UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: EchizenR on July 07, 2008, 08:30:28 am
-
I just came across this article which described the latest in so-called EM weapons. Perhaps the designers could get some new ideas from this.
"Invisible Wars" of the Future: E-Bombs, Laser Guns and Acoustic Weapons
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9522
-
EMPs and such may not be feasible against alien technology, possibly due to their material and existing defenses. Don't get me wrong, I love EMP weapons when they appear and behave properly, but I don't think this is the right setting, with small-scale infantry-based skirmishes.
Acoustic weapons, though a nifty hats-off to Terror from the Deep, may be too nonlethal. Alien armor might be inherently resistant, or whatever life-support systems they use may nullify weaker pressure variations. Perhaps the updated Flashbangs incorporate the products of any acoustic breakthroughs. There was a time when we thought lasers could be used to wipe out entire armies.
Lasers are already implemented in their feasible anti-personnel role.
A better example of EM-based weaponry would be the in-game Bolter, or the modern-day inspiration, the Railgun. I think there may be more EM acceleration weaponry planned, when they have the resources.
-
I read it and i wonder, what a fascist one must be, to design an ozone layer destructing weapon...
-
nevasith the same kind of fascists that designed the orgasm gun.... and no folks im not joking... it emitted a phere's and acoustics...
needless to say... it was an utter failure.. these new acoustic weapons they are coming out with.. less than lethal my ass...
the long term side affects are devestating.. The nazis and japanese tested them in WW2 but the tech and energy sources werent there to make it feasable... now they are...
-
Haha, has anyone heard of DARPA's gay bomb? (a bomb that makes soldiers go gay over each other)
-
I heard that the gay bomb project was abandoned on... nyeeeh ...grounds. That said, I'm sure you could raise some eyebrows with hot Shevaar-on-Shevaar action...
"Long term side effects" do not a good weapon make, at least not in this setting. *VOOON* "Ha-ha! Now you die in six to ten days!" *FRAPP* "Oh dear, I am dead!"
-
Meh, metalstorm I say... now there's an interesting system. From super-fast machineguns and grenade launchers(emplacements in both cases), to machinepistols that get several shots out of the barrel before the recoil gets a chance to kick in, to multi-shot underslung grenade launchers and shotguns.
-
Meh, metalstorm I say... now there's an interesting system. From super-fast machineguns and grenade launchers(emplacements in both cases), to machinepistols that get several shots out of the barrel before the recoil gets a chance to kick in, to multi-shot underslung grenade launchers and shotguns.
You don't need Metalstorm to get several shots out of the barrel before recoil, the HK G11 did it in the bloody 1980s. In fact, while Metalstorm is indeed pretty cool, its military applications are actually very limited because it runs through its ammo too quickly, the ammo is too bulky (i.e. having to cart around lots of pre-loaded barrels), and it takes too much time to switch out barrels to reload.
The MS underslung launchers seem like a good idea but even they get a lot of flak from soldiers, for example the aussies equipped with the new AuSteyr, because they can't actually be reloaded in the field. If that is eventually resolved I can see it gaining some popularity, though the ammo for it would still be a pain to carry around.
Regards,
Winter
P.S. We do use Metalstorm techniques where appropriate, such as in the Bolter.
-
Winter,
G11 never saw mass production though, did it? Shame, that. The Russians now have the Abakan rifle - similar ergonomics to AK-74 with the main difference being that the second round is fired before ANY recoil is felt. Resulting in two bullets in one hole at 100m (with a competent shooter, of course). After two shots, though, it becomes a regular assault rifle. I tried to ask around and what I heard is: yes, the two-punch has greater lithality, but the system is much more complicated than the famous AK series. As a result, field-servicing Abakan is tricky, making it a weapon for a professional in a police environment, i.e. with frequent quality servicing, rather than a grunt's weapon.
-
Winter,
G11 never saw mass production though, did it? Shame, that. The Russians now have the Abakan rifle - similar ergonomics to AK-74 with the main difference being that the second round is fired before ANY recoil is felt. Resulting in two bullets in one hole at 100m (with a competent shooter, of course). After two shots, though, it becomes a regular assault rifle. I tried to ask around and what I heard is: yes, the two-punch has greater lithality, but the system is much more complicated than the famous AK series. As a result, field-servicing Abakan is tricky, making it a weapon for a professional in a police environment, i.e. with frequent quality servicing, rather than a grunt's weapon.
No, the G11 got scuppered by the reunification of Germany, although it was apparently quite reliable to fire despite its complexity.
As far as complexity goes, though, you're always going to have these problems when trying to update your infantry weapons, which is why rifle technology hasn't advanced very far in twenty years. Any new mechanism you add is going to make the weapon more difficult to service and more prone to breakage. It's the old wisdom of more moving parts. Also, any next-generation weapon needs to be significantly better than past ones in order to justify the expense of adopting it, and incurring extra costs such as adding fiddly bits and changing calibres away from the NATO standards is a no-no for most militarised nations (which are your only real market as a rifle manufacturer).
You simply cannot modernise a weapon like the AK because when you add anything you automatically make it more vulnerable to the harsh climes where it's likely to be used. That's the sort of design theory we've used for the game. Weaponry follows life, and things like ease of service and reliability weigh just as much as (if not more than) firepower and penetration.
Regards,
Winter
-
No, the G11 got scuppered by the reunification of Germany, although it was apparently quite reliable to fire despite its complexity.
There was also an issue with the buildup of residue from the propellants. In a conventional rifle the propellant residue is captured inside the brass, but the G11's caseless design meant that the residue built up inside the receiver and could lead to fouling.
Not a problem, of course, for the Bolter. Mind you, if the Bolter's "cannonade" is meant to represent a 3-round "pre-recoil" burst similar to that from a G11, I would suggest that its spread be reduced.
-
There was also an issue with the buildup of residue from the propellants. In a conventional rifle the propellant residue is captured inside the brass, but the G11's caseless design meant that the residue built up inside the receiver and could lead to fouling.
That only happened in the early prototypes, though, they fixed the fouling problem in later versions.
Not a problem, of course, for the Bolter. Mind you, if the Bolter's "cannonade" is meant to represent a 3-round "pre-recoil" burst similar to that from a G11, I would suggest that its spread be reduced.
That's an idea, but we'd rather not rewrite articles unless absolutely necessary.
Regards,
Winter
-
Bunch of weapons engineers here. Sheesh.
Gay-bomb lawlawlawl
-
The G11 is quite the assault rifle... and you never had to switch out the barrel... the ammunition was 5.7 caseless or 4.9 caseless .... it was a top mount clip much like the P90....
Great gun.. too bad the US is deciding to stick with the m16
-
The G11 is quite the assault rifle... and you never had to switch out the barrel... the ammunition was 5.7 caseless or 4.9 caseless .... it was a top mount clip much like the P90....
Great gun.. too bad the US is deciding to stick with the m16
The problem with modern firearms is that we've hit sort of a development roadblock. There's not a hell of a lot you can do with guns that hasn't already been done without making them LOTS more complicated to service and repair. The P90 is powerful, yes, but a bit of a darling. The G11 is also not exactly a prime candidate for easy field-stripping. The AK-47 is still king of the assault rifles for a very good reason.
Regards,
Winter
-
The AK-47 is still king of the assault rifles for a very good reason.
Regards,
Winter
I here tales of the Chinese, Russians, and even some cases of Americans making the AK-47 and selling it to them. Who actually made it? I always thought it was Russia.
-
The original was designed by Anatoli(?) Kalashnikov for the soviet army. But like many succesful firearms, its production has been licenced to a large number of other countries.
-
The AK-47 is still king of the assault rifles for a very good reason.
Agree. I was very wondered why it is not in PHALANX' armory?
Well, 47 and its later (74 and so on) modifications aren't intended for long-range deatmatch-style shooting duels, but it is highly usable for short- and mid-range combats.
I could kill an armed deserter with butt-less version of AK-74 within distance of approx 50 meters or so, just after he launched "underbarrel" grenade to our jeep. There were very unpleasing feelings after the grenade explodes near me, killing our driver and guys at rear part of vehicle. I was the only survived.
The version mentioned is often used by paratroopers and local police forces ("militia" in Russian) because of its compact size.
-
these new acoustic weapons they are coming out with.. less than lethal my ass...
Not always need a weapon be deadly.
The marketing folks advertize weapons which cripple people as "non lethal weapons". Which is a
shame because there are people who have lost one eye due to a "soft" bullet.
The worst weapon ever designed as "non lethal" were taser weapons. They actually make
the guys who use them be less restrictive when they use them.
I think the term "non lethal" should be removed from taser weapons. They are only less likely
to cause death compared to an "old school" bullet to the head.
-
The problem with modern firearms is that we've hit sort of a development roadblock. There's not a hell of a lot you can do with guns that hasn't already been done without making them LOTS more complicated to service and repair. The P90 is powerful, yes, but a bit of a darling. The G11 is also not exactly a prime candidate for easy field-stripping. The AK-47 is still king of the assault rifles for a very good reason.
Regards,
Winter
I own one I know..... Its certainly still #1 in every professional soldier's book.. It is definitly #1 in mine... reliability in the field is everything.... this beautiful piece of wood and steel has performed time and time again.. flawlessly....
-
I own one I know..... Its certainly still #1 in every professional soldier's book.. It is definitly #1 in mine... reliability in the field is everything.... this beautiful piece of wood and steel has performed time and time again.. flawlessly....
Or any other AK derivative
But there IS a better rifle than the AK here, The Korobov TKB-517 which was externally similar but more accurate, reliable, easier to produce & maintain. Only got the knock becouse the Soviet forces were used to the Kalashnikov rifles. This is the one that should have been:
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/36/088054-5.html
A bullpup variant of it would be cool.
(http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000167/167040.jpg)
-
Of course, realistically speaking there is no "best" assault rifle.
Only "best for this circumstance".
The circumstance of equipping a massive army that's going to operate for extended time in the field with minimal logistical support? Probably the AK.
The circumstance of arming rag-tag geurilla armies who are going to have zero maintainance facilities? Probably the AK.
The circumstance of arming a small, ultra-elite team who will have excellent logistical support and regular access to high-tech facilities? You can probably do better.
The circumstance of wanting something that will function as an assault rifle but that can also be held under the arm to give a shorter profile better for use in confined spaces? Something with a bullbup configuration - not an AK.
The circumstance of wanting an assault rifle that can also be used for accurate long range sniping? Not an AK.
Now they've worked the bugs out of it, I have a passing fondness for the SA-80 for those situations. Wouldn't want it for large armies in the field, (thought the UK Armed forces have chosen it for that role) but Its bull-pup layout makes it equally handy for room-clearance and its one of the few assault rifles that comes, as standard, with an optical scope and is accurate enough to warrant it.
Not particularly familiar with the modern M-16s, though again I would assume that after so many years of use in the field they have gotten it working pretty well.
Steyr's AUG range always seemed attractive, and pleasingly "high tech", especially the modular design allowing the same components to be used for LMGs, ARs and SMG. Ought to be worth something in the field, that, though I have no direct experience of them. From the look of the graphics, that's what Phalanx's AR is based on.
-
I concur.
If the AK-47 were the best gun period then no other gun would have been made/upgraded. Why bother if they already had the "best"?
Now it is, as Mayhem stated, the best in certian situations/circumstances. But I want a magnum 44 as the handgun rather than the one we get in game :D
I know I might be going off topic a little here but I think using real guns as a basis for guns in the games future is definetlely an option that should be looked at.
A magnum .44? No. A magnum .44 that has a 12 round clip of slugs and a scope (IR Gogs cure this) for night time. Yes.
I doubt weapons would drastically change rather than just get modified. I would go so far as to propose they look at a Shadowrun book for weapons ideas. That game is supposed to take place not too far into the future as well and the weapons are rather realistic. As stated before they are just real weapons that are in use with modifications to them for the games setting.
-
The last poster raises an interesting quesstion, though I don't think he intended it.
Is it better to use specific weapons or to use weapon classes?
"AK-47" or just "Assault Rifle"?
While games like Fallout Tactics do have enough variation in weapons to justify the differences, this game is a bit less specialized (we don't need 5 types of shotgun).
Of course, if it weren't for the requirement to make these items in 3D (could we use generic 3D objects for all assault rifles and then easily made 2D objects for the interface?) it would be easy, if potentially confusing for the player, to add many.
-
The games generic weaponry is fine, IMO, since:
1) Its assumed that the experienced master-at-arms of PHALANX have already chosen the best weapon from those available for the missions they envision PHALANX engaging in.
2) It avoids any arguments from gun-nuts saying "why do Phalanx use the Steyr AUG? Everyone knows that the HK-G17 is a better rifle. Blah blah blah...
3) It avoids any question of a particular model of weapon/calibre of ammunition becoming obsolete within the games lifetime. Not very likely, admittedly, but if a new firearm innovation did sweep the market next year - one of those "god its obvious now somebody has thought of it" sweeping improvements that do, occasionally, happen in any field - UFO AI won't be left with tech that would clearly be obsolete in the year that the game is set in.
-
Trust me on this one as I say this as a dev for a game mod that uses multiple specific weapons. It's better to use generics. I was actually talking about models/science behind the weapons. It would add a unique feel to the game if they used their own modified real world weapons like the magnum with slugs as stated above. They could still call it a pistol/handgun but the model and science behind it would add a unique feel to the game. Rather then the Rainbow Six series that I only played like 2 games out of because I was bored of seeing the SAME weapons I saw in EVERY other game.
A beretta works fine but it really doesn't do anything for the game to use it as a model for the handgun. What would be cool though is to make their own variation of said model (or another) and call it a pistol and then possibly put some science behind it so it adds that unique feel. Science is not required or even history but just having a model that is unique would really do loads more for the game than using what every other game already uses. For instance that rocket launcher is so damn generic it makes me want to punch my monitor. Why not use a cooler type of launcher? The sci-fi dimensions of the game would allow you to get away with it.
Plus you would be able to call them your own. Not many games have a rifle that shoots a rocket but looks like a 1918 model right? ;)
But that leads me down another tangent. The one about being able to MAKE your own weapons. It would be awesome to see a game editor utility for the final release that would allow people to make their own maps, weapons, and other equipment easier than it is to do now. Think in terms of NWN. I would gladly pound out models for that if it ever happens.
Back on topic what I would really like to see is humans rather than scraping together alien weapons improve on their own. Like the development of the plasma grenades for the GL. More of that would be pretty cool beans. Like railgun ammo for the shotgun or even take the assault rifle and add that plasma blade on the end bayonet style. Thus giving you two options when up close. 8 shots or use the plasma blade.
-
I don't much care for the idea of jury-rigging alien weapons to existing ones, but I am a fan of opening up new ammunition types for existing weapons using alien weaponry. The Kerrblade tree could perhaps lead to a new set of monomolecular fragmentation grenades, then shotgun shells, and finally Monomolecular Sniper/COIL rounds.
From reading the plotline post(s), it seems that the aliens, while significantly advanced technologically than humans, seem not to have considerable experience with battlefield tactics against a capable opponent, and the imagination behind our more specialized, and brutal, weapons. Though PHALANX is starting well behind the curve, it seems that there is plenty of opportunity for them to redesign and overcome the shortcomings of the alien weaponry. Of course, I could see the aliens producing similarly versatile weapons in some cases after seeing what the humans have accomplished, or after capturing some from a botched mission, but this could lead to an interesting arms race and escalation of conflict in the mid- to late-game, an element past X-COM games have lacked to some extent (later in the game the aliens would pull out some nastier toys, but not obviously developed to compete/counter human weapons and tactics).
-
I concur.
If the AK-47 were the best gun period then no other gun would have been made/upgraded. Why bother if they already had the "best"?
Now it is, as Mayhem stated, the best in certian situations/circumstances. But I want a magnum 44 as the handgun rather than the one we get in game :D
I know I might be going off topic a little here but I think using real guns as a basis for guns in the games future is definetlely an option that should be looked at.
A magnum .44? No. A magnum .44 that has a 12 round clip of slugs and a scope (IR Gogs cure this) for night time. Yes.
Maybe a AK derivate weapon for the normal army soldiers? Sometimes it is good to have things there for flavor, even if there are no great differences in performance.
Hm...I envision a futuristic version of Automag V :o
-
From reading the plotline post(s), it seems that the aliens, while significantly advanced technologically than humans, seem not to have considerable experience with battlefield tactics against a capable opponent, and the imagination behind our more specialized, and brutal, weapons. Though PHALANX is starting well behind the curve, it seems that there is plenty of opportunity for them to redesign and overcome the shortcomings of the alien weaponry. Of course, I could see the aliens producing similarly versatile weapons in some cases after seeing what the humans have accomplished, or after capturing some from a botched mission, but this could lead to an interesting arms race and escalation of conflict in the mid- to late-game, an element past X-COM games have lacked to some extent (later in the game the aliens would pull out some nastier toys, but not obviously developed to compete/counter human weapons and tactics).
This is exactly the feel I'm going for. And you're right, the aliens will be displaying more battlefield creativity when we get some more textured weapon models in. I still need to do writeups for the needler and coilgun, I've just been swamped lately.
Aaaanyway. I've wanted to model a believable development/counter-development spiral ever since I saw it done really really well in an old strategy game called Spellcross. In SC you start out fighting with modern human weapons against wizards, ballistas and orcs with axes. You research scientific stuff like railguns and powered armour as well as recovered magical materials, and as your units get more powerful you start seeing new enemies like cannon towers and anti-tank orcs with fantasy bazookas. You really get a feeling that the enemy are learning from you as well as you from them, and it's been one of the most thrilling strategy experiences I've ever played.
Regards,
Ryan
-
I wrote a temporary description of the Coilgun on the Wiki, but it was deleted. That's rather uncalled for.
-
Sorry, we don't allow non-team edits to the UFOpaedia.
Regards,
Winter
-
Yeah, I guess I am not considered a team member...yet.
But still, why just delete it all. Why not move it somewhere? I wrote technical stuff on how coilguns work and a pretty good description of it's operation (in relation to the 3D model) . Changing the text or using some parts of it..
Heck I even written on top, bolded, that it's a placeholder description.
-
I just though of something.
I've been playing Jagged Alliance 2 (1.14 mod) and there's one think I liked very much - the new game options.
First you selected the difficulty, then you also could select normal mode or tuns of guns mod (a small selection of weapons or a HUUUUUGe one) and between Realistic and Sci-fi mode (affects weather or not you will fight the mutant crepitues and if you will find some special weapons like rocket rifles).
I was thinking of something similar for UFO:AI - a simple toggle to select between normal mode and tons of guns (all weapons available in singleplayer)
We could add some other weapons like a futurized AK-47.
Contrary to what some claim, reliability is a VERY important issue with special forces. The Spetsnaz use AK-47 extensively.
-
I guess this is something that can be done, after the game is more or less finished
-
@ Sophis
I was getting at new ammo types as well. For instance the blaster is so heavy that most troops cannot use it very well. Why would humans not figure out a way to pack the power into a smaller device? Or at least come to some terms with it. Like making plasma based ammo for the MG they can already use.
-
ak-101 and higher is also non bad weapon.. all russian army rearmed to them in 2006 as i remembered =)
also there are many ak-74 modifications.. AKS-74UB, AKS-74N.. etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-101
btw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-107
is looking quite cool too =)
some photos
http://www.sinopa.ee/sor/bo001/bo04av/bo04av03/04ak107/ak107.htm
http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/1513252331015913979bbEwEu
-
I have personally always preferred the heavier 7.62mm AK-variants (developer's name was Mikhail, not Anatoli), but the new HK416 (M4 variant (carbine variant of M16, if somebody didn't know)) looks very promising and it seems it is going to slowly replace M4 in US military. However, it isn't in any way anything new special something - it is just optimized version of existing rifle with german engineering.
But I do have a valid reason to reply to this thread. Weapons haven't actually evolved at all from the MP43/44/Stg44. It's the ammunition. This is where the initial situation should be focused: on different ammunition. Hard to believe there would be one-ammo-for-everthing in anywhere in future. Quite the opposite actually. Just my thoughts.
-
Military Investigates Amnesia Beams
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/10/air-forces-amne.html
-
the VHS has completed testing and is now in production..they've gone from this version:
http://forum.cafemontenegro.com/attachment.php?s=236dfdb0ad3720b9f7821d472f9a020f&attachmentid=15358&d=1195736612
to this:
http://forum.cafemontenegro.com/attachment.php?s=236dfdb0ad3720b9f7821d472f9a020f&attachmentid=15360&d=1195736632
Frankly, I like the looks of the first one better. Still, a really mean rifle according to the specs.
for those of you out of the loop, the VHS is a next-gen assault rifle. Only 2.3 kg, , RoF of 600 5.56mm NATO rounds a minute, nearly recoilless.
-
Everyone who has read my thread below knows how I feel about lasers.
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=3019.0 (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=3019.0)
-
I still love Calico brand weapons.
And the FN FAL was used by more countries than the M16, and was nicknamed the right arm of the free world. It had the accuracy of the m16, and the stopping power and reliability of the AK.
on topic though, I'm kind of surprised there are no microwave weapons in game. Considering that the first one is being tested in Iraq right now, they are certainly a possibility. Admittedly, it is Humvee mounted, but with a smaller power source, like the ones found in alien weapons...
-
I don't know about the whole microwave gun thing in-game. Last I heard, it had awful penetration potential, and that's assuming its being used on a target with sufficiently sensitive hide. I presume that some alien species would have considerable resistance even without armor, such as the Shevs or Orts, let alone anything mechanical.
-
if the target is wearing a conductive material i.e. metallic armor... it will heat them up quite nicely.... Well done alien anyone?
-
I'm not a physics major, or whatever type of science applies here, so I don't really know much about this, but when you start talking about "ray guns" shooting everything from microwaves to X-ray lasers to Gamma rays to Neutrons, etc., don't some of these things reflect and scatter a bit, having potential to damage something/someone other than the intended target?
-
In general you can say that there are only materials for reflecting EM-Waves below a certain wavelength. I dont know where the border is, but you wont be able to reflect X-Ray and Gamma ray. Only in special cases this is possible, but something like this wont ever happen on the battlefield.
Scattering would be just possible with Neutrons, but there are just a few of them doing this. Most of them will stay inside the materia and deploying their energy.
But you have to take into account that most of the X-Ray/Gamma-Ray (also some Neutrons) will just pass through your body. If you want to kill someone without waiting for him to die on cancer you have to make a really high current. And this current wont diminish that fast. You can say, that you are able to pass through a few cm of materia (depending on the starting Energy and the materia) before you get the half of the current. This means you could strike another alien/human behind the first target, or strike to a thin wall.
-
[...]we'd rather not rewrite articles unless absolutely necessary.[...]
yeah, so the "deuterium poisoning" :o is there to stay, i guess.
or maybe it was an attempt to add some humor to the game.
-
if we were taking into account all the health concerns none of those soldiers would want to fire the plasma gun without the radiation suit... thats if they could survive the heat being emitted
-
@ Sophis: Good idea on the tech branch off of research kerrblades for new ammo types. Of the management features in the game, I love the reasearch and equipment screens. I think shotguns could shine with new ammo types. A very versatile weapon because it can load all sorts of different rounds specialized for a job. I also think shotguns should get gas shells, which has been mentioned before.
1.) Upgraded Sabot/Armour Piercing slug
2.) Upgraded Flechettes
3.) Gas Shells, possibly lethal ones though I don't know if lethal gas is planned or not.
In game it can be justified that the shotgun is focused on because just the invasion of laser weapons pretty much shows projectile weapons are being phased out against the alien threat (ok not all). Have the description wax poetic over the shotgun's ongoing useful etc etc.
Love this site.
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh00-e.htm (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh00-e.htm)
-
if we were taking into account all the health concerns none of those soldiers would want to fire the plasma gun without the radiation suit... thats if they could survive the heat being emitted
i have sometimes wondered what a plasma weapon would really be about (sorry if that is not latest real-world weaponry).
tried wiki but didn't get any clue about what those weapons could be like.
do you have a link or something that would explain plasma weaponry a bit?
i was thinking of suggesting reactive armor that would specifically protect against plasma.
it would be covered with tiny explosive charges that would blow the plasma away from the soldier.
but, as i thought about it, i figured out that i have no idea of how a plasma projectile would respond to such tiny explosions or anything.
-
plasma will melt just about anything.... the radiation output alone would kill you within minutes...
there is no armor to protect you against plasma.. or if there was we'd build probes out of it and send them into the sun..
-
Well if aliens use armor (the one that gets you to nano-armor) that should suffice as the least most acceptable armor that provides safety for firing plasma weapons (for now unless the devs are changing that, which I doubt).
I think a minimal amount of armor for the safe use of plasma weapons could be an okay idea but Nano-comp armor is valuable enough on it's own I don't think it needs to be "sweetened up" any further. Armor requirements would also bottle neck safe use of plasma weapons (and I thought researching the weapon was supposed to cover how to safely use them). From what I have seen in the dev version so far (limited experience really) I do not think it makes sense to apply this to other non-plasma weapons.
Also don't forget that that plasma bolt is leaving the weapon at extreme speed, the short range is more due to the bolt losing energy and coherence as it travels than slow speed. I am no physics major but I think high speed would probably provide the best protection from a plasma bolt, the faster it leaves the area the less chance of it doing something unpleasant to the firer. Finally, plasma is nothing more really than ionized gas. Shielding within the weapon would protect the wielder from any sort of unpleasantness occurring in the weapon with every shot.
-
Did you really tried wiki?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_rifle
I think some ppl are missing the point that this is only a game. Fun > realism. It is important that things are plausible and most relistick as possible. Every one is used to things like plasma [and maybe even phasors ;)] so our job is to create a plausible explanation to how plasma works and not to think how it could not work.
Smae goes to armour. There is no computer firewall that can not be cracked and I like to think in this way about everything. Humans can and will adjust to anything, even to plasma weaponry and somebody will come up with an idea how to build an armour against it.
For example, if plasma 'projectile' is a highly condensed ionized superheated gas that is enveloped in some kind of magnetic 'shell' then the armour against it could be something that redirects those magnetic shells or disrupts its coherence before the projectile would get close enough to the target.
Already today the battlefield is filled with computers, I would imagine that in year 2087 the miniaturisation[and having alien nano technology] would allow to fill an armour with lots of defensive gizmos.
[I think the reall problem of the game is the time, to simplify nations of the world were united in few blocks so it could not be in presence but year 2087 is to far for me, 2027 would sufice, but that is a topic for a whole thread]
-
Well if aliens use armor (the one that gets you to nano-armor) that should suffice as the least most acceptable armor that provides safety for firing plasma weapons (for now unless the devs are changing that, which I doubt).
I think a minimal amount of armor for the safe use of plasma weapons could be an okay idea but Nano-comp armor is valuable enough on it's own I don't think it needs to be "sweetened up" any further. Armor requirements would also bottle neck safe use of plasma weapons (and I thought researching the weapon was supposed to cover how to safely use them). From what I have seen in the dev version so far (limited experience really) I do not think it makes sense to apply this to other non-plasma weapons.
Also don't forget that that plasma bolt is leaving the weapon at extreme speed, the short range is more due to the bolt losing energy and coherence as it travels than slow speed. I am no physics major but I think high speed would probably provide the best protection from a plasma bolt, the faster it leaves the area the less chance of it doing something unpleasant to the firer. Finally, plasma is nothing more really than ionized gas. Shielding within the weapon would protect the wielder from any sort of unpleasantness occurring in the weapon with every shot.
Aliens from a different planet lightyears away.... that have different biological qualities.. one which is probably high resistance to radiation.... more than the 4000 celsius you have to deal with is the radioactive output of most plasma... i hope no one plans on walking where you fired that thing for 10000 plus years... else they are going to have a bad life... even at high speeds.. exposure to these temperatures and radiation levels will kill you.... the armor you are talking about would have to be a new alloy that is not on earth (where do you get the materials) that is not only heat resistant but also deflects radioactivity... it would have to cover you from head to toe... and again... id like to mention.. i hope you dont expect civilians to reoccupy a house for 10k+ years after you and mr orknok have been firing plasma bolts through it...
-
Plasma and radiation do not go hand in hand...now if the devs had written in anti-matter weapons I'd be crying about radiation too.
Defense against plasma? The devs have said that shields (and I think fields) are not fitting for the setting so the next best defenses are:
1.) Not getting hit (with a wide berth)
OR
2.) Insulating the target from the heat of the bolt...that means super materials, in this case nano-based armor.
-
maybe you havent heard.... of cold plasma.. its not always a matter of insulating from heat... there are so many different types of plasma you could really only focus on one for protection
I do agree with the 2 points you made.. not all plasma has radioactive properties and that nano armor would be the way to go ....
However given the high variable in temperature alone i just dont see how you could protect yourself from all the forms that exist
The reason i mention radiation so much is that well... most of the plasma we are able to produce that could be weaponized has a high radiation output due to the processes involved in producing it..... im sure they can work that out in the next 75 years but I am still skeptical of "radiation free" plasma
-
Geez, Okay okay there is cold plasma too but I doubt the PHALANX guys are going to just stand there and let the alien spray them with it. However...cryo weapons are a pretty cool idea.
As far as the radiation goes, like I mentioned before, if you accelerate that plasma bolt away from you at high speeds...less exposure time.
NOW, as far as collateral damage goes (i.e. starting fires, irradiating the area...) I think the devs are entitled to a little artistic license and the ability to decide whether or not their plasma weapons also spew dangerous amounts of rads everytime they are fired.
-
WOW!
Wat a discussion on plasma. lol.
Okie, i agree that Fun > realism is impt. But i dun mind force-fields! :P
-
BTW one current theory on making cool (pun intended) conductors for coil guns is to use plasma in tubes instead of wires.
I liked forcefields in the x-com clone done by Microsloth...you wanna talk about radiation problems though...some sci-fi settings have units emitting alpha-particles to form a field. However I think it has been mentioned before somewhere that fields and riot shields are not fitting in the setting.
-
The plasma guns in UFO:AI use a micro fusion reactor to generate a helium hydrogen plasma. Which in itself is barely radioactive.
So all that the armor has to really protect from is the intense heat and some ceramics and polymers do a pretty good job of that.
The most radiation would come from the reactor, but there are several different reactions possible in this context and I'm pretty sure, with their advanced technology the aliens can adjust the reactor's settings to favor those reactions that produce the least excess radiation and the casing would protect the shooter from most if not all of that.
-
Latest real-world weaponary? Bah, where are the crossbows, swords and garottes? Let's get medieval on those aliens! :P
Okay, real question. Is there any stealth element? Sneaking up on the aliens seems nigh on impossible, and almost every time I've tried it I've been given a bracing hot-plasma enema as I ran for cover when the alien turned around to face me at the last minute.
If there is a stealth element then there could be a whole range of designated 'stealth' weapons. The game has knives, but I never get close enough to use them. The curving requirement of the material to make kerrblades (s.p.?) would make an almost ideal shape for a mono-molecular boomerang (anyone remember Mad Max 2, the kid with the steel boomerang?).
Just an idea. Normally I have three elements in my teams, snipers (for long-range engagements and to provide covering fire for the forward team to advance under), assault (for moving in close, despite the name this doesn't mean assault weapons, and is normally a mix of heavy and assault weapons), and finally scouts (for moving ahead of the assault element and identifying targets to be taken out by the snipers or assault team so I'm not walking into situations blind, but they also double as melee and silent kill specialists). On the 2.2.1 version I'm playing I've pretty much had to remove the scouting element or rename them something appropriate like "Deadmeat", because the aliens spot them every time and come around corners to find them, requiring me to advertise for replacement scouts as follows:
"Scout wanted - bring your own body bag.".
Okay, I'm drifting off topic. Real-world weaponary I'd like to see.. hmmm...
1. If/When Tanks are implemented you should be able to run people over, because there's nothing like a little vehicular alien-slaughter to brighten up your day ;). Hell you could even mount kerrblades on the exterior of the tank (the UFO equivalent of a huge pair of bull's horns) and drive through the aliens at high speed... Wheeeee!! It slices, it dices, it goes through New York traffic like a dream! (disclaimer: if your dreams don't involve people screaming and running, and you slicing through other people's cars then this product may disappoint). This idea may be a little red-neck for some people, but personally I think its great. If this is implemented the tank also needs bumper stickers and a confederate flag ;).
2. Proper heavy weapons - The machine gun is all very nice, but where are the real heavy weapons? The type where the soldier has to crouch in order to put down the tripod and stabiliser, and has to carry a backpack of belt-fed rounds (no more reloading... or at least not for 4 or 5 seconds of continuous fire!).
3. Civilian pacifier - Okay, civilians have an irritating habit of clustering around my soldiers and getting in the way of my aim. Now every grunt knows that there is no lower life form than a civilian (except possibly an officer). I'd like a little something to 'persuade' civilians go away! I mean I do appreciate the meat-shield, but often it just blocks my reactive fire as aliens come around the corner. Possible a 'shove' or 'fist to the gut' option to get them to crouch out of my line of fire? I know the civilians are clustering around my men in the hopes of protection, but do they have to cluster near the business-end of my gun?
4. Entrenching Tool - A mono-molecular entrenching tool would be way cool. I mean imagine the joy of slicing through a wall to create a keyhole for firing! Also handy for self-defense, and for slicing off a chunk of that all-you-can eat salad bar (gotta get value for money!). Ooopps, just remembered that destructable terrain isn't possible. Darn. Still, good for that salad bar and for opening pesky cans.
Okay, this is getting a little silly, but I was so elated by the lack of flaming at my first post that I felt free to express my inner wombat. This is what happens when you're too nice to noobs ;)
-
Unless the devs are planning on allowing stealthy raids into alien bases there is not point for these 'stealth' weapons.
-
UFO:AI isn't, and won't be about stealth. That said, I do have plans to develop a system that allows actors to be hidden in shadows and generally be hard to spot. This isn't meant for sneaking up, it's more for firing from a hidden location.
-
So a system where one actor may not always see another actor due to cover, lighting etc?
EDIT: Or would it be more for allowing a dude a higher chance of getting his rxn fire off before the target can do anything?
-
No, mainly lighting and visibility. There's a proposal (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Gameplay_Proposals/Visibility).
-
Thanks for the link, I see what you meant. The system with the 10 rays. Having IR goggles would help increase the soldiers base detection ability which would help counter the stealth bonus given to a partially obscured target?
-
I really haven't thought about the IR goggles much, but as far as I'm concerned they should give you a general indication of sources of heat, without identifying them specifically. Night vision, on the other hand, would increase detection ability at night (and decrease it by day).
-
Why separate the goggles into IR and Night vision goggles?
-
I don't like the idea of one piece of equipment doing everything. It's hard enough as it is to find more uses for the headgear slot.
-
I really like the [in]visibility system you've proposed.
Just to put what follows in perspective I'd like to outline some basic stats. A single block is 1.3 meters (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Dimensions), and takes 2 TUs to move in standing position. What that means in terms of this discussion is that if Actor A can see 10 meters further than Actor B, then Actor B will have to move forward 8 blocks (7.7 blocks rounded up) at a cost of 16 TUs in order to see Actor A. For an average Joe 16 TUs represents 1/2 a round (assuming a standard 30 TUs), and allows enough time over to reserve multi-shot reactive fire (14TUs), or fire a burst or similar attack from most basic weapons, or a single snap shot with some TUs left over for crouching and turning (but not enough to reserve any reactive fire).
Here are the dissection notes for each of the aliens in question:
Taman - "The large, overdeveloped eyes equip the Taman with natural night-vision. It has special irises that protect the retinas from bright light such as sunlight, but if a sudden blast of highly intense illumination were to hit the retina before the iris can adjust, it could cause prolonged or even permanent blindness. Our flashbang may be highly effective here." (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Aliens/Taman)
Ortnok - "The eyes are covered with surgically-implanted lenses that improve the Ortnok's already excellent vision, stretching it into the infrared spectrum. The ears consist of a series of small cavities, three on either side of the head, which are surprisingly large and well-developed. Given the evidence we must conclude that Ortnoks have acute hearing..." (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Aliens/Ortnok)
Sheevar - "Behind the curls of bone there is a set of three organs that seem to detect infrared radiation. This is apparently what the Shevaar uses in lieu of eyes. We conclude that the sensitivity of these organs is roughly comparable to that of a human wearing PHALANX-standard IR Goggles." (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Aliens/Shevaar)
For those who don't want to flip between BTAxis's proposal and this page here are his suggested detection scores:
Species Day Night
Human 50 25
Ortnok 60 60
Taman 25 75
Shevaar 50 50
Hovernet 75 75
Okay, sorry for the long pre-amble.
1. Implications for equipment
The autopsies suggest that Shevaar vision is the same as IR goggles, and Taman vision is like night vision goggles. What this means for game play is that, while humans have lousy natural night vision the simple addition of goggles could boost their night vision to 50 or 75. This is a BIG jump. 75 is probably too high and probably not what BTAxis intended, I'm guessing that the number would be closer to 50.
2. The differences are too big
Okay, no offense BTAxis, but the differences in detection values are simply too high. The Ortnok to Human difference during day-time (Ortnok 60, Human 50) represents 16 TUs spent just to close the vision difference. That seems like a fair number to me, enough to make things tense, not enough to mean that you're a meat pinata to an opponent you can never get close enough to see. I'd suggest a 120% cap on the spread.
To justify my position lets look at the 25 meter (19 blocks) difference between a Human and a Taman during the day. This means that a Taman has to move 38 TUs to find the human who is shooting at him. This means 1 round of fire when the Taman has no clue who is shooting at him, and then possibly another round of undefended reactive fire while the Taman advances. The situation is reversed at night for Human vs Taman with the Human having to move a massive 76 TUs (2 1/2 rounds) before they even see the Taman who is riddling them full of holes. Being shot by a totally anonymous blob out somewhere on the screen is simply not fun.
I'd suggest modifying the values so that the gap is no more than 120%. This will make the game a lot more fun... of course aliens can have amazingly poor vision, I really don't mind, but it does make it a bit like shooting fish in a barrel, and I object when I'm the fish.
3. Movement and Firing
It would be nice if each TU you used increased your visibility, so if you run 10TUs then fire a 14TU burst and are 60 meters from your opponent then your visibility would be 60m - 24 = 36 visibility, easy to see.
4. Ranges for weapons
50 detection for humans means that you can see 50m, which means that all sniper shots will be at close range. A possible fix for this is to implement scopes on certain weapons. You were saying that there wasn't enough headgear equipment. What about binoculars, or scopes as headgear (Yes, I know this may seem a little strange, but thing about it like this, you can't use the scope on your sniper rifle and your IR goggles at the same time, you have to choose one). Basically some weapons would come flagged as 'scoped', and occupy the headgear slot automatically with a scope. Using the scope would multiply your basic sight range by the weapon's range as a %, for example a weapon with 250m range would make a human's detection change from 50 to 125, but possibly at a cost such as being unable to move while using a scope (ever tried to move while looking through a scope... best case you get a blinding headache, worst case you break both legs trying to jump a rock that is actually 100 meters away), so you need to 'activate' the scope to aim, then 'deactivate' it when you want to shift position.
Other headgear ideas (because you mentioned you wanted more):
- Shades - because they're cool. Might increase detection a little during day.
- HUD (Heads Up Display) - May be required for some high-tech weapons to manipulate the control interface and monitor variables like radiation emissions, heat levels, and that thingy that goes ping.
- Eye Movement Tracking Unit - A unit that tracks eye movement and assists with auto-targeting of weapons. Basically if you can see your target then it helps you aim. Could provide ballistic information for grenade launchers on ideal arc, etc.
-
Okay, no offense BTAxis, but the differences in detection values are simply too high.
The values in the proposal are by no means "intended". They're only there for the sake of explanation.
3. Movement and Firing
It would be nice if each TU you used increased your visibility, so if you run 10TUs then fire a 14TU burst and are 60 meters from your opponent then your visibility would be 60m - 24 = 36 visibility, easy to see.
I was thinking of something like that too, except I'd just make it binary. You stay still -> you get a bonus. You move -> you don't.
4. Ranges for weapons
50 detection for humans means that you can see 50m, which means that all sniper shots will be at close range. A possible fix for this is to implement scopes on certain weapons. You were saying that there wasn't enough headgear equipment. What about binoculars, or scopes as headgear (Yes, I know this may seem a little strange, but thing about it like this, you can't use the scope on your sniper rifle and your IR goggles at the same time, you have to choose one). Basically some weapons would come flagged as 'scoped', and occupy the headgear slot automatically with a scope. Using the scope would multiply your basic sight range by the weapon's range as a %, for example a weapon with 250m range would make a human's detection change from 50 to 125, but possibly at a cost such as being unable to move while using a scope (ever tried to move while looking through a scope... best case you get a blinding headache, worst case you break both legs trying to jump a rock that is actually 100 meters away), so you need to 'activate' the scope to aim, then 'deactivate' it when you want to shift position.
Actually, I was planning to abstract from this. A sniper would be able to fire at an enemy that was technically out of its sight range as long as it was in range of the weapon and there was a clear shot. If not, indirect fire weapons would be put at an advantage, since they can be fired at a location that's "blind" to the soldier, but not to the player.
-
The values in the proposal are by no means "intended". They're only there for the sake of explanation.
Ahh, okay. If/when you get to final implementation I'd still say that visibility differences should only translate to about 15 or so TUs, otherwise you end up hunting ghosts, which isn't much fun.
I was thinking of something like that too, except I'd just make it binary. You stay still -> you get a bonus. You move -> you don't.
Would it be possible to reasonably easily code moving/firing less than 1/2 TUs? Here's the logic. Double reactive fire is described as the cost of a soldier moving slowly and carefully, so if someone uses less than 1/2 their TUs (excluding provision for reactive fire) then they're moving slowly and carefully. It means you're not discouraging any movement, just encouraging players to move slowly and carefully. It means more fun because people aren't just hitting "end turn" every round to keep their soldiers hidden, but it keeps the pace of the game tense.
Actually, I was planning to abstract from this. A sniper would be able to fire at an enemy that was technically out of its sight range as long as it was in range of the weapon and there was a clear shot. If not, indirect fire weapons would be put at an advantage, since they can be fired at a location that's "blind" to the soldier, but not to the player.
Yay! There'll be a reason for my sneaky spotter scouts again!
Sorry about all the math in the last post, I thought that was a firm proposal and when I saw it I immediately converted it into TUs and went, "Nooooo!" ;).
P.S. Off topic: *ahem* I'm probably a moron, but where do I download the latest development build? I'm running Windows XP, and most of the development mirrors are labelled stuff like Ubuntu and Debian.
-
Mind you, part of the reason I want this whole system in the first place IS so you can get shot by enemies you can't see (yet). It happened in X-COM a lot, and it added to the scary atmosphere. Especially at night (disregarding mechanical aid for a moment), I don't think you should be able to see aliens only a few steps after they see you. After all, it's not as if aliens will always take pot shots at you all the time. Add to this alien aggressiveness: in a future AI they should actively engage the player, as opposed to hiding all the time. It won't be hunting ghosts. The ghosts will be hunting you.
You can get the latest development version through SVN, though there are people who post snapshot installers in the Windows forum. These are quickly outdated, though.
-
That sound hellishly scary!! ... but also incredibly cool. I like the idea of having the aliens hunting you, I hate having to play hunt the last alien who is hiding in the furthest, darkest, least accessible square of the map ... and then shoots you when you finally find him because you've split your team across the entire map and have been a little less cautious because the entire exercise is sooooo boring.
Thanks for the tip on finding the build. I'll install now.
P.S. I realise I'm waaaay off topic here. Sorry.
-
Right, this discussion didn't really belong in this thread. Carry on.
-
What sort of weapon extensions are planned for the game? Under barrel shotguns and grenade launchers? Scopes? I did not see anything regarding extensions in the wiki cept for the gui comment.
EDIT: @ BTAxis this is not my game, but separating the different vision goggles does not make sense from anything but your rationale that you do not want items doing too many (or in this case everything) things. I respectfully disagree. You are already going to have the goggles incur a penalty to accuracy IIRC, walls the aliens hide behind are not destructable and it costs TU to switch between modes (though not to use IIRC). The penalties for using the gear will probably stop people from equipping their entire squad with goggles, per the UFOpaedia it is recommended only half the team uses it to begin with AND snipers can't use them anyhow. instead of passive use, I would make using the goggles take some sort of TU to representing fiddling with them to get a better picture.
I suggest either:
1.) obsolete these goggles during the course of the story through upgraded alien countermeasures, or
2.) do not make them 100% reliable.
I think the first option is better.
-
Well, like I said I really didn't think about them all that much. It's just that I'm trying to justify the headgear slot to myself, and so far nothing has really managed to do that. I'm not impressed with the suggestions given in this thread, considering we also plan on doing implants AND weapon modifications. There's only so many bonuses you can give, and simply stacking them seems like a bad idea to me.
-
I had an idea for a new weapon/item. I don't know precisely how to categorise it, but it would probably fall under "miscellaneous". From the discussion about stealth and sight ranges it struck me that one of the most perceptive alien races also has highly developed hearing,
Ortnok - "The eyes are covered with surgically-implanted lenses that improve the Ortnok's already excellent vision, stretching it into the infrared spectrum. The ears consist of a series of small cavities, three on either side of the head, which are surprisingly large and well-developed. Given the evidence we must conclude that Ortnoks have acute hearing..." (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Aliens/Ortnok)
It struck me that they might be sensitive to some sort of sonics. Now I'm not talking about "sonic guns" or anything, but rather a much simpler (and arguably more effective) device that would emit sounds in a frequency inaudible to humans, but at least very distracting to the aliens, and at best actually painful and disorienting. The Sheevar, with unusually large quantities of bone in their skulls might also be vulnerable to similar frequencies.
This "weapon" could take the form of an add-on to the drop-ship (e.g. a large transmitter that screams these frequencies across the battlefield), or perhaps a series of transmitters on poles that soldiers plant into the ground as they go. Hell, if you want to be slightly tongue-in-cheek about it you could even have soldiers trotting into battle with boom-boxes playing, "Yodelling Hits 2030", or "The Best of Bagpipes". I'd call the item a "screamer", because that is basically the effect its trying to achieve. It's difficult to concentrate in battle with someone screaming in your ears all the time.
This could even develop into a whole tech branch with sonic staves (although I'd prefer to visualise this as a sonic naginata) - a weapon that emits a pulse of sound designed to resonate with alien physiology to bypass their natural defenses, new flash-bangs - designed to emit frequencies that are more effective against a wider range of aliens, and eventually possibly even crystalline rounds designed to penetrate skin and then emit a sound pulse that is amplified and damages internal organs, before shattering and inflicting a little damage (the plus with this round is that bone could also carry the sound to the auditory nerves and have a stunning effect).
This sort of idea has been around for a while, I think the military investigated the idea back in the 60's, Kate Bush wrote a song about it. ... oh, and there's also, "Day of the Killer Tomotoes", but I don't think we want to go there.
-
I think the headgear slot is going to become deadweight. After all, once powered armor becomes available why wouldn't it already have headgear items built into it's own helmet? Spending time working on something that ultimately is going to be marginalized seems like a waste of your time.
I think the headgear slot should be reserved for head based implants which would be useful throughout the mid to late game instead of head items whose use tapers off mid to late game. The goggles are a cool idea man, it just seems it would eb hard to justify continued use of head hardware once those powered armor suits roll out.
Of course none of this really matters if powered armor is to be an extreme end game item.
@Frungy: heh thats a clever idea. I have not used flashbangs against Ortnoks, are they effective? If not then perhaps sonic devices could be an improved flashbang.
-
G'day all..
Just wondering if there is/or will be added some kind of ranged stunning weapon..
A researchable tranq that will be available after doin a set amount of autopsy's to test effectiveness.
A short ranged tazer like weapon, could work just like stun-rod with 2 settings with varying TU usage, make these TU's higher than the stun-rod to balance the fact that it can be used a short range.. 2-4 squares..
just pondering while waiting on reply to posts..
-
There are gas grenades in the game already. Also I *think* the electrolaser may be another ranged stun weapon which is being developed.
-
It struck me that they might be sensitive to some sort of sonics. Now I'm not talking about "sonic guns" or anything, but rather a much simpler (and arguably more effective) device that would emit sounds in a frequency inaudible to humans, but at least very distracting to the aliens, and at best actually painful and disorienting.... oh, and there's also, "Day of the Killer Tomotoes", but I don't think we want to go there.
"Teen-age cell phone ring tones!". Inaudible to adults, painful to aliens.
And what's wrong with "Puberty Love" from "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes"? We can always use sheet music if they get earmuffs later on to invalidate our sonic weapons.
-
Speaking of latest real-world weaponry and sonic weapons please watch this presentation: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/woody_norris_invents_amazing_things.html
Maybe sonic weapons are not that far away as we think :>
-
And what's wrong with "Puberty Love" from "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes"? We can always use sheet music if they get earmuffs later on to invalidate our sonic weapons.
My trolling skills are going down. No one responded.
Alright, why are the alien techs FIXED? We've got aliens that are vulnerable to sonic weapons. We design and deploy sonic weapons; apparently these aliens have never had anyone do this to them yet.
So why don't they develop earplugs/earmuffs/something else just as simple?
Very serious: Why not have the aliens tech increase in response to our tech increases?
Sure, we can do a better second generation that relies on vibrations that bypass the ear and target the internet sensor organs; imagine a sonic weapon that has the natural resonance frequency of the earbones. Ear plugs won't help at all.
The next weapon war might be noise cancellation; we can do that with modern earmuffs now. Maybe the aliens have a noise cancellation emitter in the middle of their UFO's after a while, so that while it is intact (not destroyed; not crashed) then no sonic weapon is effective inside the UFO but is effective outside the UFO.
Etc.
-
Speaking of latest real-world weaponry and sonic weapons please watch this presentation: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/woody_norris_invents_amazing_things.html
Maybe sonic weapons are not that far away as we think :>
The israelis have been using them for at least 2 years...
the non lethal versions anyway... the US DOD has several lethal sonic weapons... still classified... youd be amazed at the goodies that never hit the market or the mainstream military... all in the name of ethics and morals.... Really i thought when it came to killing people morality was one of those optional things.. apparently not...