UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Mapping => Topic started by: Wanderer on April 12, 2007, 09:53:58 pm
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Is there a help file or something similar to help me learn to use the tool at all on a Windows box? The help file that installed with the Map tool doesn't function (go me!), and the wiki tutorials assume you already know how to drop a building onto the grid (and then reselect it).
Basically I'm looking for the idiot proof "Okay, here's how to build a building with a door, a window, a stairway, and a second floor."
Heck, I only found out by accident how to use the arrows to use that 'view point' icon on the map at first. I kept trying to figure out how to change its brush so it wouldn't make a diamond shaped building. :)
Thanks in advance.
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there are some german video tutorials at http://mattn.ninex.info/videos/
and a few mapping tutorials in the wiki at http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping
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and a few mapping tutorials in the wiki at http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping
I found these, at least the keypressed helped. Unfortunately I don't understand German so the tutorials at best help to see what might be done, but not so much how to do it.
I'm kinda learning by inference. A slow process for some of these pieces.
I guess I'll have to stumble my way through it and hopefully post/make one if I can get far enough to make something remotely usable.
Thank you for the links, though.
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feel free to ask any question you have - or join the irc channel to discuss problems you have
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Okay, bumbling along in the map editor. Starting to understand it's... quirks.
Intuitive it's not. However, it seems powerful.
Now, a couple of things. All my textures come up as a series of alternative blue and black checkerboards, even when I CTRL-A to 'show all textures'. For example, I'm loading the map farm08d.
Second, I appear to be running into different people's file pathing when trying to examine their maps. IE: C:\programme/map/base... I don't even know where that's supposed to go (I can assume, but the split between / and \ royally tosses me for a loop). Is there a way to redirect a map's md2 storage location?
Third, I know you guys are creating a library of lovely toys. GK only appears to have 'prefab imports'... and none of these objects are prefabs.
Fourth, and I know this is gonna sound dumb but it's very frustrating... how do you scroll the top-down X view? I can get the viewpoint to wander around, and center, but I can't fine control the top down's viewable region.
Thanks!
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Now, a couple of things. All my textures come up as a series of alternative blue and black checkerboards, even when I CTRL-A to 'show all textures'. For example, I'm loading the map farm08d.
that happens if you set a wrong base path - which version are you using? (game version) where did you install it and what is the project path (see radiant options->paths)
Second, I appear to be running into different people's file pathing when trying to examine their maps. IE: C:\programme/map/base... I don't even know where that's supposed to go (I can assume, but the split between / and \ royally tosses me for a loop). Is there a way to redirect a map's md2 storage location?
radiant can handle this - i suppose it's the wrong projectpath, too - if you see textures in the texture browser (hit t) - you have set the right path and you should also see the models.
Third, I know you guys are creating a library of lovely toys. GK only appears to have 'prefab imports'... and none of these objects are prefabs.
Yes, i always open a second instance, select the stuff i want to copy and then do normal copy & paste
Fourth, and I know this is gonna sound dumb but it's very frustrating... how do you scroll the top-down X view? I can get the viewpoint to wander around, and center, but I can't fine control the top down's viewable region.
hold the right mousebutton in the x view window and move your mouse (if i get you right)
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reminds, me: there is a problem with our current mapcompiler - it can't handle compressed archives yet - you have to extract colormap.pcx from the base/0pics.pk3 and copy it to base/pics folder (create it if it's not there)
the pk3-files are normal zip files
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All my textures come up as a series of alternative blue and black checkerboards.
that happens if you set a wrong base path - which version are you using?
(game version) where did you install it and what is the project path (see radiant options->paths)
Game Version: 2.1.
Install Path: "C:\Program Files\UFOAI21\tools\" (for the q3radiant.exe)
base path: Erm... Radiant options... you mean Edit-> Preferences?
I've got a couple here. Game path thinks it's looking for quake2...
Prefab path is C:\Program Files\UFOAI21\base\
User INI is blank. I had use PAK/PK3 checked which I cleared because I've unpacked everything.
I appear to be running into different people's file pathing when trying to examine their maps. ... Is there a way to redirect a map's md2 storage location?
radiant can handle this - i suppose it's the wrong projectpath, too - if you see textures in the texture browser (hit t) - you have set the right path and you should also see the models.
Well, I see the list of textures, but they're black and blue checkerboards. I assume that is not what you meant?
I know this is gonna sound dumb but it's very frustrating... how do you scroll the top-down X view? I can get the viewpoint to wander around, and center, but I can't fine control the top down's viewable region.
hold the right mousebutton in the x view window and move your mouse (if i get you right)
You did, thank you.
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wait - you are using the q3radiant version? i'm sorry, but i can't really help you here - i've never used it myself. i always used the gtkradiant ( http://mattn.ninex.info )
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Alrighty, switched over to gtk. I was just using whatever installed itself with the game, silly me.
And, woot! We have a working manual... thank goodness. Time for a good read.
Textures are visible here, although farm crashed me to a data dump on closing, no idea why.
So, Matt, thank you for the assistance, and I'm sure I'll be here to pick your brain once I get done with the instruction book and try some stuff out.
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Matt, in the regular view, any idea where the 'z' stripe window went that's over on the side? Little mug's on vacation and dunno where he got off to.
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this was removed (don't ask me why) from the 1.5 version by spog (afaik)
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NARF! Well, this is amusing.
The instruction manual at least got me through some basics, however, I found I'm having a few more lovely issues, so, if I could ask for your assistance again Matt...
First: My map is a simple, x960 x y1028 x z64 slab of concrete. It's visible to all levels of cutaway. On top of this I've dropped 8 info_alien_start, 8 info_human_start, and 8 info_civilian_start objects.
When I try to load the map in UFO:AI after doing a final build that gives no error, I end up with an error stating 'z levels between 7 :255.', (16 of them, specifically) then it loads a nice big black screen.
Remove the info_ items (and rebuild the bsp), and I don't get the error, and I still get the big black screen.
Second question: I can find in the plugins menu a way to set the worldspawn ambient to day/night, but I can't figure out how to adjust the settings once the worldspawn's in place. [EDIT: I set the worldspawn, I believe, through the plugin menu] [EDIT 2: Answered my own question... partially] Following the advice in http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Tutorials/Setting_worldspawn_flags, I found what appears to be a blank entity? (Yes, I looked before I posted the first time... I must have blanked at 11 PM last night.)
I see the following in the second window of the worldspawn entity:
"light" intensity of the sun light
"_color" color of the sun light (normalized) RGB
"angles" direction of the sun light [pitch yaw roll] - pitch (up/down), yaw (left/right) and roll (fall over)
"ambient" ambient light (NOT normalized)
"maxlevel" highest selectable level
"maxteams" max multiplayer teams (default is 2)
"fog" activate fog
"fogcolor" fogcolor (rgb)
In the third window all i see is
classname worldspawn
When I look through the entities in the first window, I don't see any values such as 'fogcolor' to be able to modify. Do I modify these values in this second window? Seems more like a description.
Thanks in advance. At this point I'm just trying to make sure I can get a basic format to work before continuing.
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First: My map is a simple, x960 x y1028 x z64 slab of concrete. It's visible to all levels of cutaway. On top of this I've dropped 8 info_alien_start, 8 info_human_start, and 8 info_civilian_start objects.
When I try to load the map in UFO:AI after doing a final build that gives no error, I end up with an error stating 'z levels between 7 :255.', (16 of them, specifically) then it loads a nice big black screen.
Remove the info_ items (and rebuild the bsp), and I don't get the error, and I still get the big black screen.
are you sure, that you start in the zero origin of the map? did you ever load one of the other maps to get a feeling for the dimensions? don't use a z-level lower then 0 - don't - that's really important!!
Second question: I can find in the plugins menu a way to set the worldspawn ambient to day/night, but I can't figure out how to adjust the settings once the worldspawn's in place. [EDIT: I set the worldspawn, I believe, through the plugin menu] [EDIT 2: Answered my own question... partially] Following the advice in http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Tutorials/Setting_worldspawn_flags, I found what appears to be a blank entity? (Yes, I looked before I posted the first time... I must have blanked at 11 PM last night.)
I see the following in the second window of the worldspawn entity:
"light" intensity of the sun light
"_color" color of the sun light (normalized) RGB
"angles" direction of the sun light [pitch yaw roll] - pitch (up/down), yaw (left/right) and roll (fall over)
"ambient" ambient light (NOT normalized)
"maxlevel" highest selectable level
"maxteams" max multiplayer teams (default is 2)
"fog" activate fog
"fogcolor" fogcolor (rgb)
In the third window all i see is
classname worldspawn
When I look through the entities in the first window, I don't see any values such as 'fogcolor' to be able to modify. Do I modify these values in this second window? Seems more like a description.
if you open up the entity inspector, there is a key and a value field - just type the key and the value and hit enter. that's all - no magic ;-)
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First: My map is a simple, x960 x y1028 x z64 slab of concrete. It's visible to all levels of cutaway. On top of this I've dropped 8 info_alien_start, 8 info_human_start, and 8 info_civilian_start objects.
When I try to load the map in UFO:AI after doing a final build that gives no error, I end up with an error stating 'z levels between 7 :255.', (16 of them, specifically) then it loads a nice big black screen.
Remove the info_ items (and rebuild the bsp), and I don't get the error, and I still get the big black screen.
are you sure, that you start in the zero origin of the map? did you ever load one of the other maps to get a feeling for the dimensions? don't use a z-level lower then 0 - don't - that's really important!!
Error: Grid-Height: Warning: z level is bigger than 7: 255
Africa04d map, Z goes below the 0 line (the well). However, my map does not. Most of the other maps surround the x0 y0 point, I just went to the Northeast.
The oddest part of this is in either case my map doesn't want to behave, but I only get the errors after right-click, info, info_alien_start (info_human_start too).
Can a map be loaded and visible in UFO:AI without any info_start points so that I can try to determine one problem at a time? (Seeing as how it's black no matter what I do I'm trying to remove variables.)
I ... attempted to rip them out of one of the prebuilt maps to rename and test loadability but once all those maps are assembled selecting anything out of the mob becomes interesting, at best.
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you just went to the upper right corner - the end of the mapeditor grid? did i get you right?
if yes - hit i (select all - or better invert selection) and move your map to the x=0 and y=0 position
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Well, not all the way to the end, just a ways... I guess a picture's worth a thousand words:
XY View
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/GUDare/xyview-mytest.jpg)
XZ View
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/GUDare/xzview-mytest.jpg)
So, I guess I want to understand if you mean to center the map on the 0,0, or leave the corner where it is?
[Edit: Centering the map (give or take) on the 0,0 on the xy did not change the results]
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make sure, that you align the starting positions - they should exactly fit one square if you set the gridsize to 32 (shortcut 6)
dimensions and alignment is very important in ufo:ai - due to the pathfinding
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make sure, that you align the starting positions - they should exactly fit one square if you set the gridsize to 32 (shortcut 6)
dimensions and alignment is very important in ufo:ai - due to the pathfinding
I was unaware of this previously, so this is good information...
... however, still getting the error.
I tried adjusting the 1st block to only 4 grids high instead of 64 and relocated all the start points to match the new start height, still no luck there.
Added in some light sources (as I saw some maps, like africa, didn't use worldspawn settings and instead had multiple light sources all over the place). Still dark.
If I didn't want to try to help with maps as badly as I do for the game (and that it looks like some fun once I learn), I'd be about ready to toss this thing into the hamper. Be damned if I can figure out what I'm doing wrong. It looks like it 'should' be simple.
[EDIT]: Appears I'm not the only one hitting this error:
http://ufoai.ninex.info/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5481&sid=1658e262e61f885c47b335b7b9415108
[/EDIT]
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maybe you should try to open one map - e.g. test testwaypoints.map - and just start to replace the existing brushes with your brushes. and then compile the map
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maybe you should try to open one map - e.g. test testwaypoints.map - and just start to replace the existing brushes with your brushes. and then compile the map
Tried a version of this, then realized that even the base version of the tutorial .map's that are shipped won't work when compiled, either.
Matt, I'm working on getting a copy of the map file to a location I can share it with you so maybe you can look at it. I'm sure I'm just missing one simple, but important thing, so I'll let this lie until I can get it online somewhere.
[EDIT]: Find map here: http://www.filefactory.com/file/69f579/
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you need at least 3 brushes in your maps - please add some more brushes and try again please
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you need at least 3 brushes in your maps - please add some more brushes and try again please
D'oh!!! Oversimplified the test case!
That worked like a charm! Thank ye kindly, Matt. Now, to play with it some and figure out what the heck I'm doing now that I can get it to work.
(I'm gonna at least have to write something up for the wiki with all the 'easy' stuff you're helping me with for the next poor soul)
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that would be very cool ;-)
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In prefab_dropship, the Dropship landing model's already built. Always nice, however, there's a few objects here I'm unsure of.
The actorclip flags I understand, keeps things from wandering into places you don't want them. It looks like they can also be used as 'invisible floors'. Is this correct?
The brushes on this map I don't understand are the yellow colored 'nodraw' brushes. What are the point to these, and am I missing an attribute?
When I select them and review the entity, I merely get the worldspawn attributes, and nothing stands out in the surface inspector.
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the nodraw brushes are throughing shadows - currently misc_models don't produce shadows by itself. this is something we have to improve in future development - but for now we need the nodraw brushes.
it's a little convention to make clipping brushes orange, nodraw brushes yellow and stepon brushes blue
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the nodraw brushes are throughing shadows - currently misc_models don't produce shadows by itself. this is something we have to improve in future development - but for now we need the nodraw brushes.
it's a little convention to make clipping brushes orange, nodraw brushes yellow and stepon brushes blue
Ah hah! So, if I drop a giant, no draw object on the map, I can look like there's something overhead... like a landing airplane's shadow? Do I need to adjust any other settings besides blocking out the brush and then choosing 'nodraw' to cause the shadow?
Also with an actorclip flag, can they walk on it? Reason I'm asking is let's say I have a floor at z4, and a river at z1. In theory they could step down to it, however, if I trace an 'actorclip' brush over the top (who's highest point is at level z4), would this become 'walkable' terrain?
The reason for any of this confusion is the actorclip brush that's across the 'floor' of the inside of the dropship. I want to make sure that I don't run into a similar problem... or is this because an actor can walk *through* a model, and therefore you had to create the false floor?
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nothing more is needed as the nodraw flag
the actorclip: yes, actor can walk on such brushes - the reason why this is in the dropship is, that the soldiers feets doesn't melt with the dropship bottom
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Thanks for the assistance on the nodraws and clipping... now, for something different...
Random Map assemblies! Woot
http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping:Random_map_assembly
After about, oh, 7 reads I finally understand MOST of this file. However, one thing still gets me that I think just needs confirmation. We'll speak in context of the 'tile types' of a/b/c.
Is this a mapped entry that could relate to anything, or is there something in the .map/bsp file that makes it a/b/c? For example, lets say I wanted to include 'road ends here' as an option.
Is (a) always overridden to mean any tile, or must it be another tile with (+a) mapped in that location, so the single tile curve pieces, mapped as (+bc), could *never* exist there? Or would you need to make it (abc) to TRULY include 'any' tile in this position (similar to the coutryd.ump file)?
Does b in any tiling map always mean b in any other other tiling map? So I'd have to simply 'know' in the script file (by means of comments or whatever) that (b) means 'horizontal road'?
Are the characters case sensitive? Is a-z the only characters available (not that I could see needing more, but hey...)?
Is the wiki needed map list up to date, especially on random maps? A large portion of these seem close to ready, if not completely.
[Edit] Whoops, forgot a piece. In the readying of a .ump, must you have single tile maps available to the builder, or can it use tiles from portions of maps, and just not include the overhang?
What I mean in a different way: You scale a map to be 5x5 in the builder, and you've only built 2x2 tile maps to be included. Can it use say, the bottom two tiles from a map and attach them for the final build?
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After about, oh, 7 reads I finally understand MOST of this file.
:-D So thats why I didn't understand it really - read it only ~3 times! *g
When you get the plan of it, could you do a 'for dummies' version of this as well?
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Is this a mapped entry that could relate to anything, or is there something in the .map/bsp file that makes it a/b/c? For example, lets say I wanted to include 'road ends here' as an option.
It can be everything you like - the a/b/c just make sure, that you can pack suitable tiles together - a tile with an "a" and other tile with an "a" - but they can both be very different as a map
Is (a) always overridden to mean any tile, or must it be another tile with (+a) mapped in that location, so the single tile curve pieces, mapped as (+bc), could *never* exist there? Or would you need to make it (abc) to TRULY include 'any' tile in this position (similar to the coutryd.ump file)?
sorry - i don't understand your question here.
Does b in any tiling map always mean b in any other other tiling map? So I'd have to simply 'know' in the script file (by means of comments or whatever) that (b) means 'horizontal road'?
as i said in the first part already - it's up to you which letter you will use for similiar tiles like roads - you can use a, b, c, g, whatever you like
Are the characters case sensitive? Is a-z the only characters available (not that I could see needing more, but hey...)?
Not sure atm - i would have to look at the code, too
Is the wiki needed map list up to date, especially on random maps? A large portion of these seem close to ready, if not completely.
every random theme could need new nice tiles - some can be used in their current form, but others (ice[dn]) are not useable at the moment
[Edit] Whoops, forgot a piece. In the readying of a .ump, must you have single tile maps available to the builder, or can it use tiles from portions of maps, and just not include the overhang?
If you want to use portions of other maps, you have to extract them and create a new tile
What I mean in a different way: You scale a map to be 5x5 in the builder, and you've only built 2x2 tile maps to be included. Can it use say, the bottom two tiles from a map and attach them for the final build?
no (see above)
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The answers to some questions are intuitively answered by others, so I'm not surprised some of the questions didn't make sense to you. :D
Is (a) always overridden to mean any tile, or must it be another tile with (+a) mapped in that location, so the single tile curve pieces, mapped as (+bc), could *never* exist there? Or would you need to make it (abc) to TRULY include 'any' tile in this position (similar to the coutryd.ump file)?
sorry - i don't understand your question here.
You answered it above. (a) is not a generic 'anything', it's a specific tile type, same as (b) and (c). It just happens to be the most common.
Are the characters case sensitive? Is a-z the only characters available (not that I could see needing more, but hey...)?
Not sure atm - i would have to look at the code, too
You might want to put this higher on your 'todo' list then, you're almost out of room in the country.ump.
Every random theme could need new nice tiles - some can be used in their current form, but others (ice[dn]) are not useable at the moment.
I'd prefer to be able to find the worst offenders/most wanted list for this, especially if there's known maps that are desired from your overall lead perspective that are needed to get random maps online, and the rest are 'nice to have's.
The fact that the list is stored in wiki at all, and you can't really tell how up to date it is, makes it suspect. Just more want to confirm if there *is* a master list of 'Needed maps', and who's got the [WIP] on them, and if the page on the wiki is that actual list, and that the list is here: http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Suggestions
In case you can't tell I want to do everything I can to help get crashed ufo's into the game. :)
As always Mattn, thanks for the help!
After about, oh, 7 reads I finally understand MOST of this file.
:-D So thats why I didn't understand it really - read it only ~3 times! *g
When you get the plan of it, could you do a 'for dummies' version of this as well?
Sure. Figured that'd be around lesson 4, but I could skeleton one out in the meanwhile, or try to help clean up the explaination in the existing tutorial... hm. Lemme think on which would be best, I dislike huge edit's on someone else's author pages. I also don't want to end up building a skeleton even MORE confusing then the original tutorial. :D