UFO:Alien Invasion
Technical support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: slothlord on June 16, 2009, 08:10:13 pm
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Since the 25mm plasma grenade is researchable, why not a 25mm gas grenade for the grenade launcher? It's a logical progression from the gas grenade and makes the grenade launcher more useful.
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I had the same thought and asked for this, however BTAxis said they're not gonna implement it because it's not something they'd want in the game. The game being about killing aliens, not stunning them, and so on :D
We should mod this ;) I'm handy enough to change the launcher plasma grenade into a gas grenade, but I have no clue at all how to implement a completely new researchable item and a completely new piece of equipment in the game. But that doesn't mean I can't learn how to do it...
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Yeah, I dunno, it just doesn't seem right to me to make stunning too easy.
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If stun slowly fades away so eventually an alien may wake up (like on X-COM), even with powerfull ranged stunning weapons it will get quite hard on large maps.
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25MM round is too small to carry the delivery system and sufficient gas payload to be practical.
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Hmm, I see the point about the game being about killing aliens, but it's not as if everyones gonna equip every single trooper with grenade launchers and 25mm gas grenades. Even so, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to lower the AoE and stun damage of the 25mm gas grenade compared to the regular thrown gas grenade or the 25mm plasma grenade.
Oh well, I guess I was thinking about it from the soldiers' point of view:
"Okay, soldier we need prisoners. Take a stun rod from the armory before you deploy."
"Uh, you want me to walk up to heavily armed aliens and hope they don't blast me to bits before I poke them with a shock stick? Sir?"
"That's right soldier. But if that's the way you feel, feel free to take a few of those new gas grenades with you."
"Sir, I believe the research team managed to develop a 25mm version of the plasma grenades. Couldn't they do the same thing with the gas grenades?"
"That's an interesting suggestion soldier, but that would make things too easy. Take all the fun out of bagging those green-skins, eh? Now get a shocker and get me an alien, is that clear?!"
"Sir, yes, sir!"
Actually, it's not terribly hard to stun an alien. Shoot it a few times with a low powered weapon (any pistol) then throw 1 or 2 gas grenades. All my troops carry 2-3 grenades, so really don't see how making non-lethal ammo for the grenade launcher would make it "too easy".
I'm not really bothered about it, i just thought it would the grenade launcher a bit more multi-purpose.
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I love your exchange between soldier and commander that is priceless... and really Axis.. too easy? what are you on about..
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It's about supplanting the lethal weapons by nonlethal ones. If you have a nonlethal weapon to fill every combat situation you would load out your entire squad with them since live aliens are more valuable than dead ones. That's my concern. Taking aliens alive should by no means be difficult, but it should, on the whole, at least be trickier than outright killing them.
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then lowering the stun damage and radius should fix that right? I don't want to offend, but I think you're overestimating the usefulness of non-lethal grenade launcher ammo. you can't give every trooper a grenade launcher, that's just silly. your troops would stun themselves in close quarters (small rooms, corridors, alien ships, etc.) not to mention reaction fire would be a mess. i have a hard enough time with the gas grenades as is (stunned two soldiers when the grenade bounced back) without having to worry about friendly fire.
since grenades no longer have to be primed (like in X-com), it takes about as much time to grab a grenade from inventory and throw than to shoot an alien. i don't even use the grenade launcher much since every trooper can carry 2-3 grenades. if i really want to capture aliens, i equip my guys with laser pistols and a gas grenade in hand with 4 more stashed on them.
would be really be so bad to just try it out? even X-com had stun launchers...
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even X-com had stun launchers...
And we have electrolaser....
-geever
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I don't know for certain I'm right, since we never tried it.
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huh? electro-laser? what does that have to do with the grenade launcher?
well, i guess it's up to you devs. i suppose it's more of a "would be nice to have" that can be worked on in future versions.
just had a thought, what about a tranquilizer gun? it would probably have low-range and piss-poor TU cost (due to careful aiming needed) but could be an alternative...should i put it in a new thread or is a tranq gun an auto-No?
hmm, i wonder what taser's would to an alien...
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huh? electro-laser? what does that have to do with the grenade launcher?
It's a ranged stun weapon as a 25mm gas grenade would be.
Why do you force grenade launcher so much? It's not me who decides what get into the game and what don't but I don't think one more is always better...
I would like to see more alien weapons instead..
-geever
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Yeah, I've always held that the human weapons are too numerous and the alien ones not enough so.
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I think there should be equal numbers of human weapons, alien weapons and late game hybrid weapons. about 1/3 of each.
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We dont necessarily have to outright stun the aliens. Tear gas is non lethal, but it doesnt cause unconsciousness. So make the grenade launcher something that will cause the aliens to...I dunno....not do anything for a turn or two, or one turn with greatly lowered accuraccy for a few turns following, as well as lower moral. Something that will tactically aid troops with stun rods, or even to kill the aliens.
I understand that this would also make things easier. But its not like the aliens dont know about things getting in their eyes, right? Undoubtedly they would have something along the lines of gas-masks, if not so bulky and detrimental. A combo of gas-mask a night-vision goggles, perhaps?
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Have you actually read the articles for the alien breathing device and stun grenade at all?
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Breathing: Not in a while. The gist of what I remember is that it contains chemicals that allows for better breathing in, to the aliens view, alien environments.
Gas: Never got that far in-game.
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grenade launcher can fire bursts of 3, so you could mix it up and the burst could contain not only plasma and gas, but also a flashbang to make sure nothing goes wrong.
and really, as gas is not lethal to civilians and all, you should develop a big gas bomb that covers the whole area and then send your team to pick up whatever there is to pick up, revive the civilians, and mission accomplished.
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and really, as gas is not lethal to civilians and all, you should develop a big gas bomb that covers the whole area and then send your team to pick up whatever there is to pick up, revive the civilians, and mission accomplished.
Logically, really good idea. Gameplay wise, very BAD idea. Why dont we just give you an Easy button thats better than the auto-mission?
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Plus you could argue that the gas IS lethal when the victim is exposed to it for too long, or that it could potentially be lethal to the elderly and the sickly. Not to mention that falling victim to the gas is extremely painful. Governments would never approve of such a method.
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Logically, really good idea. Gameplay wise, very BAD idea. Why dont we just give you an Easy button thats better than the auto-mission?
uhm, take it a step further. Gas an area that large and you run the risk of killing many civillians with asthma and COPD (another breathing disorder common among elderly.) Aliens killing humans is bad enough, but humans killing humans even if trying to kill aliens is really really bad.
the Russians actually tried this awhile back in a famous hostage stand-off in a school. Gassed the whole school and stormed it... it didn't turn out well, many fatalities and more then a few were directly related to the gas used. and the government took a huge beating in the court of public opinion because of it.
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Not that former Russian President Vladímir Vladímirovitch Putin really cared about it.
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We're going to assume the governments in UFO:AI do care about their citizens.
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Hmm, I see the point about the game being about killing aliens, but it's not as if everyones gonna equip every single trooper with grenade launchers and 25mm gas grenades. Even so, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to lower the AoE and stun damage of the 25mm gas grenade compared to the regular thrown gas grenade or the 25mm plasma grenade.
Oh well, I guess I was thinking about it from the soldiers' point of view:
"Okay, soldier we need prisoners. Take a stun rod from the armory before you deploy."
"Uh, you want me to walk up to heavily armed aliens and hope they don't blast me to bits before I poke them with a shock stick? Sir?"
"That's right soldier. But if that's the way you feel, feel free to take a few of those new gas grenades with you."
"Sir, I believe the research team managed to develop a 25mm version of the plasma grenades. Couldn't they do the same thing with the gas grenades?"
"That's an interesting suggestion soldier, but that would make things too easy. Take all the fun out of bagging those green-skins, eh? Now get a shocker and get me an alien, is that clear?!"
"Sir, yes, sir!"
Actually, it's not terribly hard to stun an alien. Shoot it a few times with a low powered weapon (any pistol) then throw 1 or 2 gas grenades. All my troops carry 2-3 grenades, so really don't see how making non-lethal ammo for the grenade launcher would make it "too easy".
I'm not really bothered about it, i just thought it would the grenade launcher a bit more multi-purpose.
Taht's very much what I thought about it, earlier on :) That's why I asked if we still need to stun as many aliens as in UFO.
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We're going to assume the governments in UFO:AI do care about their citizens.
LOL just in UFO AI? the fact is governments only care about what keeps them in power.. and aliens invading would definitely threaten that power structure... To hell with the citizens.
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GL launched gas grenades just make all kinds of sense. From a game play vantage, I really don't see it making taking aliens alive easier than outright killing them. The GL is a great weapon, but it's clearly far from omnipotent and ideal for every situation. Sometimes you need accuracy, range, linear trajectories and RF, and I sincerely doubt the electrolaser satisfies these criteria as well as lethal weaponry.
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I think there should be equal numbers of human weapons, alien weapons and late game hybrid weapons. about 1/3 of each.
well from a reality POV it makes sense, you have a highly advanced alien race and a low tech human race, so the aliens are likely to have a unified weapons program where each role has 1 weapon that fits the role.
the humans on the other hand are going to be madly rushing around trying to find a way to bypass the tech gap, pursuing every option that comes up.
like tanks in WW2, both sides started with each army having 1 or 2 standard designs each, but as the realities of war kick off both sides started throwing out new designs that counter the advantages of the other side. as all the advantage are with the aliens in the begining they wont he churning out designs to counter the superior human weapons, (ateast not until the sequel) so in reality there would be lots of human weapons and few aliens
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well from a reality POV it makes sense, you have a highly advanced alien race and a low tech human race, so the aliens are likely to have a unified weapons program where each role has 1 weapon that fits the role.
the humans on the other hand are going to be madly rushing around trying to find a way to bypass the tech gap, pursuing every option that comes up.
like tanks in WW2, both sides started with each army having 1 or 2 standard designs each, but as the realities of war kick off both sides started throwing out new designs that counter the advantages of the other side. as all the advantage are with the aliens in the begining they wont he churning out designs to counter the superior human weapons, (ateast not until the sequel) so in reality there would be lots of human weapons and few aliens
Well, for gameplay's sake, thats probably not going to happen.
Besides, if this really happen, humans really will die ALOT faster, and for gameplay's sake again, u probably wont last > 3 missions before u r totally wiped out. Lol.
So ya, no. :P
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the Russians actually tried this awhile back in a famous hostage stand-off in a school. Gassed the whole school and stormed it... it didn't turn out well, many fatalities and more then a few were directly related to the gas used. and the government took a huge beating in the court of public opinion because of it.
Not sure how this compares to aliens, but anyway - the gas used definitely did not differ between terrorist and hostage.... I also believe they were in FULL knowledge of the effects of the gas, and *still* decided to apply it.
Says a lot about the russian government eh ....
Anyway, I think stunning should actually be more difficult than shooting and killing. A stun rod would be cool cuz you would need to be quite close (or being a harpoon), however I believe
if the aliens have no superpowers then a simple net-weapon could at least immobilize the alien. Something like a glue.
I think those non-direct ways to fight aliens should be expanded... like gas grenades being more effective
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[...]a simple net-weapon could at least immobilize the alien. Something like a glue.[...]
lol, same thoughts here after researching plasma blade : )
just get some reactive foam that hardens quickly, spit it at the alien in large quantities, and cut the alien out of it later.
like casting it in concrete up to the neck, no stun rod research necessary.
but, depending on how the story about alien intellect is interpreted, the last aliens in a mission should have reduced intelligence.
in this case, the last aliens should always be easy to capture alive in each mission, even without special stun weapons.
even if the story about alien intelligence is interpreted so that the virus persists for some time even when the host is dead, well, just destroy the alien corpses and the remaining few aliens will become imbeciles.
i guess the 25mm plasma grenades would be a way to make the grenade launcher less lethal to civilians.