UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: vedrit on February 18, 2009, 11:49:26 pm
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Looking over the males animation, it looks like there is a fire-from-shoulder animation. its frames 135 to 143
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Ok. What about other models (aliens too ;) ) ?
-geever
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While you're at it, consider making prone animations too (stationary, moving, shooting, etc). We don't have any support for this yet, so you might want to consult with mattn about which frames to use etc.
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I actually managed to (kind of) import some of the soldier body models into blender and create (and attach) an armature/skeleton for making new animations a week or two ago, although I didn't upload or link to anything because I think I made some mistakes here and there, and mucked it up a bit.
Still, if you (or anyone else) want, I'm willing to dig through my files later today, upload it, and let people here play with the .blend files for anyone who wants to build more animations. I was going to do more work on it and hopefully have additional animations to propose, but I just haven't had the time lately, as I've been involved in multiple little side projects and can only handle so much.
I've gotta warn you, however, that I'm not a veteran 3D modeler - The .blend files I put together might save you time, but then again they might not.
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I wont pester ya for em. Im not exactly veteran either, but I have some history with Blender and Maya (I, unfortunatly, only use Blender at home. Cant fork out $2k for a single license for Maya, which I have more experiance with)
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(Sorry for the double post)
Female soldier: 135-143
Ortnok: 135-143
Taman: 135-143
I think I see a pattern here
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(Again, sorry for the multiple post)
Actually Dest. I think I will. I looked into animation in Blender, and Im not sure how to get the armiture to constrain to body parts, since the whole body is highlighted when i select any part
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So whats the process here.
Lets say someone like vedrit confirms that there are indeed animations for shoulder fire... is that really the meat of it? Is there additional code required to make it all work or is that not a big issue?
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Oh, Im sure that there is coding required. Its not like the game knows where the end of the barrel is, but the fact that the animation is there really helps move things along. Atleast now a code can be made with the assurity that there is an animation to go with it
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Oh, Im sure that there is coding required. Its not like the game knows where the end of the barrel is, but the fact that the animation is there really helps move things along. Atleast now a code can be made with the assurity that there is an animation to go with it
Also one of the devs mentioned prone.... like if there was a prone animation they could throw that in as well.. It would be strange, since X-Com never had prone, but it could certainly be neat to have.
So is it confirmed that all models have a shoulder fire animation or are there still some out there that do not?
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@verdit: not arguing just ask: does sheevar has it either?
-geever
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Geever: Does what have what? Shoulder-fire? I think that all the models do. If u want, I can check em all
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I found the .blend files I was playing with... about several dozen of them, as I made various versions. It'll take me a little longer to sort through them, pack all the external data in, and upload something, but I did find them.
Regarding the "Sheevar," that's one of the alien races in the game.
I also agree that a "prone" position would be nice, as well as perhaps a slow crawl to move while staying down.
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Yes, the Shevaar has shoulder-fire animation.
Destructavator, how did you attach armitures to the models?
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Well, I don't claim to be an expert at blender so I could be a bit off when I say this, but from what I've found there are two main points to attaching armature to models in Blender: Before making an armature to attach I'd suggest creating and naming the vertex groups, dependent on what bones you plan to have where. For example, in the blend files I put together, I'd select every vertex that makes up the upper arm, name it "U L Arm" for "upper left arm" or something, another I'd call "L L Arm" for "lower left arm" and so on.
Once these groups were created, then I'd make the armature inside the model, the key is to name each of the bones with the exact same name as the vertex groups after making all the parts of the armature.
Then, once the groups are done and the armature is done, the next step is very easy: Just use the "make parent" with the two objects - the armature/bones and the actual model, so that when the bones are moved the model goes with it. (Select both the model and the armature objects, so that they both end up selected at the same time, then use the "make parent.") Don't use the automatic group-naming/creating options, just attach the armature. Those automatic options mean the computer tries to guess which bones attach to which nearest vertex, which often results in mistakes and therefore mucked up animations.
If all the bones and vertex groups were done right, it is then very easy to go into the "pose" mode which will appear and then simply rotate the bones to animate the model very quickly. The hard part is getting the groups and armature right, which is where I messed up a little. Once all that work is done the actual animations are very easy.
If the animations don't work right, you don't have to start all over, you can always remove a vertex from a group and put it into another so it follows a different bone.
I apologize if you already knew some of this, I didn't know which parts you do and don't know.
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Actually, I knew very little of it. THank you.
Oh, and I didnt mention this before, but the models also have a crouching shoot-from-shoulder animation
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Here's one of the most recent up-to-date yet still messed-up ones, I also have another that would help but is a little too large to attach directly to this post, hang on a sec...
Edit: Here it is (the other is attached directly to the post, farther down):
http://www.destructavator.com/92dl/ufo_soldier_male_Wbones_1d.zip
These two files do have issues - for one, a few vertexes* are in the wrong groups, so some of the "joints" are a little off, messing up animations (I haven't had time to correct each one). Also, I can't get the skeleton armature to stay with the model in the existing animations, so in one of these files you'll notice that I attached the armature to the last ending frame for adding on additional poses at that ending point and onwards.
I hope these examples help you figure out how to (properly) animate these models as well as the rest - good luck!
BTW, once you get the bones properly set up, I'd suggest (to the devs as well) also having additional "idle" animations, picked at random by the game (subtle movements), as right now when soldiers stand in once place waiting for orders they all move slightly up and down in sync, looking like they are dancing to music when many are in once place on the battlescape. Just a suggestion, although before implementing this I would first check with Mattn, BTAxis, etc.
*(This is probably the wrong plural form of "vertex" but my browser's spell check isn't giving me the right clues, sorry for the bad English.)
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I was thinking about what I would do for idle.
Way ahead of ya on that, lol
Thanks for the models. I'll load em up and see what I can do
And Dest, I think you can put the armature outside the model for easier animation. I personally dont like viewing in wirefram, lol
EDIT: As I begin animating the motion for the soldier to go prone, I notice that his hip and back joints are not connected. Move one, and it wont move the other, and I have no idea how to fix this
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And Dest, I think you can put the armature outside the model for easier animation. I personally dont like viewing in wirefram, lol
I had no idea that it would work unless it was inside - the way I learned it was from various tutorials that used armature on the inside with wireframe. I guess it shows how much I (don't) know about 3d modeling programs.
EDIT: As I begin animating the motion for the soldier to go prone, I notice that his hip and back joints are not connected. Move one, and it wont move the other, and I have no idea how to fix this
Yeah, that's another area where I messed up, as well as putting a vertex here and there in the wrong group.
I'd imagine that the two armature sections could be joined together just like any two objects, although I don't recall exactly what the command to merge/join/connect them is. In fact, I think there's more than one command, although which one works for armature I really don't know, so you'll have to use Google for some research, post a question on a blender forum, or delete the armature and create your own (but keep the vertex groups to save time) unless someone else here knows (sorry!).
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Well, I managed to make somesort of workaround using another armature and parenting.
You want it? The only thing thats changed, that I notice, is that if u move the waist, it will move it all, instead of just everything below the waist
Well, after remaking the bones, and figuring it all out, Im finally getting somewhere.
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Nice. One suggestion: If you want to add potential for the characters manipulating objects better, you might want to add bones to each hand for fingers, so the "mittens" can open and close around things, depending on exactly what animations you add.
Looks like you've gotten much farther than I have, glad you got it to work, although I admit I'm not in a position to judge much as I'm not the boss but one of the little guys here...
BTW, when the models have armatures set up and everything, you may want to (if you have time down the road) look into the ideas proposed for an intro animation ROQ video, as a number of ideas started but fizzled out, and I remember Winter had started a script some time ago, so you may want to check with him when you get to that point.
As far as the cinematic cut-scenes go, I still have the tools and such to make ROQ videos out of other video formats (AVI, MPEG, Whatever, including formats made by Blender rendered animations) so I can help with that when the time comes, if you're up to that in the future.
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Sounds like something I can do.
We could even make movie-quality models for the animation. Some more verticies here, smoothing there, and BAM! lol
Well, I think I have everything worked out on the model, and figured out its particulars. I'll begin modeling prone later, after some sleep
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There's an 'x-ray' visual mode for armatures that lets you see them through the mesh even when it's not in wireframe. In that screenshot you posted, it's in the bottom-left corner in the Armature tab, under Editing Options.
You can parent one bone to another in edit mode. Under the Armature Bones tab, there will be a dropbox labeled child of [--]. The [--] is a dropbox and you can pick the bone you want to parent to.
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Lol
way ahead of ya. I've worked with Blender before, so I know about "x-ray" and editing mode, and I've already figure out the bones. Like I say, I'll begin animating soon.
EDIT: Alright, this is kinda annoying....Someone did something to a group of verticies to make them "collapse". This is bad for going into a prone position as it exposes the bone and looks VERY bad. I dont know what might happen if I delete them, and I dont think it would go well
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anyone have the models with origional bones, or a suggestion?
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All of our source models are in the data_source repository. If it isn't in there, we don't have it.
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I may have overlooked it, but I didnt see it
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Prone position. I think there's a reason why it never got into x-com. Prone guy should hog two tiles, right? Wouldn't an x-com operative taking two tiles of space create an issue or two?
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It got into X-Com 3 already though....
-geever
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I think that a soldier walking past another soldier who is prone should simply cost for AP, and no standing/sitting/prone. A walk-only location.
Regardless, its going to be very hard to model any more animations. Who ever was last working on the male model made a problem on some vertecies. The only solution I can think of is re-making either the leg(s) or the whole body
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Sounds good to me. Get cracking.
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if the problem was introduced in some update... we have a version history - you can go back and grab the first version of a model.
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I looked in the revision history, and couldnt find it, hence my earlier post when I said I didnt find it.
And I would re-make it, but my skills tend to lie in animating and lighting, or making simple modles
EDIT: I found the same model, with the same problem, going all the way back to revision 1377
If the origional of this model could be found, that would go a long ways. If the body.md2 was renamed, that could also help me find what Im looking for
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i wasn't talking about the md2 file here - i was talking about the source files: http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/data_source/models/characters/ (though i'm not sure whether the model you are searching has a source file commited)
if you can't work on characters - animating trees and animals would be cool, too.
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It doesnt look to be the same model. Are you changing soldier models?
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i'm sorry - maybe i'm just blind, but i couldn't find any reference (except the body.md2) to the model you are refering here.
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well, the file name is the same, yes, but the model within that file is different. I've posted screenshots of the character I have, and I think is the current model. The other models are...not the same. Not saying they are bad, just not the same
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I ran into this myself back when I attempted to create new animations.
Some of the basic soldier models being used in-game do not have any source files in the "data source" folder, I'm guessing they are very old and the source was lost or not provided by the people who started the project.
Sitters and I think a few others more recently in the last year or so created some alternate soldier models, I think mostly for non-player units, which are in the data source but have not been put into the game.
I hope this sheds some light on the issue, if I'm correct.
Considering how old and out-dated the player models are, and the fact there is no source, it *might* be worth it to just create new player soldier bodies, considering the fact that people have talked about new armor and new animations, etc. Of course, this would take some modeling work.
If this idea is pursued by modelers who have the time, one tool that might help is the open-source "MakeHuman" which is on sourceforge and already has a tech preview that mostly works available for download, a totally new version that I believe has a compatible license. I played around with that program before - It can easily be used to make models of people quickly, which can be simplified easily to reduce polycount, then it isn't hard to add clothing. (And the models can go right into Blender.)
An alternative would be to hunt down the old developers and ask for the source for the player soldier models...
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If anyone wants to make a new soldier (and/or other characters) I'd more than happy to give them life (animate)
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I *might* be able to help there, as I've already played with Blender and MakeHuman in the past and have some models floating around on my hard drives, some of which could be adapted to work with the current soldier heads to make new soldiers for this game, although given that I'm working on more than one thing at once it might take me longer than it would for someone else to come up with something. The biggest barrier I've come across with my own models is creating textures.
If someone good at texturing and colors can help, I can probably come up with some draft model proposals hopefully in the next few days that are untextured.
Is there a rough, ballpark limit to polycount that should be followed?
Edit: Here (attached, char1) is one of my older models, in it the vast majority of the polycount is from the head, so if the head was taken out the body and clothing might be good for a civilian model of some type. Feel free to play around with it.
Edit: Here (char1b) is a slightly modified version with a jacket instead of a long coat.
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Forgot to mention, if either of these seem useful and others could build upon them, what type of license works best with models like these?
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I think that, unless we want to change our soldiers from contemprary soldiers to more like "Syndicate" agents (Made by Bullfrog in the 1990's), char1b would be our choice, plus some more polys to the body.
Char1 wouldnt be bad, though the head has way too many polys
Do you have MSN or Yahoo? I'd like to be able to talk to you quicker
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As I said, these would be better for civilians or staff.
Char1 wouldnt be bad, though the head has way too many polys
As I also just said:
in it the vast majority of the polycount is from the head, so if the head was taken out the body and clothing might be good for a civilian model of some type. Feel free to play around with it.
The head would be taken out anyways if this was used, because in UFO: AI the bodies and heads are seperate, so this wouldn't be an issue. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Do you have MSN or Yahoo? I'd like to be able to talk to you quicker
At the moment no, unfortunately. That and I've never gotten used to IM programs. (Sorry!)
I'll also mention that these are older models that I didn't fully finish, although I could go back to working on them...
Perhaps we should wait until BTAxis, Mattn, and the others come back in the morning where they are (not sure what time zones they are in) and comment on a game plan.
Oh, and yes, I played Syndicate extensively back in the '90s, loved it, and only briefly played the sequel re-incarnation of it. But yes, I agree it is a totally different type of game theme and such.
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I know those are more suited for civ or staff character, but I still think it would be interesting.
At any rate, those characters would be a great starting point for a new model.
And I enjoyed the Syndicate...the first one...the others were...meh...
But the thing that made me make the reference is that, in essence, the characters arent that different. As game development progresses, implants are going to be made available (I could be wrong), they both run around killing in squads of set max amounts, etc etc.
Perhaps we could try these models, after polishing them up a bit, and see what everyone else thinks
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I agree, yes, with some work these models could potentially be turned into something the game could use.
That and I also agree the first Syndicate game was much better.
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well, while you, and/or anyone else works on the models, I'll prepare the bones
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Remember to post screens from time to time. New artwork is always good to have a look at.
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Here are screenshots of the Blender files as they are.
Again, these are old, and they were not originally created for UFO: AI, and if they are adapted into something for this game the high-poly crappy head will be taken out, among other changes.
Notice the hands have fingers, unlike the "mittens" the current models have, which allows for animations for pressing buttons and other stuff, and the polycount actually isn't real high once the head is taken out.
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i don't know whether we need fully modelled hands - as we don't have support for bones and can't form the fingers correct for every weapon.
also the foots looks a little bit big (maybe only from that perspective?).
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i don't know whether we need fully modelled hands - as we don't have support for bones and can't form the fingers correct for every weapon.
Well, the fingers could still be animated together like the mittens on the existing models for firing and weapon-using animations, even without bone support in the game engine it wouldn't come out any different for such animations in-game, so this wouldn't be a problem. The fingers could then be animated individually only for special animations not currently in the game (such as pressing a button or doing something else special). In other words, the hands don't have to be modeled for every single weapon, so it shouldn't be an issue. (If this sounds unclear, let me know and I'd be glad to rephrase and elaborate on that.)
also the foots looks a little bit big (maybe only from that perspective?).
Yeah, the feet do look a little funny, fortunately that's easy to fix.
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That does bring up an important point. How specific can I be in model rigging?
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well - fingers and foots must not be rigged imo. and keep in mind that you only have to rig the body - as the head is a different mesh model.
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I've made some progress in making new soldier models in Blender, I'll start a new thread with details.