UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: Destructavator on July 10, 2009, 10:46:11 am
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Hmmm...
Well, it seems I can't model a human head very well...
I was trying to make some new heads for the new soldier models I created, it didn't come out too great.
I first created the texture on the high-poly version of an imported head from MakeHuman, took snapshots (the first two pictures below), then attempted to plaster the two pictures onto a low-poly head, shown in the last pic below, and as you can see it looks a bit disfigured.
Something tells me there's a better way of doing this in Blender that would give better results.
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With a few shape adjustments, this one might look a little less revolting...
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Destructavator,
Yupz, 2nd one indeed looks nicer.
Have u experimented with playing with the shape of the chin??
Some of the folks have sharper chin (and maybe even looked like a arching banana of sorta) whilst some have a squarer chin. Maintaining the 'tallness' of the face looks good. Try a few chins' variations? :D
Once u got those going, modifying the eyes (wider, smaller, colors) will be the first notifications (as the old chinese saying goes - the eyes defines the window to the soul). Many RPGs online also worked on giving different eyes which almost changes how the character 'looks like' alot.
Then working on the lips (thickness, arching upwards / downwards - giving a serious or sad or emotionless look).
Lastly, the eyebrows also plays quite a part (3 varieties? Thickness - Thick, med, thin almost 1 liner).
:D
Oh, in case where these were inspired....
http://www.worldthinktank.net/pdfs/FacialRecognitionCountermeasures.pdf
(Along with many of the links within)
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nice - looks a lot better already.
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OK, I finally figured it out, and got a really good generic head in Blender, with a high-detail texture on all sides mapped onto a low-poly mesh. This model has a vertex count of only 109, and edge count of only exactly 300 (not intentional, just a coincidence).
Adding scalp hair and varying the features should be rather easy - at this point, now that I know how to do it, it should be easy to make lots of different heads now.
I'm going to separate this .blend file from the soldier body models, and upload it soon, just as a backup.
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OK, I finally figured it out, and got a really good generic head in Blender, with a high-detail texture on all sides mapped onto a low-poly mesh. This model has a vertex count of only 109, and edge count of only exactly 300 (not intentional, just a coincidence).
Adding scalp hair and varying the features should be rather easy - at this point, now that I know how to do it, it should be easy to make lots of different heads now.
I'm going to separate this .blend file from the soldier body models, and upload it soon, just as a backup.
Ah, nice work on the cheeks area. :D Looks nicer now indeed! Well done!
I look forward to see some stout guys and slim curvy gals. lol. :D
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Ha! Finally got the scalp hair working - sort of. All I need now is to shape the hair some more and play with the color controls to fix the fubar colors, unless of course we want to say that our soldiers use Manic Panic hair dye (or something equally ridiculous that I wouldn't personally suggest)... :P
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Nice work Destuctavator! You're making great progress in your work here. I'm not an official here but I love what you've shown so far and hope it gets used!
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Just my two cents but the lips are a bit too wide. Also can you make them more fierce looking? They look too mannequin-like at the moment. Or is this a software limitation? Otherwise, the general look is ok.
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Just my two cents but the lips are a bit too wide. Also can you make them more fierce looking? They look too mannequin-like at the moment. Or is this a software limitation? Otherwise, the general look is ok.
I actually tried to alter the lips myself several times, its really difficult to change them in a way that doesn't mess up the rest of the face. If I alter one feature, it seems to throw others out of proportion very quickly - but I'll try again at some point.
Nice work Destuctavator! You're making great progress in your work here. I'm not an official here but I love what you've shown so far and hope it gets used!
Thanks!
I've figured out the hair, gotten the scalp almost about right, pictures attached.
These are orthographic views, when the pictures are plastered onto the low-poly head and put in the game the curves of the haircut and such should look better. Also, the crap under the head will of course be omitted in the final head - they are just left-overs from the original head mesh imported from MakeHuman.
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Well, I managed to get the eyebrows and lashes to look less fake, different technique, but I'm not too confident yet in the way it looks on the low-poly version - I don't think the low poly copy (second screenshot) came out as good as it could have.
I did some research on different ways of mapping high-detail textures onto low-poly objects, I think I might try a different method of doing it later, but for now I need a break!
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Figured it out - at least partially - I accidentally left out some lighting that resulted in un-even lighting in different areas, which made the low-poly copy's texture look so awful.
I fixed that, figured out some more hair styles, made some other fixes too - Yes, I know on the side views the eyelashes and eyebrows look like they stick out a bit, but the final product won't have that.
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lol, the low poly looks good actually! I like it better then the high poly version.
the problem is your running into what psychologists and artists call the "the uncanny valley". The human brain has developed very sensitive facial feature recognition centers. You hit a point where as things get more detailed your brain stops noticing what is right about the face and starts focusing more on what is wrong... making it more detailed can make it worse, sometimes simpler is better! A simple face our brains fill in the gaps and fools itself into thinking its a a friendly/good face. the more realistic it gets the less room for your brain to fill in the blanks and it ends up tripping over the wrongness more.
sometimes suggestive is better then representational! The smaller faces for the low poly version lose detail and move out of "the uncanny valley".
cheers!
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lol, the low poly looks good actually! I like it better then the high poly version.
the problem is your running into what psychologists and artists call the "the uncanny valley". The human brain has developed very sensitive facial feature recognition centers. You hit a point where as things get more detailed your brain stops noticing what is right about the face and starts focusing more on what is wrong... making it more detailed can make it worse, sometimes simpler is better! A simple face our brains fill in the gaps and fools itself into thinking its a a friendly/good face. the more realistic it gets the less room for your brain to fill in the blanks and it ends up tripping over the wrongness more.
sometimes suggestive is better then representational! The smaller faces for the low poly version lose detail and move out of "the uncanny valley".
cheers!
Thanks! I'm glad you told me about that - it would sure explain some things I've noticed when looking at the model in Blender from various angles and distances. I'll keep this in mind as I work on the soldier heads.
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Did It!
- Finally got the texture put on a working low-poly copy without any serious screw-ups!
In the screenshots the low-poly version is on the left, the high-poly (which can be used for cinematics and such) is on the right.
I forget how many polys are in the lower version, I think its around ~300 or so, the high-detail one has upwards of ~1600 or something.
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Ah! Destructavator,
That last post looks so much better now - as compared with the higher res ones for me. The higher res ones look very 'computer graphiced' whilst these latest ones look so much more 'game-like natural'.
I like esp the development on the hair - haha, its very much like mine - GI style and crew cut (when i was in NS). Cool! Lol. Army man should be like that - clean crew cuts, nothing punkish, nor business like.
In fact, it might even be cooler if u think of adding a significant scar for some (on face / hands in future), whilst others get a tinge of shade for the eyes (as in eye colors, dun read too deep into that. :P)
Nice work Destructavator!! I look forward to see more of these works!
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You've made the lips smaller. Nice work!
I've also nailed what has been bothering me --- you've spaced the lower and upper eyelids too far apart resulting in the entire pupil being seen. With normal eyes you don't see the upper and lower edges of the pupil. To put into perspective:
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1849829/2/istockphoto_1849829_hazel_eye.jpg
http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~svickers/images/eye.jpg
Always the top and bottom parts are covered by the lids.
Also, I think it's asking to much but if you could thin out the upper lip, it'd be awesome!
(Jim Lee's work follow the above convention: http://www.heroesandvillainscomics.net/images/BatmanHush.jpg http://batsite29.free.fr/fdecran/batman.hush_b.jpg thin upper lip, normal lower lip)
I hope that helps.
Keep up the good job!
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I think the eyebrows may still be a little too prominent. Also, the chin and general space around the face seems rather wide, but that may be a result of little hair.
It definitely looks like some people do, just not very "average" yet. The thing with faces is that we are so used to reading them in every detail that it is hard to say what exactly looks odd...
Maybe it's too symmetrical. That's another thing that often separates artifical faces from real ones.
And I don't know if it is any help, but I found that playing around with the face generator from Fallout 3 made me more aware of the things that make people look different, like how far apart their eyes are, and what change causes what effect.
Different face shapes (http://www.christinaloves.com/wp-content/uploads/face-shapes-thumb.jpg) are a good way to differentiate people with otherwise similar features, for example.
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Hmmm, i have some links which i am not too sure if it helps. Its very technical, but its technology and facial recognition stuff. Dun give up until the page 5 where it gives pretty good and interesting insights into computer facial recognition, it might help u wif ur current work. :D
PDF File 1 (http://www.informatik.unibas.ch/personen/romdhani_sami/sgd_fg02.pdf)
Another one here, go straight to somewhere page 7 or 8, where esp color schemes for diff race helps.
PDF File 2 (http://homepages.cwi.nl/~salah/spie07alternative.pdf)
For a whole lot more, a frd of mine recommended a site to u. She's in computer animation.....
Facial Recognition Database (http://www.face-rec.org/databases/)
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i dont know if this is helpfull at all: http://www.faceresearch.org
but as a registered user you can upload your own faces, getting an average face out of selected faces and so on...
maybe helpfull for the face textures or something?? i havent read the whole post, sorry for just posting here :P
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7677/facess.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7677/facess.jpg)
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Thanks to all of you for the advice and links!
I also just downloaded and tried the nightly Linux build of the all-new MakeHuman program, and while still in alpha phase they already have many new models with different ethnic settings, and they just implemented export into OBJ - I'm glad they finally developed it this far because the several-years-old version I used previously for this head (in the pics in this thread) produced very clunky, hard-to-work-with models that couldn't be varied too much.
The newer MakeHuman model heads are much easier to shape, change, and they don't have tons of extra and unnecessary polys like the old one that I had to work out by hand.
The links are still very good though, as they'll give me ideas for various new heads.
As a side note, I can also use the modeling technique I used to put photographs of *real* people onto low-poly heads - I actually thought about doing this, effectively putting real people (whomever would volunteer) inside the game, then adding variations of hair color etc. (by first doctoring the photos), but I didn't know if enough people would volunteer.
If this idea interests any of you - putting real faces from developers and contributors inside the game - you're more than welcome to start a list of volunteers and if enough people sign up I'll go that route. Also, I can alter the facial shape of models from real photos as well, so there's no need to worry if you think your face might not look too good as it is for a soldier. (Heck, myself I've gained a bit of weight and now consider myself to be "ability-to-fit-into-a-chair-with-arms-on-it-without-the-employment-of-a-shoehorn-impaired", but altering such characteristics shouldn't be too hard.) Also, I'd be willing to alter the shape anyhow if you don't want to be recognized, for privacy purposes (If such a thing is done I can accept private emails of photos).
Please do not simply start taking pictures and sending them though, as they need to be done in certain ways and at specific angles.
Otherwise, I'm just going to use the new MakeHuman models and work from those.
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An intriguing thought.
Though I do not like spreading pictures of myself on 'net, it would be an honor to appear in the game. If that is really going to happen.
The only problem would be that if all the soldiers end up being people who contribute here, who am I going to send in first? :D
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The only problem would be that if all the soldiers end up being people who contribute here, who am I going to send in first?
LOL! I didn't think of that...
In a single-player game, it doesn't matter since only the one player sees what happens and can pretend afterward - In light of your question I just realized that this could make a multi-player experience more ...interesting, especially when one of the players is a developer or contributor who volunteered their face...
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LOL! I didn't think of that...
In a single-player game, it doesn't matter since only the one player sees what happens and can pretend afterward - In light of your question I just realized that this could make a multi-player experience more ...interesting, especially when one of the players is a developer or contributor who volunteered their face...
Haha, i can imagine in the future, when soldier's face might display fear / panic, the face changes accordingly..... and its one of us here! lol. I would love to see that. Aniwae, its a sidetrack. lol
I dun thnk i make very 'garang' kind, haha, but i can though. (garang - malay word for ehmmmm..... brave, charging, valor, doing it, something along that line, transition is not always easy)
Destructavator, u mentioned shots needed to be taken at a certain angle? Like eg? lol. And wat kind of resolution do u need? Size also?
Also, are we thinking of randomly picking ppl from the internet? :P Eg, Mr bill gate or donald trumph or Hellkitchen's Ramsay? lol. they have pretty unique profiles. lol. Imagine their corporation got attacked and they become the 'civilian'. lol.
Or imagine US defense secretary Robert Michael, or deceased (though i rather respect the dead) famous ppl like einstein? :P
Okie, i am hungry, and imagining too many offtopic stuff. :P
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Mr bill gate or donald trumph
Make those infected civilians please. ;)
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Yeah, that would be interesting if we used high-profile people like that... ;D
More seriously though, if we were to use real faces they would have to be people who volunteer and consent or in some way give permission to have their faces put in the game, keeping in mind the open license the game is released under and how such head models could be passed around the net.
For now I'll use MakeHuman - If you want to volunteer your face then start a list, but don't just start sending pictures until/unless the list gets big enough. (We would need enough of both male and female face photos.)
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Yeah, that would be interesting if we used high-profile people like that... ;D
More seriously though, if we were to use real faces they would have to be people who volunteer and consent or in some way give permission to have their faces put in the game, keeping in mind the open license the game is released under and how such head models could be passed around the net.
For now I'll use MakeHuman - If you want to volunteer your face then start a list, but don't just start sending pictures until/unless the list gets big enough. (We would need enough of both male and female face photos.)
What do u thnk of this:
If its agreeable on the map-coders / renderers / game developers side, we can consider generating 'mock-Microsoft Towers', 'Pentagon', 'Wall Street' kinda high profile maps. (Or for fun's sake, consider 7 wonders of the world? Lol, afterall, dun we have many movies trying to get these LIBERTY STATUES scenes on? Lol)
Then, we can consider writing in formally to some of the corporations and seek permission to use the face of high profile folks for permissions (with credits of course) on the gameset? If required, i can always help to draft letters. Lol. :P
Cools?
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let's focus on getting it done. Re-skinning some heads will be child's play to put faces in later.
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Coolest thing would be if the user could insert this at playing time... ;D
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Special missions at histsorical locations would be nice, though those maps will not be used a lot.
And as for asking the people... I think making players protect "some very wealthy software company CEO" called "Will Windows" should suffice. ;)
But like Phil said, I don't believe this kind of stuff has any priority.