files, organizes them on-screen, working a little bit like MS word or Notepad but with many additional features meant specifically for source code C and C++ files. The IDE is what tells the compiler the right commands at the command line for you to build the final EXE program. (or DLL, or whatever you're making.) UFO:AI uses Codeblocks or Eclipse for this on Windows. Microsoft makes their own, some versions are free, and others exist, some of which are free and some even open source.
Think of it this way: You are building a large house. The IDE and compiler are your tools (hammers, saws, drills, etc.) The engine is your raw materials and supplies that will make up the house (wood, metal, glass...)
All these things combined are needed to build the program. The engine by itself is just a library of source code mostly. Without the IDE and compiler you can't do too much with it, like have a huge pile of wood without the tools to make the house out of it.
The compiler and IDE, without any libraries, doesn't have anything to work with and can't just build a program out of nothing.
So it sounds like actually, yes, the Irrlicht engine examples DO run for you, you just don't have the programming tools to do anything with the engine. To say "I can't even get it to run" is senseless, blind, and deep in misunderstanding of how a 3D graphics engine works.
Ogre and the others are even worse and more difficult, because Irrlicht has a built-in collision/gravity system for models and maps, a built in GUI system, etc. With the others you need to get those things separate from other places. (Physics engine, audio/sound engine, collision engine, network library, etc.)
If you were hoping for a "universal level editor" software utility that builds a game from scratch, those don't really exist, at least none that work very good (I know, I've looked extensively.)
Nearly all the programming engines and libraries work like this.
To use any of them you *WILL* end up staring at lines of code on your screen, in some programming code language.
As a final note, game creation is very complex and takes a lot of work, even for a simple game. There isn't any "easy way out" of all that work, or any way around it. Now do you see why people can take over a year for making a dumb little 2D game?
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As a final note, game creation is very complex and takes a lot of work, even for a simple game. There isn't any "easy way out" of all that work, or any way around it. Now do you see why people can take over a year for making a dumb little 2D game?
No offense, but that is just a big "no duh"
I know its hard. It know it takes a long time. There is a saying, which is very true, that goes something like this: Anything that can be done quickly isnt worth doing.
HOWEVER, I was hoping for something like RealmCrafter, which is heavily geared towards the artistic rather than programing, meaning its a game engine, with a graphical interface similar to what you would find in a modeling program. Epic Games' UDK is close, and I'm learning it for another project, but its not GPL friendly.
I understand that for any particular project to be worth making, muchless playing, lines upon lines of code will have to be examined, edited, or flat out written. If I could do flat out scripting and coding, I'd already be working on this project and have a project or two already done. But I cant. Simply put, I just cant grasp the language and complexeties of scripting languages (Atleast without taking classes as if it were a foreign language)
All in all, Im not looking for an easy way out of the work,Im just looking for a graphical way of doing the work
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Sounds like you want XNA, it'll cost you about 1000 pounds a year to do anything serious with it. Plus extra licensing costs if you release anything, and it's entirely .NET, so Windows/XBOX only.
Just to annoy you, I get it for free but I've never used it...
Learning to program isn't as hard as it looks, ANSI C has about 30 keywords to learn for example. If you expect to read about programming and then understand it you are making some false assumptions. Like anything worth doing it takes practice and discipline, there are no shortage of tutorials out there; nobody was born knowing how to code. That isn't even the end of the story; if you don't know about vertices and matrix calculations you have some very basic reading to do.
As for game studio software, well if you get a good one it's worth its weight in gold and so you pay through the nose for it. Maybe one day the open source alternatives will overtake but it's an odd market as far as games are concerned.
Btw, i taught myself to code and I've been to uni to learn it... You are better off teaching yourself.
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I LIKE PEANUT BRITTLE! ALL HAIL WHOEVER MAKES THIS MULTIPLAYER!!!!!! WOOT!
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legendman... WTF... I mean really, WTF!
UFOAI already has working on-line play, is your firewall letting it out?
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Learning to program isn't as hard as it looks, ANSI C has about 30 keywords to learn for example. If you expect to read about programming and then understand it you are making some false assumptions. Like anything worth doing it takes practice and discipline, there are no shortage of tutorials out there; nobody was born knowing how to code. That isn't even the end of the story; if you don't know about vertices and matrix calculations you have some very basic reading to do.
Im not saying people are born to code. But some people learn it better, quicker, and more thuroughly than others. Its just one of those things about the human mind.
I'll put it this way: I struggled to learn the basics of HTML, the BASICS, from several sources.
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Vedrit,
you don't necessarily need to learn how to code to create a great game.
What you desperately need is a convincing *concept* that explains why it would be sooooo great to have an MMPORG version of UFO:AI. It's NOT enough to have some followers who say "Yeah, I'd love to see that.".
Such a concept might attract the coders, modelers, mappers, artists, (...) needed to create the game.
The coders will decide which engine to use btw.
I haven't seen such a concept in this thread so far, so you did not convince *me*.
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Duke is right - if you don't do the coding but team up with someone who does, you should let that person decide what engine and other libraries to use - if, of course, you can come up with something that stands out and attracts such a person.
If you are having trouble getting your concept to really stand out and get a coder seriously interested, perhaps you could apply your art skills and come up with some original models and other content, hopefully something that stands out in that way, so that someone who programs will want to see that model/artwork in a game and agrees with your concept. I've seen some (although not a whole lot of) programmers who want to further their coding skills and consider making a game but don't know for sure what they want to make, sometimes concerned that if they start something they might have trouble getting enough artwork and content for an idea. If such a person stumbles across what you've got so far they may very well make you an offer, although please understand that they will probably want parts of your game changed here and there or compromised on. Unless you have tons of money to hire programmers to make a game for you so you're the boss, that's something you'll have to accept and deal with.
As for your concept, the market has so friggin' many wannabe MMORPG developers already that your idea isn't really standing out.
I've seen this many times before - someone who has a burning desire to build their game idea, really wanting it to be made and not die, but not having the skill or ability to program or really build it. I'm sorry to say that in most cases I've seen either they have to learn to program, come up with a PROFOUND idea that really attracts people to help them (almost any gamer can come up with a common idea for building a game they'd like to see, I haven't seen one who can't yet), get lots of money to hire programmers to code it for them, or it just plain dies out and never gets off the ground.
Edit: As I said If you pick (or allow) an engine that I have familiarity with I'd be willing to help out some, but I'd be a "part-timer" and you would still need more people. Still, that's better than absolutely nothing. I do admit though that if I saw a more interesting game concept that really stood out I might devote more time to helping out, if it gets started.
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But this isnt a 'burning desire', just something I thought people might like. If you dont like it, then I will never be able to convince you to even play, much less work on it.
I wont try and convice anyone to work with me. If they arent convinced from the first get-go, then tough luck for me. Duke, you see lack of concept. I saw concept within the first few of my posts. If you want anything more than what details I've posted, then you want more than just concept, you want hard, 100% gurantee to work and be in the game, content. That, I cannot provide
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But this isnt a 'burning desire', just something I thought people might like. If you dont like it, then I will never be able to convince you to even play, much less work on it.
I wont try and convice anyone to work with me. If they arent convinced from the first get-go, then tough luck for me. Duke, you see lack of concept. I saw concept within the first few of my posts. If you want anything more than what details I've posted, then you want more than just concept, you want hard, 100% gurantee to work and be in the game, content. That, I cannot provide
Well, you still have some chance, you still have several options that the rest of us here have mentioned, I wouldn't give up and have such a mentality like that just yet.
As I said, I'd be willing to help some, which is better than nothing.
I didn't say that I strongly dislike or hate your idea or anything, its just that I don't think it stands out strongly enough - as it is - that it would attract enough people in the saturated on-line multiplayer gaming market.
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Vedrit,
are you talking about this:
This game would be very PvP (Player Vs. Player), and so the missions would be, for Aliens, would be mostly group assault missions, assigned by local area leaders (How they acheive that position is up to debate), or defending bases or resecuring downed UFOs (Random event). Humans would mostly be defend population (Much like the game), defend bases, capture downed craft, and assaulting Alien bases.
That's not a concept. It's merely a vague idea.
In IT business, a concept is a some 20-40 pages detailed description of what the *result* of the project will be, so a user can guess if he would want to use/play that result. Not a word about the technologys involved at this point.
Don't get me wrong. We have multiplayer, so we could (relatively) easily make it MMPORG from the technical point of view.
Try to think this way:
Let's assume I was a potential player of your MMPORG game and you'd even charge me some 10$ per month. Now tell me why should I want to play that game (insted of usng UFO:AI as is ?
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Try to think this way:
Let's assume I was a potential player of your MMPORG game and you'd even charge me some 10$ per month. Now tell me why should I want to play that game (insted of usng UFO:AI as is ?
First off, I wouldnt charge.
Secondly, I would ask "What do you like about UFO:AI as it is? Its similarities to the origional X-COM? Would you like to play as one of those soldiers, defending the Earth against alien forces with superior technology? With other players?"
Infact, I put those questions to you now. My proposal was, in essence, exactly that; playing as one of those soldiers (or aliens), with all the same plot, locations, technologies, etc etc. As was previously stated, this project isnt made to survive or thrive, just like UFO:AI.
Well, you still have some chance, you still have several options that the rest of us here have mentioned, I wouldn't give up and have such a mentality like that just yet.
As I said, I'd be willing to help some, which is better than nothing.
I didn't say that I strongly dislike or hate your idea or anything, its just that I don't think it stands out strongly enough - as it is - that it would attract enough people in the saturated on-line multiplayer gaming market.
To be honest, any help is welcome, and I know everyone is trying to help, and if someone with the know-how or know-who does this instead of me, I would be far from dissapointed. But if I'm going to have a hand in the actual production (Putting everything together into an end-product), then I have to find something I can work with. But everything I've looked at was either too heavy in code for my little mind to grasp, or wasnt compatible with GPL, which is kind of REALLY important.
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Secondly, I would ask "What do you like about UFO:AI as it is? Its similarities to the origional X-COM? Would you like to play as one of those soldiers, defending the Earth against alien forces with superior technology? With other players?"
Infact, I put those questions to you now.
What I like the most in UFO:AI is that it's a turn-based strategy game, ie. gives me enough time to think about the best *strategy*.
NO, I wouldn't like to play a single soldier if
- somebody else (an officer) decides the strategy or
- I'd have to discuss the strategy with my co-players in advance or
- there is NO strategy because every soldier can do his own thing.
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legendman... WTF... I mean really, WTF!
UFOAI already has working on-line play, is your firewall letting it out?
Well I opened the port the installe says then i go to the dedicated server noone on. Ive been to busy lately to go into the game and battle someone but ill try today
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Good Evening Vedrit.
I would like to point out that, for the people around here that do the serious work, "Game Concept" is NOT a quick "well i suggest a game where you can fight and defend earth. it will be fun yay!" kind of answer. What they meant (and have pointed out) is that you need to really think WHAT your game is actually going to be.
Starting BEFORE the plot (saving earth etc) you have to decide The genre / Type . Yeah, MMORPG, but what kind? FPS, third person strategy, team control strategy, turn based fighting Final Fantasy style, puzzle solving? will it be PVP based, PVM based, or a mix. if so, how will it work?
Allright, you have a Genre. Now, how are you going to implement it? if FPS, then forget the turn based options, and you will have just a very large Quake 3 arena (bonus points on quake engine i guess? :D). if turn based team control, then how will it work with the "massive" player numbers etc. (playing your turn then come back 4 hours later to play again isnt really fun)
Now that you have that, then you decide on the mechanics of your game. RPGs are basically a mix of Story + stats growth. so you have to figure out how will that work on your game in a balanced way (not that everyone is max level after 10 mins of plaing, but neither that you have to grind for years to get ONE level)
Then, what will be the player's options, control scheme, and in general "how the game will be played" ie. imagine yourself actually playing it. where do you click/use the keyboard etc.
Now that you have that, how will the GUI will be? it has to be "simple" enough, intuitive, have a clean and good look etc.
after all of that you can FINALLY worry about the story "you will fight as a soldier to save earth!". Story is OF COURSE important. But you need to actually have an idea of the kind of game before using a story on it. Ever had that feeling "Awesome story!!! the game sucked, but the story was great!!"?
You need to provide with ALL the details possible, so the programmers actually know what to program. Dont know programming yourself? its OK!, this process needs conceptual artists too.
In conclusion. All of this goes for the design of "almost a new game" yes, why? because as ive heard, UFO:AI ALREADY has a multiplayer option.
In order to adapt/create/port it to a MMORPG you need to do some serious thinking. And not rely on vague ideas and hoping thats enough.
Game Creating, is a "serious bussiness" (yes, even our great old school classics had a lot of thinking put in them. a lot more than on the "new" ones, as it was said already.)
Final Note: First, Sorry for the Unholy Wall Of Text of Doom. Second, Ive thought of this concept a looong time ago. so if you need suggestions or so on this MMORPG adaptation, feel free to ask.
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Thx Eaun, you described the conceptual work very well :)
Second, Ive thought of this concept a looong time ago.
If you thought about it, what was the result ?
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Thx Eaun, you described the conceptual work very well :)
If you thought about it, what was the result ?
let me guess.
"do not, ever, think about it again!!!"
at least that was the result for me when i thought that fisheye perspective would make first person playable for me.
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... when i thought that fisheye perspective would make first person playable for me.
I tried to visualize that. ROTFL.
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I tried to visualize that. ROTFL.
tried?
actually i wrote a very small program that showed me some fisheye pictures.
the projection to a sphere instead of a plane is a trivial change in some formula.
but now you can just go to youtube and search for 'fisheye quake'.
not that i liked shooters too much, just that i disliked the narrow view.
i hope this clears up the offtopic remark.