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Topics - Bandobras

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16
Discussion / Why do aliens hate us?
« on: June 26, 2006, 12:03:48 pm »
The question of why aliens hate us is important for the storyline. Moreoever, the answer can be mostly independent of the storyline variant (see Design subforum). Keep in mind that the hate must be really huge if they experiment on live humans, slaughter whole cities, etc. so the reason must be convincing. Any ideas welcome!

17
Design / Bolter rifle specs
« on: June 24, 2006, 01:38:05 am »
I have looked closer at weapons_human.ufo and it seems only Rocket Launcher has different skill than in the Wiki. There is also one strange thing; the pistol single shot has higher vertical than horizontal spread (am I right?)

      spread   "2.8 4"

How is it possible that one shot suffers a recoil penalty?

Here is a proposal of the Bolter Rifle stats. Frankly I have no clue what some of the fields mean, but I tried my best. I assumed the ammo is twice as heavy as the assault rifle ammo and that supersonic speed results in again twice as much damage. I also assumed that the bolter rifle has recoil but much smaller than the assault rifle --- what physics has to say about that? I tried "burning" hitbody, since the projective is so fast it must burn its target, but the burning effect turned out to be too long. Overall I tried to adhere to the Wiki descriptions. Please criticize!

Code: [Select]

// =======================
// BOLTERRIFLE
// =======================
item bolterrifle
{
        name            "_Bolter Rifle"
        model           weapons/bolterrifle/bolterrifle
        weapon          true
        type            biggun
        category        3
        twohanded       true
        shape           "0 0 4 2"
        center          "8 0 0"
        scale           1.0
        ammo            15
        reload          13
        price           2800
        buytype         0
}

item bolterrifle_ammo
{
        name            "_Bolter Rifle Clip"
        model           weapons/bolterrifle/bolterrifle_clip
        type            ammo
        category        0
        shape           "0 0 1 1"
        center          "0 0 0"
        scale           1.0
        price           120
        buytype         0

        primary
        {
                name    "_Single Shot"
                skill   heavy
                projtl  bullet
                impact  bulletImpact
                hitbody blood
                firesnd weapons/laser.wav
                speed   0
                spread  "3 3"
                crouch  0.8
                range   800
                shots   1
                ammo    1
                time    14
                damage  "80 20"
                dmgtype normal
        }

        secondary
        {
                name    "_Burst"
                skill   heavy
                projtl  bullet
                impact  bulletImpact
                hitbody blood
                firesnd weapons/laser.wav
                speed   0
                spread  "4 5"
                crouch  0.6
                range   800
                shots   3
                ammo    3
                rof     2
                time    22
                damage  "80 20"
                dmgtype normal
        }
}

18
Design / weapons vs. skills
« on: June 23, 2006, 12:42:09 am »
I have browsed base/ufos/weapons_human.ufo and I wonder about some weapons and their related skills (unless I read it all wrong). I list them as "weapon (skill)". These are :

shotgun (close) and flamethrower (heavy)

rocket launcher (explosive) and grenade launcher (heavy)

Is it random or are the skills assigned so as to balance their relative usefulness? What about realism, especially with the second pair? Will descriptions match the skills, in particular are the rockets described as not heavy (the launcher itself is light, indeed) and the grenade launcher as heavy (why would it be?)?

How will the player distinguish weapon classes, when he assigns equipment to his soldiers? Especially with weapons that have different skills in different shooting modes? Isn't utter simplicity better here? For example, all weapons with every shot type having range at most x are (close), all single-handed weapons (e.g. grenades) with every shot type having explosive effect are (explosive), all with range bigger than y are (sniper), all with weight above z are (heavy), all the rest are (assault). Or something like that, but make sure the sets have empty intersections and that the relevant infor (e.g., weapon weight) is visible when equiping soldiers.

If its all thought out and not likely to change, I'm fine with it. I'm just trying to make sure and perhaps help by discussion...

19
Design / Storyline variant: artifact as the reason for invasion
« on: June 19, 2006, 05:56:06 pm »
Storyline variant: artifact as the reason for invasion. A summary of current ideas and problems (as I see them, obviously most ideas stolen:P).

General idea: the reason for alien invasion is an artifact hidden somewhere on Earth (possibly in parts, etc.).

Main advantages:
    Nonlinear plot when the reason for invasion is revealed.
    You can decide to help the aliens, with or against UN, greedy politicians, etc. and your missions would then involve search of the Earth, fights with Earth armies, with rogue aliens, plot-twists after you eventually find the thing, etc.

    By the time the player finds out about what's really going on, the aliens have already located the artifact, or even retrieved some of its parts. It also becomes clear that Earth is to be the test subject for the weapon, both to try it out and to take revenge on those pesky humans that got in the way so much. Ergo, the aliens REALLY don't care about us, yet we still struggle for survival.
    [/list]

    Different end-games.
      Do we take the artifact for ourselves, and use it to destroy the the alien mother-ship and defend ourselves against further alien aggression? Or do we try to destroy it? Is it even possible? But we could shoot it into the sun, where nobody's going to take it back. Would aliens then leave? Or maybe we build a spaceship and send the artifact to the alien home-world to nuke their asses and then the local Earth aliens get freaked out and flee?

      As for the Endgame, giving the alien the artifact results in a bad ending. Outsmarting the aliens (like sabotaging the artifact or sending a fake) results in a good ending. Blowing it up or getting rid of it results in a neutral ending. (what about ruling the universe?)
      [/list]

      It may explain some game-play mechanics, e.g. the small scale of the conflict (at least at the beginning).
        It explains why lots of alien scouts instead of outright total war.

        Perhaps the alien mission is only resupply or archeologic mission and they have to build the ad-hoc army on-site.
      The aliens did not expect an organized resistance. They arrived with a 'pacification' unit to calm the natives, they were not expecting full blown war. Hence they're better equipped, but are forced to deal with the situation by means alternative to straight out violence.

      They really don't care about Earth so they just sneak around and hope to stumble on the artifact without anybody noticing.
      [/list]
      [/list]

      Problems:
        What is it?
          an important natural resource depleted on their home-world (
      We've got some rare mineral that the aliens would like to mine. Unfortunately most of our cities happen to be situated on top of it.)

      a common Earth plant that happens to prolong the alien's lives

      a superb technological space-warfare weapon?

      a weapon of mass destruction, a planet killer? (personally BloodMagus finds this rather cliche. If used, needs to be done carefully with a lot of thought.)

      Earth is planet-weapon built on a border of some ancient empire

      a mystic fifth-dimension Egyptian god's miracle ankh of immortality? (We've got some wizbang item that the aliens want, that does really cool things.)

      Ancient Map - we're home to some intergalactic map. (cool!)

      What about a treasure hunt, though? Suppose we're actually dealing with a private army of some alien warlord who is out to find, for lack of a better term, the treasure of Captain Greenbeard, who has buried it on planet 3 of this star system, at the X. It'd be silly, but it'd allow us to put eyepatches on aliens! (Arrr!)
      [/list]

      If it's a portable weapon, who left it and when?
        humans of Atlantis, when they accidentally pushed the wrong button :)

        other aliens dropped it (a hundred or a thousand years ago) when fleeing from Antareans, which kill them and learn where to search for it

        other aliens, to let us defend ourselves (very long ago, this suggests this is not a very offensive weapon, e.g.
      Why aliens won't nuke earth? It is impossible, the artifacts protect earth from being nuked from space. This would explain why we are still alive after decades of cold war and doubtless many cases of pressing the wrong button on ballistic missile consoles. :) The artifact also has some other powers, but mostly defensive, they can be learnt progressively.)

      Antareans themselves dropped it long ago, using Earth as an arms storage (natural Earth resources also help in readying the weapons), now they need it for a conflict not far away.
      [/list]

      Why don't they just get it and go away?
        their enemies made Earth dangerous to Antareans so they slowly rebuild their survival kits for such an extreme environment (radiation or lack of it, etc.)

        artifact well guarded by some humans that know how to use it to some extent to deter small scouting missions (a "classified" project of KGB or some ancient conspiracy) so
      your mission is to locate them too, so there will pop up missions like: Aliens landed near of some house go and check out, maybe there is some "group member or hint there" and similar  

      it is in parts and well hidden, slave work or just lots of time and peace required

      the artifact parts are very powerful, they can't be transported right away or they auto-destruct or just destruct the transport craft, to transport them they need to fix them for space traveling

      Its location is perhaps recorded somewhere on earth, and that too needs to be located first. Or perhaps some destructible locating device exists. These points explain why the aliens didn't just nuke the planet from orbit if the artifact is indestructible.
      [/list]

      Why don't we just give it to them right away?
        we cannot find it, it is too well hidden

        not after what Antareans have done; the could have asked at the beginning, but they didn't trust us, so now, after Mumbai, it's too late, revenge time (but of course some politicians will try to argue)

        the artifact could be beneficial to us, so UN does not want to promise giving it away and aliens do not want to tell more about it, even when we finally promise, so that we do not find it for ourselves --- stalemate

      They're not interested in sharing. What ever they're after, they don't want us knowing about it. Hence why we can't help them find it. In fact they attempt to keep it secret as to what they're really up to. One of the goals in stopping the invasion would be discovering why its taking place. Then it becomes a race to see who can find the item first.
      [/list]

      Why haven't we found it before?
        the artifact is hidden deep under the Earth's surface, beyond the reach of archaeologists and miners (but then it could melt or be destroyed be tectonic forces)

        it is covered in carbon-made super-tough material looking like a rock and detected by instruments as a normal rock, so we would have to go over all Earth with pneumatic drills and break all rocks --- the ones that do not break are parts of the artifact

        we have already found it ages ago; it is what Sphinx (Mayan Pyramids, Great Wall, etc.) have inside them. But it sounds unbelievable or only an ancient conspiracy knows about it, so nobody searches right there interpreting all measurements as common anomalies for ancient ruins.

        floating in an under-ice lake (Vostok?)

        If the item was by chance indestructible, it would have to be rather small and not possible to locate by various scans, hence making it impossible to find it in a planet full of rubble.
        [/list]

        How did it survive climatic/tectonic/etc. processes for so long?
          What it certainly is is indestructible, because it couldn't have survived the erosion of ages any other way.

          The item (or person) that the aliens seek is not indestructible, else they'd have just nuked earth from orbit and search through the rubble. Its capable of resisting the effects of time, but not a close proximity nuclear blast.

          Perhaps it wasn't so long?

          Don't rocks on the Earth surface in the equatorial areas survive very well for ages, e.g. rocks on Sahara? Also, choose middle areas of tectonic plates so that they do not get swiped too deep and melted. Even better, place the artifact pieces a bit under granite or basalt covers, so that when the terrain is submerged the artifact is not moved by water.

          They come from time to time and repair any cracks in the basalt storage chambers.
          [/list]

          Wouldn't the player be let down that all that fight was for nothing, since aliens are not really interested in us only in the artifact?
            I'm a hero all the way, I just stop fighting for Earth that aliens do not really care about, and start fighting for the artifact, against aliens, or greedy politicians, or whatever. These are real turns in plot that indeed show your heroism was laughable, but empower you to become a mature hero at last. I don't think I would quit playing at that moment.

            The fight was not for nothing since we were really attacked, even if by accident, and the result of the fight is a nicely equipped and trained mini-army ready seize control of the artifact and rule the universe. Whoa!


          Why do they build bases and kidnap humans or animals?
            Do they? As for bases, they need some comfort when searching, preparing the artifact pieces for transport, etc. Not to mention fending off those pesky humans or infiltrating nations to get help in the search.


          [/list]

          Any additions, thoughts, preferences?

          20
          Design / Storyline variant: Deceitful aliens backstory
          « on: June 18, 2006, 05:24:30 am »
          Storyline variant: Deceitful aliens backstory.

          Several ideas by others glued together by me (thanks folks). A small backstory variant, just to give some support for tech-tree and tactical missions. I think we should leave the rest for fan-fiction. ;)

          Reason for Invasion

          Unknown. Probably warmongery. Also no knowledge about aliens monitoring earth earlier or if they even knew they will find life on this planet. They are complete mystery even after they are defeated...

          But I also like the other ideas for Reason for Invasion:
          --- Searching for some artifact (There's something on earth that they want)
          --- Hunting someone (there's an alien on earth that these aliens want to capture alive)
          Both explain why aliens do not just nuke Earth, especially the first one. Moreover, they would like to use humans as the workforce for the search.

          Anyway, aliens would like to terrorize humanity and use them as slaves, rather than fight a regular war with humans and then fight a prolonged guerilla war or be forced to nuke Earth. They are intelligent enough to know that diplomacy is much cheaper than war, especially if you have a huge army as a diplomatic argument. However, they are used to rather crude, brute-force diplomacy.

          Phalanx Birth

          What aliens sent to Earth is a standard multi-purpose reconessaince/diplomacy/annexation force. Powerful enough to conquer Earth, but slow to prepare for full-scale war. Reinforcements are impossible, because of the distance to their homeworld.

          Aliens are unlucky that the approach of their fleet is caught by Earth telescopes several years before they arrive. Phalanx is established by the UN, just in case, because attempts to communicate with the approaching fleet are unsuccessful (for whatever reason, ideas welcome). There is still no base for Phalanx, only organization structure, initial staff, money, and the chief (you). The organization is not secret, but its description is not focused on fighting aliens, so as not to offend them, but rather on research on aliens, doing customs duty service, guarding Earth borders, etc.

          After the aliens arrive, they are surprised that humans are aware of their arrival. They hoped to hide and prepare for several years and attack/terrorize/intimidate only after they are ready. Different species are waking from cryogenic sleep with different speed. They have to mine Earth, other planets, moons "in order to amass the materials necessary to increase their robotic army", they are slowly adapting to Earth conditions, such as gravity, level of radioactivity, Solar wind, etc. So right now they can only send limited forces to fight, or hire humans to fight for them.

          Therefore their plan is to hold off the invasion, lie about their goals, at the same time establishing foothold on earth, learning about human weaknesses and prepearing for the war. Then they try to terrorize some nations and infiltrate them, while all the time lying about their intentions. "So the aliens try to suppress the humans by winning a psychological victory". For this the aliens have two operation bodies --- the official one declaring peace and blaming incidents on humans or rogue aliens, and the other secret alien forces, experimenting on Earth and humans, infiltrating, terrorizing, and eventually, crushing humans ("liberating them").

          So this is a war between the secret service of Aliens and the non-secret UN-governed Phalanx, bound by political restrictions and public opinion reactions. Aliens lie to the very end. "On the other hand we have the Alien "Elite Forces", trying to implement a secret agenda assigned to them by their leaders. Thus we avoid a setting in which a big war between worlds is going on." Big wars are boring when you participate in them on the tactical level (hundreds of thousands of missions would be required and each single mission would be quite unimportant in itself).

          Phalanx Duties

          "As for Phalanx itself, if it was up against such a potentially overwhelming enemy, it seems like its goal wouldn't be so much as to defeat the enemy, but to find out how to beat the enemy (different focus)." However, humans armies are not what they were before, so Phalanx even gradually becomes important militarily and its experiences with aliens are invaluable for reorganization of rebuilding armies. Governments prefer to send Phalanx to deal with aliens so that civilian casualties are lower than when a regular army waltzes into a city, so that more is learned about aliens and so that soldiers are not demoralized/bribed/infected by aliens. Army is too thin to guard all of Earth, so it is concentrated on guarding dams, chemical factories, government seats, etc. Cities are mostly undefended. The army sometimes does an independent action (a big army unit happens to be close to ufo landing) and the player is informed about it. But these are exceptions.

          However, the army can always be called in, though they are usually too late so save civilians and the aliens are often gone. The calling of regular army can be represented by the "auto" feature of tactical missions --- they help Phalanx, so the mission will usually be won, even if the player is a newbie and would have trouble winning the mission alone. OTOH, the number of artifacts recovered and civilians saved would usually be lower than what an experienced player could achieve --- army is not as subtle as Phalanx and it arrives late. It would be nice if the army could be called also for hunting the last remaining alien on a big map --- a button "call the army" that concludes the battle automatically, with percent of additional civilian casualties and destroyed alien artifacts based on the number of remaining aliens.

          Complications

          Peacemongering (somebody wants to do it diplomatically) --- Phalanx is not secret service and aliens lie a lot, so there will be a lot of trouble, especially at the beginning (this is represented by "gloves off", by the counter-identification trick when player is angry at stupid politicians that believe in scientific cooperation with aliens, etc.).

          I think a nice and important thing is to fool player as to the alien strength throughout the game. I propose the following.

          At the beginning aliens are surprised, weak and afraid, but try to make themselves appear more aggressive and powerful, hence Mumbai "incident" caused by "misunderstanding" and "human overreaction", just after aliens' proposal to take over and improve Earth power plants and space programmes was rejected. At this stage the player should think the aliens are fools to reveal their power and ruthlessness, but the player is a fool himself in believing in the brute force of the aliens. :)

          In the mid-game the aliens are already considered a force to be reckoned with and quick to anger, but they are still preparing for the total war and still trying infiltration, etc. so they do not attack frontally and do not reveal the scale of their mounting power, just sampling and experimenting. At this point the player should begin to suspect he can defeat aliens on earth, that they are only bluffing, terrorizing, but they can be overcome. :)

          Finally, the aliens launch the offensive and the player should be totally depressed and exactly at this point the hints at the endgame solution should become too obvious for him to miss.

          ENDGAME

          At the end, after the preparations for war are finished, aliens are too powerful to beat on Earth, they bases flourish, nations drop out, so the player has to attack the alien fleet in the "good old Millennium-Falcon-Blows-Up-The-Death-Star-In-The-Nick-Of-Time last gambit" style.

          Addendum

          Below is an interesting subplot by BloodMagus that is generally compatible with my backstory. There can surely be alternative or additional subplots that can be woven in, but it is important to have the major parts done first.

          "A rather ingenious plot I think would be for the Phalanx to start out as a private committee formed by an Anonymous Benefactor. The player is the committee's leader. You're given goals by the benefactor, and get bonuses for completing them. Eventually you'd be come a UN sanctioned organization. Before that, you'd have the option of convince countries to privately fund you.
          You could work some interesting ideas, such as having the first goal of the phalanx being to PROVE the existence of aliens & UFO by capturing one. Having the UN explode in you face after finding out what you'd be doing, and my favourite:
          The anonymous benefactor being some intelligent alien that the Antareans are after and we were setup to protect him (unbeknownst to us)."

          21
          Discussion / Time to announce 2.0 RC2?
          « on: June 17, 2006, 03:35:19 pm »
          Don't you think it is time to announce 2.0 RC2 on

          http://www.happypenguin.org/

          and

          http://sourceforge.net/news

          so that people start testing? Or is there enough bug reports for now and we would rather need more coders and not more beta-testers? So perhaps propose UFO AI for the GOTM help project at happypenguin.org?

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