UFO:Alien Invasion
Technical support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: larson on February 16, 2008, 09:58:28 pm
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If we are going to individually recruit scientists I have a suggestion. After the recruiting interface and some other interfaces get cleaned up, the scientists could get individual skills. A few examples would be:
- Vehicles and v.weapons
- Alien biology and theory
- Personal equipment (guns and armor)
- Quantum physics (alien tech theory)
This would introduce some resource mgmt for the research too. It wouldn't be necessary to make a ton of difference, just let those good at managment gain a day or two in the research of a big topic. Remember, we use the best of mankind, they can do any research, but is bound to be more skilled in some field of science.
While we're at it, make that research guy that write the reports a fixed member of that research staff (first in the list), and max his stats in all subjects. He should be the best scientist that mankind could find in the 2080's, so let him have his 15 minutes (and put some developers mug on his model skin) :-)
By the way, is it some model limitation that makes both scientists and medics look the same? I'd suggest a white thigh length labcoat for the scientists and maybe white trousers and short sleeve shirt for the medics. Possibly medic green for them. That long coat they are using now gives me the shivers...
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I've been toying with a similar idea, but one that takes skills even further ;D Just have one "class" of employee (Agents) and have skills for Science, Medicine, Piloting, etc... "Dammit, all my soldiers just bought it. Dare I press my researchers into a Terror response unit and risk them getting killed?"
My suggestion is just blue-sky thinking Thanks for listening! :D
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If we are going to individually recruit scientists I have a suggestion. After the recruiting interface and some other interfaces get cleaned up, the scientists could get individual skills.
The purpose is to make optimizing research a big pain?
The focus is the squad-based tactics. Trying to cram as much detail into the secondary aspects of the game hurts the whole, IMHO.
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The purpose is to make optimizing research a big pain?
The focus is the squad-based tactics. Trying to cram as much detail into the secondary aspects of the game hurts the whole, IMHO.
Optimizing it should be a bit of extra work. But you wouldn't lose much by just defaulting your research work. As it is now, you cannot make any improvments in research speed, short of employing more scientists and building more labs. If you use weapon specialists to research blaster rifle, you would gain a day or two of research time. If you use biologists to do the same research you have to wait a bit longer.
Let's say todays stats let a 10 man lab research an item in 20 days. Let that be skill level 80, the average of all skills for any given scientist. Four skills gives 320 points to share , with a max of 100. The above average research team have 800 skill in one subject and work 20 days, which gives 16000 skill points used. Now manage your lab teams with a better team for this subject, get the scientists with 88 skill points. Now you decrease the research time to about 18 days.
The easy way to manage this is of course to put different teams in different labs and send them the items to research according to their skill. To try to keep a complete skill roster at one base and try to set up a team for each different subject would surely be a pain. Instead you will have one base to research weapons, one to research aliens and so on. When a branch get exhausted you can reorganize your teams, they all have all skills, just in different numbers.
I would like it...
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I would like it...
I would not. I agree with eleazer, it would make researching much more complicated.
Furthermore, i dont like to be pushed into some direction by luck: I have my fixed and optimized research order right now. If i got the fitting scientist with the right skills...lucky me...if not...i would not care to change my priorities cause some research it just MUCH more important than other (e.g. research towards nanotech armor vs. infos about aliens).
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But: it would make the single-player game more re-playable...
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But: it would make the single-player game more re-playable...
If the player is tired of the core game, i doubt the ability to shuffle scientists will draw him back.
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You misunderstand, I think :) Each start of the game would present the player with (effectively) a different research tree. One game it may be quicker to research weapons, the next autopsies.
Re-playability has been a major factor for the original UFO games still being popular, 10 years after they were written. I've played through UFO:EU three or four times, and it is how I found this game :P
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You misunderstand, I think :) Each start of the game would present the player with (effectively) a different research tree. One game it may be quicker to research weapons, the next autopsies.
But for me this factor would simply annoy me endlessly. I dont WANT to research autopsies at the beginning, and even if i got HUGE boni I wouldnt do it, cause weapons and armor are simply MUCH more important. A completed autopsy wont kill any alien better nor will it protect your soldiers. And thats what the game is about.
If I would be lucky to get some scientist with better weapon and armor research rate, it would make the game easier, fine. If not: well, normal difficulty. I dont see how this will add any replay value. If you want to increase the replay value, a customization of the settings (alien frequency, their strength, funding etc.) might be a better idea. Furthermore, an increased randomization of missions and events will do a better job, without making research more complicated...
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Fair enough -- I was just suggesting that this would mean the same strategy would not be optimal in every game. For me, part of the replayability is playing using a different strategy. If I can play the same game as before, I think "why bother"? :)
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Fair enough -- I was just suggesting that this would mean the same strategy would not be optimal in every game. For me, part of the replayability is playing using a different strategy. If I can play the same game as before, I think "why bother"? :)
To make this work, there has to be an actual alternative...so IF autopsies would lead to some equally useful techs, this approach might work...
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I was also playing with the idea to give a skill property to the scientists (medics, workers). Not a differenced one (biology,quantum physics....) just a simple number (like xcom3). Then the player could make a "research dream team". :)
But if we have limited number of recruits it can be problematic. (sorry, I don't really know how this limit works now as I don't have so much men.)
If we leave this unchanged the individual recruitment will be meaningless (for these types). If they are all-the-same research droids a more&less button could do the job (as in XCOM1,2).
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If we leave this unchanged the individual recruitment will be meaningless (for these types). If they are all-the-same research droids a more&less button could do the job (as in XCOM1,2).
Bingo!
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If we leave this unchanged the individual recruitment will be meaningless (for these types). If they are all-the-same research droids a more&less button could do the job (as in XCOM1,2).
Hear, hear!
That's just what I was trying to get to. I was getting a bit ahead of the system in xcom:apocalypse (3) in my thinking, but a system with just a general research skill would be a nice improvement. Even though I would like to make one alien lab, one weapons lab and more...
By the way, I consider apocalypse an excellent game with horrible graphic design. I'd like to see many features from there implemented here too... I liked the way you hired and fired staff all the time, and also the way you pissed those cultists off always :-)
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You misunderstand, I think :) Each start of the game would present the player with (effectively) a different research tree. One game it may be quicker to research weapons, the next autopsies.
That wasn't my idea. Same tree always. Average skill of scientists always same. But you do have the possibility to tune your science teams to improve speed. Put those biology hotshots in one team, and you cut up to 20% off research time on aliens. If you cannot be arsed to check their stats, you probably end up with same time as always (if you didn't hire a bunch of losers). And you could also get a hot new science recruit with top skills. Kick one of your old bad ones out and hire the new guy instead. (That would need a punishing cost for hiring new staff compared to just keep paying your current staff, to be interesting).
If you can hire soldiers for skill you should be able to do it with other staff too. Personally, I do not currently care for the skill of soldiers, I think the interface is too cumbersome right now. I hire from the top down and hope I will do fine. With a smooth interface I guess I would change that. My science skill idea need a smooth interface too, or it will be useless...
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I would not. I agree with eleazer, it would make researching much more complicated.
Furthermore, i dont like to be pushed into some direction by luck: I have my fixed and optimized research order right now. If i got the fitting scientist with the right skills...lucky me...if not...i would not care to change my priorities cause some research it just MUCH more important than other (e.g. research towards nanotech armor vs. infos about aliens).
Not much more complicated. A little bit... :-)
I can understand your ideas of having found the perfect way of research. You wouldn't have to change that a bit. Just look at your current science recruits and choose the ones that makes your path the fastest. Choose the guys with high ratings in "personal equipment (weapons and armor)" and skip the biologists. Later in the game when you have a bunch of aliens in hold, you can hire a team of biologists, and turn the bugs inside out. And in worst case, with random (pseudo random) assignments you should get at least the same research speed you have today.
Since we are choosing from the best of the best, spread could be from maybe 60 to 100%, with the level of todays scientists at 80%. And the average for one scientist is at that 80% with all skills counted. If he has a brilliant 100% in one area, then maybe he have 73% in the other 3. Or maybe a spread of 100, 80, 80, 60. In a general team of 10 scientists, the common skill in any subject would come very close to 800%, if you didn't get really unlucky in the picking. If you build a specialized team you should have 900% or more. Which means faster research for anyone that care to check the stats before he hires.
If you hire lots of scientists, and always want more than supplied, this might become a problem. But you can still make the best of what you have.
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Just look at your current science recruits and choose the ones that makes your path the fastest. Choose the guys with high ratings in "personal equipment (weapons and armor)" and skip the biologists.
Sorry to disagree once more, but i dont think we are playing the same game. I normally play on normal/hard and on that level you need every scientists you are able to get. To SKIP even one would be simply stupid.
But I think you know by now that i disagree and dont like the idea. AFAIK no further discussion needed...
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Since we are choosing from the best of the best, spread could be from maybe 60 to 100%, with the level of todays scientists at 80%. And the average for one scientist is at that 80% with all skills counted. If he has a brilliant 100% in one area, then maybe he have 73% in the other 3. Or maybe a spread of 100, 80, 80, 60. In a general team of 10 scientists, the common skill in any subject would come very close to 800%, if you didn't get really unlucky in the picking. If you build a specialized team you should have 900% or more. Which means faster research for anyone that care to check the stats before he hires.
If you hire lots of scientists, and always want more than supplied, this might become a problem. But you can still make the best of what you have.
I, for one, very much like the idea. It could be even simplier - just let each scinetist have an area of specialization (biology, equipment and intelligence for example). In an area of his expertise he would research at 100%, otherwise at 70% (or any other number). It won`t overload the player with numbers but will introduce a factor too think about.
And lastly - the limited amount of soldiers and specialist available for employent is quite silly - after all PHALNX is THE organization, which fights for humanity survival, it shouldn`t suffer from any manpower shortages.
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I've been toying with a similar idea, but one that takes skills even further ;D Just have one "class" of employee (Agents) and have skills for Science, Medicine, Piloting, etc... "Dammit, all my soldiers just bought it. Dare I press my researchers into a Terror response unit and risk them getting killed?"
My suggestion is just blue-sky thinking Thanks for listening! :D
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This blue sky is so nice! :)
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The idea of having a skill stat for scientists is good. If you are lucky, you get best scientists, like for soldiers.
The one of having different classes of researchers... well, it's a bit weird :) consider that I'm a biotechnologist.. it would be very funny for me having someone rating my skills in physics and astronomy and biology and put me in a different laboratory for this...
I think it would be best to keep things like they are now, it is not realistic, because 'generic' scientists don't exist, but you can't really improve that.
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Thinking about it, in real life having different people from different backgrounds on a project has the potential to increase, instead, the research speed. With different backgrounds, they can look at a problem from many different vantage points and catch things the others wouldn't have thought of.
For example: the current description of plasma rifles. Sure, it seems like its all high-energy physics and magnetic fields and thermodynamic plasma fields and stuff. However, it'd likely be someone like a biotechnologist who discovers one of the key parts of the rifle: the spinners that make the plastic shells.
That's an argument against separate skills, but I do like the idea of separate scientist skills. I get the impression that the range would only be, say, 80% to 120% of average - so if you don't pay attention you won't notice a difference, but if you manage things right you'd get small bonuses to research production. In fact, if you only research one item at a time with all your scientists, there'd be essentially no difference at all. The only way to get this bonus would be to split projects up into teams.
Example:
Suppose there are two projects that need 800 research points to complete, but one is a biology project, the other is physics. You have four scientists: Two with 60bio/40phys, and two with 40bio/60phys.
In a four-man team, the scientists have a total of 200bio and 200physics, so researching each project would take 4 days. Researching both projects would take 8 days. This is the exact same situtation that we have now (each scientist gives an equal value).
In a two-man team the bioscientists would have a total of 120 bio points, and research the bio project in 6.7 days.
The same thing happens to your physicists: They can research 120 points together, and finish the physics project in 6.7 days.
In this case, the two teams will finish at the same time.
If the physics project was a vital armour that you need to get on your troops ASAP, you'd stick all four labcoats on it, so you can finish it in 4 days. However, the next project done will take another 4 days to complete.
If your goal is to research the entire tech tree as quickly as possible, then it's best to split your projects into smaller teams (even if you only have 4 guys available). You'd have to wait an extra couple days for your first tech to come out, but the second tech will be done a day ahead of of if you just tasked all your guys on them both.
This way, players are rewarded for thinking ahead and micromanaging, without forcing them to or penalizing them if they don't. In fact, it's a trade-off between getting a project done now, or getting more projects done sooner later on.