UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Design => Topic started by: vadim on January 07, 2008, 04:58:43 am
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I'm thinking there could be a lot more laser related tech:
* Laser sights for weapons. Advantages: Increases accuracy with no TU cost. Disadvantages: Makes yourself more visible to whoever you're pointing at, at the very least. In dusty/dark conditions paints a nice line right back to you, so every enemy around notices you're there. Makes automatic defenses detect you much more easily and shoot at you with greater accuracy.
* Anti-laser armor. Some sort of tech wonder, which reflects the wavelength used by the laser. Perhaps some opportunity for extra complexity here. Armor can be tuned to one wavelength (though works against all others, just worse), weapons can be fabricated in different wavelengths (higher more expensive). Advantage: very good anti-laser protection, better than any other armor. Disadvantage: Sucks vs everything else as it's a complex and delicate assembly, it reflects light so it again makes you very noticeable.
* Dropship-mounted laser turret, for combat assistance. Advantage: More accurate, longer range, and more powerful than a soldier's weapon. Disadvantage: Can be disadvantaged by placing it at door level, so that elevation differences noticeably hinder it. Can't move, attracts fire towards dropship, which should take damage. Enough damage means the dropship explodes in a big fireball. Any damage taken must be repaired at the base, which takes time.
Gameplay idea (perhaps should be discussed separately). If the dropship explodes, everybody nearby is killed. Easiest way is assuming it's a complete mission failure. Alternative: Whoever remains can fight the aliens. Then back to the geoscape and it turns into a rescue mission. Aliens will try to drop in there as well, or attack a base to maximize advantage.
* Laser turret at base: Defense against alien invasion. Same thing as on dropship, works so long there's power. Specifically a laser because accuracy and non-explosive tech minimizes base damage. Doesn't run out of ammo, works off the base's power supply. Stops working if the base's generator is destroyed (assuming the base can survive that).
* Portable turret: Stays where put and shoots enemies. Advantages: Large ammo capacity, automatic, decent accuracy (but worse than a fixed/dropship turret). Disadvantages: Expensive, takes the whole backpack, heavy, takes many TUs to deploy. Decently armored but far from invulnerable. Can be picked up, but again at a high TU cost. Works automatically, so may not shoot at what you want. Doesn't shoot during the turn it's been deployed (charging up, etc).
The idea is that this should work as an unmoving soldier putting all TUs into reaction fire. Can't be told what to shoot, and always shoots during the enemy's turn. Deploying it is a lengthy enough affair that it consumes enough TUs to make whoever deploys it a sitting duck. Additionally, the turret spends the first turn preparing, so this doesn't help whoever set it up. This should make it a strategic defensive weapon, but hard to use offensively.
Comments?
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Love the portable turret idea. However, I think that rather than having the sentry use a fixed weapon, a more modular approach should be pursued. Basically, the sentry would have something of a minature inventory; a hardpoint, which could be loaded with any infantry weapon, and an ammunition repository. Upon spawning, the sentry would then be equipped with the stocked weapon and ammunition. Alternatively, the sentry gun could use weapons specific to it, and this range of weaponry would be expandable with research (encompassing laser variants, particle beam variants, etc...).
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While a portable turret might be nice for PHALANX, it also requires that aliens know how to react to those turrets. The AI must be adapted as well else it might be a very powerful weapon that enables exploitation under certain circumstances.
Secondly can the reaction fire deal with this? Currently it is designed for one reaction. It must be able to react multiple times and that according to the TU scheme of the enemy which poses us several problems.
situationA: and enemy walks in, the turret shoots. Then what? turret has more TU's but it would be not fair to let him use all TU's and hammer the alien full force. The reaction fire should only fire if the enemy also consume the same amount of TU's so he might cross a small passage without taking 5 hits.
situationB: enemy walks in, turret fires, enemy stops. turn ends. The turret didnt shoot at its full potential. is that a problem?
situation C: enemy1 walks in turret shoots, enemy2 walks in. What is now the timing of the turret? Can it fire immediately, does it has to wait until THIS alien moves for enough TU's? Or ANY alien? This might permit it to shoot always or to fire only once.
Remember that each alien has a different timing. In realtime, those 2 aliens walked into the room at the same time but this is turn based. Because grenades explode, regardless of the timing each actor has, we must ignore the real time altogether.
One possible not so elegant solution is to permit the turret to shoot at max 1 alien each turn. But the amount of shots depends on the number of TU's consumed by the alien.
Question: what is the damage laser weapons do? If it can cut in your flesh, why wouldnt it puncture walls and equipment as well? A laser missing its target might kill the powerstation. Thus causing more havoc as explosive weapons.
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While a portable turret might be nice for PHALANX, it also requires that aliens know how to react to those turrets. The AI must be adapted as well else it might be a very powerful weapon that enables exploitation under certain circumstances.
If the turret is spawned as a hostile actor relative to the aliens, which it should be, then the default AI will know to attack and destroy it. No modifications are necessary. If you did however, want to make the aliens better at dealing with the turret, you'd create a subroutine which would have them use indirect weaponry, such as plasma greandes against it if at all possible.
Secondly can the reaction fire deal with this? Currently it is designed for one reaction. It must be able to react multiple times and that according to the TU scheme of the enemy which poses us several problems.
Yes. Pre-existing reaction fire AI would essentially be the extent of the turret's directives, and it would be functional; just set the desired RF fire mode and number of RF shots and you're good to go. RF is designed to result in as many reactions as is supported by an actor's TUs. Further, allowing the sentry to make full use of RF would not be imbalanced. Turrets would be stationary, expensive, occupy a 2x5 space in the inventory, require many time units to set up, and further must be equipped with an additional weapon and ammo. Being immobile, they are also exceedingly vulnerable to indirect fire, which they are powerless to deal with. Losing a sentry is also far from a pleasant prospect financially.
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The problems i described are not as much that the game wont compile or execute correctly but that the gameplay will be hampered.
A turret needs to have heavy weaponary, else it will be too weak to use. But this heavy weaponry can be "abused" easily if the AI isnt smart enough. A turret requires a different strat to combat as compared to battle a soldier. For a human, no prob, but for an AI that is more difficult to establish. Currently the only way i see is to use explosives and lob them close to turret. If the AI doesnt do that he is prone to be out in the open for a long time and , since he has less firepower, the turret will always win.
With RF the situation remains. Will the turret use all his TU's once triggered? That would mean an instant death to anyone walking around the corner. -> situation A
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???
I don't remember interpreting the issues you've mentioned as ones that interfere with compilation or execution.
As for your points concerning the turret weaponry, I don't find that a turret needs to be equipped with heavy weaponry per say. It depends on the situation of course. Perhaps you might want something more accurate for example, than a mounted machine gun. In any case, if the existing AI can deal with mobile power armoured humans equipped with particle beam cannons and plasma blasters, I don't believe it'll have any especial difficulty in dealing with similarily armed immobile sentries, which probably aren't much more durable, with or without enhancements.
Now, concerning RF, the turret would likely utilize the standard system. In otherwords, it could only use a portion of its TUs on each reaction. It could not utilize all of them on a single reaction trigger, unless of course, the firemode selected required that many. In addition, turrets are not assured of a reaction before an alien discharges a shot, just like a typical soldier. It is possible, although unlikely, that they may be destroyed before they are able to inflict any damage whatsoever. Either way, there is little difference in the difficulty of countering a turret, and a camping, heavily armoured and armed human.
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After some rerethinking I think I might have a different idea of how it will interact in the game. My interpretation is triggered by your "expensive" initial description. I am looking at it as an expensive equipment as in "dont let this be destroyed or you might as well give up" with the function of guarding a field that as such becomes almost impenetrable for aliens. Of course, the cheaper the turrets become, the less powerful it can become and the less problems it will pose because it will become closer to an immobile soldier. Power and cost must always match each other.
The turret can not use TU's except for reaction fire, can it? You said it cant spend ALL TU's on a single reaction trigger. Then OR the turret cannot use all its TU's ever(they are redundant) OR you might have multiple triggers. This does only make sense if the turret cannot shoot on an enemy in sight, which is the scenario i rather had in mind. Of course this brings us to the point: if the turrets only returns fire, then the enemy can safely ignore them at all, or walk past them and kick them in the unprotected butt. Which means the turret can always be rendered useless by the enemy at no cost.
The reason as of why i had this interpretation as a powerful guard is that I cant see the point in weak turrets that get destroyed by any alien strolling about. I cant see its use nor the tactical possibilities it gives. A powerfull turret as i described can be used to cut off a passage to the enemy team unless they manage to tackle the turret at its weak spot (immobility) and thus posses a tactical element. In that case, AI has to be adapted.
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The turret can not use TU's except for reaction fire, can it? You said it cant spend ALL TU's on a single reaction trigger. Then OR the turret cannot use all its TU's ever(they are redundant) OR you might have multiple triggers. This does only make sense if the turret cannot shoot on an enemy in sight, which is the scenario i rather had in mind. Of course this brings us to the point: if the turrets only returns fire, then the enemy can safely ignore them at all, or walk past them and kick them in the unprotected butt. Which means the turret can always be rendered useless by the enemy at no cost.
I do not believe you understand how RF works. Basically, any movement (including movement into an RFer's LoS I believe) or attack has a probability of triggering it. Thus, using the standard system, it is almost impossible to simply walk behind a turret from a distance in front, and destroy it before being blasted to an untimely death.
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The sentry idea sounds nice.
How about red lasers on top of a gun? It could maybe even work through fog (if the fog
is not too dense), and it could definitely help raise the aim chance (and hit the target too)
Come to think about it ... i would love some "tech upgrades" to equipment, like a
sharp bayonette on the top tip of a gun to cut aliens in close combat hehe... :)
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Come to think about it ... i would love some "tech upgrades" to equipment, like a
sharp bayonette on the top tip of a gun to cut aliens in close combat hehe... :)
When the alien gets in to melee range I always use the microshotgun or SMG for a devastating effect. Unfortunately the melee/thrown aspect of combat in this game has been a bit overlooked, and the melee weapons are quite ineffective later on.
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A plasma blade is always a great back up weapon. It's instant death.
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A plasma blade is always a great back up weapon. It's instant death.
yes but the microshotgun is available from day 1 :)
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But the microshotgun is instant death only versus unarmoured aliens. The plasma blade by comparison, kills everything without exception.
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@topic:
I miss or suggest following technologies:
1. Ultra-heavy vehicle-mounted laser-cannons
I have the impression, that chemical lasers like the today THEL are the model for all laser-weapons in UFO.
So - why is there no tactical airbone laser?
Not as strong as the particle beam. We could also use the standard D-F cartridge - one for one single shot, similar to the SHIVA rounds. This could be also a weapon for the base defence system.
2. Battlefield surveillance
Surveillance is essential to all modern battlefields - but where is it in UFO?
I suggest a probe which could be fired by the rocket-launcher and hanging on a little parachute on the 8th cutting plane. It could be shut down by aliens, of course.
3. Fire support
As mentioned before - like the dropship mounted laser-turred - is there no fire support by aircrafts, satellites or artillery? Of course, we cannot use that in dense settled areas - but maybe with smart ammo? Therefore we need the laser-sights, or a laser-marker to 'paint' the target.
4. Intelligent 'smart' ammo
For example 'smart' rockets for the rocket-launcher, where you ca set up waypoints which the rockets follow - like a cruise missile.
cu
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There's a reason why most projectiles are dumbed-down, though -- ECM from alien ships is so effective that only iron-sights weapons work :( Could be a good weapon for the late-game, though.
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Ah, I see - that is the reason, why the IR-glasses don't work yet. ;)
So, even if i cannot see any UFO on the map - we have alien ECM?
cu
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Precisely :D
Alien craft on the ground emit fantastic amounts of jamming and other EW (Electronic Warfare) activity. In fact, they emit so much of it that ordinary 'smart' missiles are rendered completely ineffective. If one type of alien EW doesn't fool the missile's relatively stupid electronic brain, another will. No amount of tinkering by Earth's military engineers has been able to fix the situation. The MPMDS, however, will remain effective against the alien invaders -- one of the few human missile launchers that can -- because its rockets carry no onboard guidance.
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Ah, I see - thx for the quote.
A solution to this quite unpleasant situation might be the use of the tech of the 1980s...
Rockets which are guided by the shooter per wire, like today the TOW, MILAN or HOT.
These systems need permanent tracking by the shooter - which could be expressed by a lot of Tu's.
cu
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Three points about the ECM, and you do realize that mobile weapons platforms are coming down the pipe?
First all references to the ECM of the UFOpaedia references to (edit) active detection methods(laser, radar, sonar, etc.) of the time being ineffective. The sparrow hawk missiles use passive, on board optical tracking, and it works just fine. The UFOs are just too tough or fast to be endangered by them outside a barrage.
Second, the ECM is centric to the craft, there is no reference to it being affective vs indirect artillery fire or anything else not targeting them.
Artillery work just fine in World War I & II without the aid of sophisticated electronics to aid it. Just took observation and math.
:P :)
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Artillery work just fine in World War I & II without the aid of sophisticated electronics to aid it. Just took observation and math.
Exactly. ;D
The accuracy could be linked to the basic skill "mind" of the observer.
cu
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sounds like great ideas....the ship mounted weapon would be whatever gets mounted on the drop ship, if its the cannon, then its the cannon (better reaction fire, more aliens), rocket pod fires rockets etc.
the deployable cannon would take 2 turns, one to move into position the next turn uses all time units to deploy. then it uses reaction fire, or you can use it in the current turn if there is a visible alien...but then your TU for reactions would disaapear.
while carrying the turrett time units would be half or cut by one third.
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I think the turret idea is a really good plan but had a few ideas on balance. For instance, working with the assumption that optical recognition tech is much better by the time the aliens invade, but not so much it is cheap (still processor intesive) we could give the turret three fire modes that would determine how many "reactions" that it gets. Motion mode would fire at anything in its arc of fire (you, civis, them) pretty fast reaction, lots of shots, IFF mode (not me) slightly less shots, slower reaction, and optical mode (only aliens) slowest reactions, one or two shots. That would really level out the use of the turret so that it was useful, but not gameplay defeating. Adding a limited arc of fire and fuzzy accuracy (ecm from aliens disrupts electronic systems) and I think this would be workable. I remember that scene in aliens in the maintance tunnel and can't help but thing how cool a pair of those set up would be.
Some of the other techs I was wanting to see were riot shields. These could go into the offhand for 1hand operation of pistols and the like, this way your troops would have high armor from the front and adding a new dimension of tactial play (think shield wall)
About the aircraft cannons, I'd suggested in the aircraft thread recently that the pilot should strafe the LZ if the dropship is armed and dead aliens could be found around it based on his/her skill, would that suffice for the dropship gun? They would also be able to see/spot some of the aliens so you had round one LOS, thus taking care of some battlefield intel. This could all be skill based for more depth.
As far as other techs, we need more gadgets for combat. Things like motion sensors, prox mines, alternate ordinace (gas/plasma/antimatter rockets/launcher grenades, incendary munitions for human weapons, remote cameras, flares, or some sort of spider grenade/mine would be cool. I can remember the brainsuckers from apoc being pretty cool when they'd activate and chase your team so this would be a nice addon for both sides.
Just a few thoughts on what I noticed was missing,
Guildenstern
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When the alien gets in to melee range I always use the microshotgun or SMG for a devastating effect.
I agree with you Sirp. :)
I just like the thought of impaling those alien bastards with something SHARP... even if guns etc.. are much
better weapons... i kinda like melee stuff ;)