UFO:Alien Invasion

Development => Artwork => Topic started by: Flying Steel on June 22, 2010, 02:31:29 am

Title: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 22, 2010, 02:31:29 am
The old rocket launcher model looks somewhat unwieldy for a short ranged tactical launcher loaded and fired by just one man (as opposed to a team of two, which is usually the case) and maybe a bit outdated as well. So I started on a new one, based loosely on a few modern day systems from real life.

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example.png)

So what do you think, good, bad?

If approved, I'll continue on to the UV/textures/LoD work for it. I usually release my work under the GPL.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Hertzila on June 22, 2010, 04:04:08 am
The model itself looks good (pretty much like Javelin) but I think you should take a more RPG-y (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl02-e.htm) look (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl04-e.htm) or some (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl26-e.htm) other (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl10-e.htm) reloadable (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl33-e.htm) rocket launcher as an inspiration. Also yours looks more like it should work like Javelin, ie. fire a missile high up where it will then turn and hit a tank from above. It also seems to lack any clear places where to grab from (pistol grips and such).

Hopefully I didn't ruin your enthusiasm already...
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 22, 2010, 05:41:29 am
It's a good model, but as Hertzila said, it doesn't really fit either the current writeup or the general concept and art of our rocket launcher (for example, the straight-line shooting particle). We want a new model for the rocket launcher, but it has to be more like an advanced recoilless rifle than a guided weapon.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 22, 2010, 06:41:51 am
So how do you want the new model to look differently from the current one? And are there any specific real world weapons you'd like the new version to be based on?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Hertzila on June 22, 2010, 01:35:55 pm
Well, if it's a multipurpose recoilless rifle the devs want, the Swedish Carl Gustaf (http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl10-e.htm) might be a good place to start.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 22, 2010, 05:04:43 pm
Alright then, a 120mm version of a carl gustav. Are there any more design points we want to add to this?

Winter what did you mean by an advanced recoiless rifle? Advanced as in having a range finder instead of a simple scope or iron sights, maybe?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 23, 2010, 05:20:29 am
Alright then, a 120mm version of a carl gustav. Are there any more design points we want to add to this?

It doesn't have to be 120mm -- that's just a figure we chose due to the ridiculous size of the current launcher.


Quote
Winter what did you mean by an advanced recoiless rifle? Advanced as in having a range finder instead of a simple scope or iron sights, maybe?

Yes, that sort of thing is exactly what I mean.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 23, 2010, 09:25:05 pm
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example2.png)

How's this?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Hertzila on June 23, 2010, 10:09:35 pm
Looks rather fine. The back "cone" might be a little too abrupt and steep and it's a little hard to comment details without texture but overall, looks good IMO.

I'd suggest waiting for Winter or some other dev to confirm that it's okay.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 23, 2010, 10:29:58 pm
Looks rather fine. The back "cone" might be a little too abrupt and steep and it's a little hard to comment details without texture but overall, looks good IMO.

I'd suggest waiting for Winter or some other dev to confirm that it's okay.

That can certainly be done, but it might then look like a near clone of the carl gustav, which is why I used a tail cone more like that of the AT4. Do you have a preference on this, Winter?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 24, 2010, 06:15:58 pm
I think the Carl Gustav is an awesome-looking weapon, and if our launcher resembles it, that's totally fine with me. ;)

I'd even be happy to change the writeup to name it as a descendant of the original Carl Gustav.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 25, 2010, 06:22:13 am
Normal Mapping:

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example3.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 25, 2010, 09:36:05 am
Niiiice work.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on June 25, 2010, 04:49:35 pm
good stuff  ;D
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 25, 2010, 07:20:21 pm
Thanks!

So what kind of paint job do we want on this thing? A cool glossy black? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_20th_Infantry_Regiment_man_Carl_Gustav_at_training_exericse.jpg) Or just a boring olive drab green? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_SOF_M3_Carl_Gustav.jpg)

Phalanx operates in every environment, so camouflage colorations are probably more or less irrelevant.





Finally, we need think about lighting for this model/textures. You folks have shaders now. While you're legacy models have faked static lighting painted (or baked) into their diffuse textures.

If the model is still going to be lit by ambient lighting on your maps, come version 2.4, then you would need the lighting baked into the diffuse texture for this model.

If your battlescape environment(s) will have realtime lighting though, in version 2.4, then you probably don't want fake lighting in your diffuse texture. Because you want your normal, specular and roughness maps to be doing all the reflection from those realtime lights, dynamically.

So how do you want me to do this?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on June 25, 2010, 07:40:20 pm
I personally like to bake an ambient occlusion map for the model no matter what, makes for a good base for textures but doesnt stand out too much.


Not gonna comment on color stuf, I dont know :P
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on June 25, 2010, 07:49:08 pm
Looks really cool. The old rocket-launcher has a rather ugly texture. I can imagine this one looking much better in-game.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on June 25, 2010, 08:09:06 pm
Regarding the textures & our existing models:

Our current weapon (& other) models are all .md2 files.

Our current weapons models have just their (mostly painted) textures applied. Afaik none of them has even a normalmap nor do they have roughness or specularity maps (yet), but many of the currently used models already have glowmaps.

So if you want to help us out with any of those or want to exchange any of the models I suggest you extract base/models.pk3 (a simple zip) & have a look @ the models/weapons folder to see where work has to be done for yourself.

Imho we do not need too much detail for the weapons, but afaik the engine even supports different model LODs, so you could provide several (afair up to 3) .md2s for the weapons also if you like.

Again, great job, thanx a lot for helping, 'Flying Steel' !
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Hertzila on June 26, 2010, 02:05:04 am
Regarding the color/pattern, one neat choice would be to change it according to what the soldier wears (but I'm fairly sure the code doesn't support that).

I don't know if my opinion will carry any weight but I think a non-reflective black would be the best choice. Barring that, the glossy black.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 26, 2010, 07:39:14 am
@Origin

Indeed, AO bakes are very useful. You can use them for high quality self shadowing, to see where unconnected geometry intersects in UV space, and for scorch or grit effects. I just finished a final quality AO bake for this model earlier today.

Out of curiosity, what's your strategy distributing your AO bakes across the diffuse and specular textures?


@MCR

Thanks. I think I'll look for more direction from the design folks directly though when it comes to replacing more of the legacy weapons' graphics, to cut through some of the red tape of the approval process.

As for levels of detail, this model is only 500 tris, which is the max the wiki said weapons should be, and LoD's don't make sense for a model that will at most add 16,000 tris to a battlescape scene, which is nothing. So the polycount for weapons would need to be raised for there to be any sense in making LoDs, imo.


@Hertzilla

My guess is dynamic camo on weapons probably isn't supported either.

A non-reflective, matte look would basically make the normal, specular and roughness maps pointless. It could be done, but it wouldn't enhance the visual quality over the model it is replacing. Plus, looking at some real world references, it wouldn't be any more accurate or realistic, I don't think.

But if there is no disagreement put forward, I think I'll go with your second choice of glossy black. :)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on June 26, 2010, 02:50:14 pm
@Flying Steel

i usually start my textures with a base color and then create a layer for the AO and put it on multiply, then just paint on top of that.


Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 26, 2010, 11:25:50 pm
Normal, Diffuse and Specular Mapping:

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example4.png)

Not sure what's supposed to be done with the 'roughness' map, only a very vague idea.

So what do you say devs, is this a wrap?
What formats do you want this turned in as?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 27, 2010, 12:32:37 pm
Normal, Diffuse and Specular Mapping:

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example4.png)

Not sure what's supposed to be done with the 'roughness' map, only a very vague idea.

So what do you say devs, is this a wrap?
What formats do you want this turned in as?

It's really shaping up, but is there any possibility of adding more texture greebling or just a few more details? A sticker or two, or even some sudged writing, to break up the black.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: bayo on June 27, 2010, 08:30:13 pm
When this weapon is ready, if someone can custom the "stand2" actor animation for this weapon, it will be very helpfull.
For example creating "stand2_nameoftheweapon", for an only one body model. With that, it will help to implement better preview in the UI.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: vedrit on June 28, 2010, 02:39:56 am
when the new characters are ready, then a position will be made for weapons such as this
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 28, 2010, 06:54:48 am
It's really shaping up, but is there any possibility of adding more texture greebling or just a few more details? A sticker or two, or even some sudged writing, to break up the black.

Like this? (Also I scuffed up the paint job a bit.)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example5.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 28, 2010, 12:10:45 pm
Like this? (Also I scuffed up the paint job a bit.)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example5.png)

Fantastic. Just gives it a little bit more character.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: vedrit on June 28, 2010, 03:18:05 pm
heh "Warning: Do not look into the barrel when firing." or "Warning: Do not place limb in, or over, opening of barrel."
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Hertzila on June 28, 2010, 04:10:45 pm
Looking great! The black texture is fantastic IMO and the text is a nice detail.
Also, unless that second text is this already, you could print/engrave the client's/supposed manufacturer's and weapon's name onto the barrel, either with red or plain steel color (if possible you should engrave it, as they are usually done that way so they won't wear out).

heh "Warning: Do not look into the barrel when firing." or "Warning: Do not place limb in, or over, opening of barrel."

While funny when you first think about it, they might very well be something like that. I don't exactly remember where I heard his but doesn't the LAW rocket launcher have "idiotproof" instructions printed on it on how to aim and fire it, with relative safety? LAW is disposable though, so it might not count for our future CG.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 28, 2010, 08:15:55 pm
While funny when you first think about it, they might very well be something like that. I don't exactly remember where I heard his but doesn't the LAW rocket launcher have "idiotproof" instructions printed on it on how to aim and fire it, with relative safety?

I know american claymore mines have 'This side towards you' and 'This side towards enemy' printed on them.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: vedrit on June 28, 2010, 09:26:00 pm
I know american claymore mines have 'This side towards you' and 'This side towards enemy' printed on them.

Regards,
Winter
Partly why I said it. I saw a warning label on a chainsaw that said "Do not attempt to stop chain with hands or genitelia"
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Mattn on June 28, 2010, 09:30:26 pm
please upload the model sources - what would be the license you release your work under?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 29, 2010, 05:42:01 am
There's quite a few instructions and warning labels on it now, though mostly too small to be legible, at in-game texture resolution. The "this side towards enemy" is used on real life US military claymore mines, but it was also painted on the side of the Halo "Jackhammer" rocket launcher, as a tip of the hat to the famous claymore mine.

@ Mattn

Which directory do you what the sources uploaded to. I will release this under the GPL (Version 3 I guess).

@ Winter

How's this? (The scuffs weren't set correctly last version, now I have raised their specular to the correct level.)

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example6.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 29, 2010, 06:21:16 am
Honestly, I think that's actually tarted up a bit too much now. :p  Especially the 'we come in peace', Mattn says we can't have clearly-legible text on items, and I don't think it should show up on every single launcher in the game anyway.

I'm not sure about the red all around the exhaust either. I think a few yellow arrows, maybe 4 in total, would do the job far better than the red arrows and circle.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Hertzila on June 29, 2010, 01:55:07 pm
While, as said, the "we come in peace" is a bit too much, the other, smaller white text just behind the aiming module looks good IMO.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 29, 2010, 05:35:18 pm
Honestly, I think that's actually tarted up a bit too much now. :p  Especially the 'we come in peace', Mattn says we can't have clearly-legible text on items, and I don't think it should show up on every single launcher in the game anyway.

I'm not sure about the red all around the exhaust either. I think a few yellow arrows, maybe 4 in total, would do the job far better than the red arrows and circle.

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example7.png)

Is this what you mean?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Mattn on June 29, 2010, 07:00:41 pm
Which directory do you what the sources uploaded to. I will release this under the GPL (Version 3 I guess).

i'm not sure - did i gave you svn write access already? otherwise please send via mail or upload to rapidshare or some other hoster. if you plan to make more models, you should give me your sourceforge.net account (if not yet done)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 29, 2010, 08:50:03 pm
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example7.png)

Is this what you mean?

Good stuff. I'll just be difficult and ask for one final thing -- can you make the red text towards the back white instead?

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 29, 2010, 10:31:25 pm
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_launcher_example8.png)

So Winter, why don't you give me all the specifics of how you want to have look, the model/textures for each rocket type this thing can shoot.

Think about the shapes of the warheads, whether the rockets have stabilizer fins (those fired from true recoilless rifles, do not, the rifling in the barrel provides the spin/stabilization), etc.

Think about the paint jobs that might help differentiate them, bright color coding or just a single letter code (like "H" for high explosive rounds), etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MSPO2007-40.jpg
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on June 30, 2010, 11:02:49 am
It rocks ! Very good work.

& it will be our first weapon using a normalmap ;)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on June 30, 2010, 11:26:40 am
Colour coding for different warheads, definitely. We want the player to be able to see exactly which kind of warhead is which without referring to text.

So far we've got three types of rounds planned:

High Explosive -- Orange and black pattern.
InCendiary -- Red and black pattern.
Antimatter Explosive -- Purple and orange pattern.

Big stripe of the primary colour, small stripe of the secondary colour, big stripe, small stripe, big stripe. Any lettering is up to you.

As for the shape, it depends on whether we're making this a rifle or a smoothbore recoilless gun. In this case I think it would make more sense as a smoothbore, because militaries in this setting wouldn't be using much unguided ordnance before the invasion and you need fins for guidance. I also like the idea of this relatively new gun loaded with antiquated ordnance.

So, would you be able to create a non-rifled recoilless shell with retracting fins? Control surfaces on the fins aren't necessary depending on the backstory.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on June 30, 2010, 11:58:28 am
This will actually be our first weapon with a normalmap ;)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on June 30, 2010, 08:47:45 pm
@ Mattn

Sorry, missed your post before. I guess I'll host the files on my divshare account then, as soon as I'm finished with the rocket ammo model/textures.

@ MCR

Every weapon system comes with a complimentary normal map when you buy from Flying Steel Arms. ;)

@ Winter

Alright so what do you think of these possibilities as far as the shape of the rockets go (slits for the fins to retract into will be visible in the textures).

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/rocket_example.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on July 01, 2010, 01:06:18 am
I like the one on the right more, but neither shape is right. In a recoilless cartridge, the bottom two thirds of its length are solely propellant while the top third is the actual shell. The fins would have to be on the shell to work, since the propellant is used up during firing.

Check this image out for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Recoilless_Rifle.png

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on July 01, 2010, 05:31:38 am
I like the one on the right more, but neither shape is right. In a recoilless cartridge, the bottom two thirds of its length are solely propellant while the top third is the actual shell. The fins would have to be on the shell to work, since the propellant is used up during firing.

Check this image out for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Recoilless_Rifle.png

Okay so to be clear, you are talking about a weapon system that is purely a gun, there is no rocket motor, just a fin stabilized round that travels down range out of inertia, right? What was confusing me then was the trail of smoke the current 'missile launcher' produces as its projectile flys through the air; I guess you intend to remove that effect in the future.

The question is then, should this model have both the cartridge intact and the fins deployed (which would probably never be the case both at once) or just one of the two?

Cartridge intact, fins retracted makes more sense for stored ammo.

Cartridge gone, fins out makes more sense for the weapon in flight on the battlescape.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on July 01, 2010, 02:16:29 pm
Okay so to be clear, you are talking about a weapon system that is purely a gun, there is no rocket motor, just a fin stabilized round that travels down range out of inertia, right? What was confusing me then was the trail of smoke the current 'missile launcher' produces as its projectile flys through the air; I guess you intend to remove that effect in the future.

Hm, that is a point, but I think we're just going to have to live with it for now. We don't really have anybody working on new particles, or (as far as I'm aware) experienced in creating particles. In the future we might come up with some guided, rocket-propelled rounds with better accuracy to 'update' the launcher with alien tech to get the current particle accurate again.


Quote
The question is then, should this model have both the cartridge intact and the fins deployed (which would probably never be the case both at once) or just one of the two?

Cartridge intact, fins retracted makes more sense for stored ammo.

Cartridge gone, fins out makes more sense for the weapon in flight on the battlescape.

My thinking was, the fins are spring-loaded and retract when being stored. Having the fins out helps increase the visual effect. However, I suppose that practically the fins would be locked inside -- perhaps even hidden inside the cartridge -- until the shell leaves the barrel. That's fine with me.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on July 01, 2010, 06:32:58 pm
My thinking was, the fins are spring-loaded and retract when being stored. Having the fins out helps increase the visual effect. However, I suppose that practically the fins would be locked inside -- perhaps even hidden inside the cartridge -- until the shell leaves the barrel. That's fine with me.

So then will this work--

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/ammo_example.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on July 01, 2010, 06:44:21 pm
So then will this work--

Sure, as long as there's a 'seam' painted or engraved onto the cartridge to show where the propellant stops and the shell begins.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on July 02, 2010, 02:46:42 am
Okay so how's this--

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/ammo_example2.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Mattn on July 02, 2010, 10:00:45 am
i like them - if that counts ;)

did you upload your source files somewhere already and i've missed that?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on July 02, 2010, 10:48:52 am
Okay so how's this--

Not bad, but can you make the coloured stripes contiguous? That is, one solid block of colour-coding without bare metal in between the stripes.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on July 02, 2010, 07:14:56 pm
@ Mattn

Thanks, and yes it does count. :)

I'll upload everything as soon as final approval is given on the ammo. Looks like it will be 11mb including source files, is that not too much?

BTW, I'm not sure what to do about your 'roughness' map though; I don't really know how your engine will interpret it.

@ Winter

Do you think this is good to go then--

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/ammo_example3.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Mattn on July 02, 2010, 09:56:59 pm
I'll upload everything as soon as final approval is given on the ammo. Looks like it will be 11mb including source files, is that not too much?

no, that is not too much - it's oik for data_source
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on July 02, 2010, 11:16:49 pm
@ Winter

Do you think this is good to go then--

Sure, looks good to me. Unless you're feeling very generous and want to put some kind of border on the top and bottom of the colour code so it blends in a little better with the rest of the shell?

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on July 03, 2010, 01:06:32 am
How's this?

(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/Deus_Ars/Misc/ammo_example4.png)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Winter on July 03, 2010, 01:22:22 am
How's this?

Good for me.

Regards,
Winter
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on July 03, 2010, 02:20:39 am
Alright then, here's the Source Files (http://www.divshare.com/download/11877271-203).

The gun and shell models are in different layers of the same blend file. I created a tentative roughness "map" (only 1x1 pixel) for each model which basically just sets material settings to something that I think should look similar to the renderings I've posted throughout this thread, but I really don't know.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Mattn on July 03, 2010, 09:26:56 am
applied it to data_source - thanks a lot

can you also export the md2 models?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: H-Hour on July 03, 2010, 12:12:38 pm
Jumping in late here. It looks great, especially with the dirtied texture. One thing I might recommend would be to use slightly less bright reds/yellows/purples. Increasing the grey in the color just a bit can help make them settle into the overall scene a little more smoothly.

But that's not really something you need to revisit on this launcher. Just something to think about in the future. Or disagree with. ;)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on July 03, 2010, 05:07:15 pm
@ Mattn

Sure, but do you have a particular scale you'd want the gun to be before I converted it to an in game format? Like how many units long should this thing be?

@ H-Hour

The same issue occurred to me, mostly with the antimatter one, but the thing is I am not sure how and where these will appear in game. So the color saturation might be important for making them distinguishable at a distance in low light for example. Or it could still be too much.

Desaturation is really simple though, you can apply it to the whole unlayered diffuse textures and it will only effect the painted areas (the metal parts have no color anyway). It's just a matter of knowing how far to adjust it for the setting.

The same goes for the Roughness map.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: H-Hour on July 03, 2010, 06:09:24 pm
I am not sure how and where these will appear in game. So the color saturation might be important for making them distinguishable at a distance in low light for example. Or it could still be too much.

I definitely think the saturation should stay the same for the ammo. The differentiation will be useful. You'll have to look at the launcher in-game to decide whether to adjust the diffuse texture, since I always notice that things come out looking slightly different there.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on September 11, 2010, 07:40:41 pm
Why has noone integrated this great new models in-game ?  ::)

Just tested latest git version & still we have the old (ugly) rocket launcher there.
Could someone with some md2 weapon knowledge & write access please integrate this new model ?

I think this would also be a motivation for Flying Steel to continue contributing new models, but maybe I'm wrong !!!
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on September 11, 2010, 11:04:45 pm
I can do it if i get the 3d files in obj format.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on September 12, 2010, 09:24:34 am
The source file of the rocket launcher is a Blender (.blend) file. I did not find the 3d file for the ammo though.

All the files are in data_source/models/flyingsteel or here: http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=5013.msg40712#msg40712.

It would be great if you could look @ that issue. Replacing the old launcher would be a first step, we can take care of the ammo later.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: bayo on September 12, 2010, 11:33:40 am
Another thing, because you also working on animation, if you can create a "stand_nameofthisweapon" animation for the actor and this weapon it can be very usefull. The engine do not support it (or dont care about that animation name), but i would like to work on that aspect. Other big gun can need custom anim, but this one is the biggest :-)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on September 20, 2010, 08:15:48 pm
Okay here is the model in obj format (attached to this post).


@MCR

Actually all the source models are in the one blend file, but on different layers. Even the unfinished guided missile launcher.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on September 20, 2010, 10:00:12 pm
Thanks. Getting it done tomorrow :)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on September 20, 2010, 10:09:28 pm
Cool, I very much appreciate it.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on September 22, 2010, 10:58:59 pm
Should work, though I think the md2's still need to be compiled for correct lighting. (textures might be too bright after this, they were really dark when I tested so i upped brightness 25% for all diffuse textures.)
Edited textures a little to make them stand out more from afar, and I havent tested the normals or specular maps in game, since they dont seem to work for me :(

All textures are 512x512 for now, though ammo probably only need 256.

structure and model names set up to replace the old rpg for now.

Would appreciate if someone with working normal maps could post some ingame shots :)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: bayo on September 23, 2010, 10:38:59 am
Side note: you can work with PNG; is the exporter generate this TGA files? or another constaints?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on September 23, 2010, 11:48:03 am
I used tga because i cant save pngs with an alpha channel, wich is needed for specular maps.
Feel free to convert them to png's though, I didnt save alpha channels so just wasting space right now :P
I will try to keep files that dont need alpha channels as png in the future.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: bayo on September 23, 2010, 03:23:23 pm
PNG support alpha chanel (as level of transparency) if you dont use indexed color (that's for example the big difference between GIF and PNG). If you start a new document with a full transparent background, you should have it by default, else there is option to add it (at least i see it in Gimp and Photoshop).

Anyway it is not very important, i only ask it to know if it is a exporter output (then there is way to fix it).
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on September 23, 2010, 04:47:50 pm
Yea its not a exporter problem or anything :)
Is there a way to manipulate the transparency channel in a png seperately?, I dont see how its possible to work with it, exept for ...transparency related stuff :P
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Hertzila on September 23, 2010, 06:12:30 pm
At least in Gimp you can transfer the alpha channel into a seperate mask, which you can then modify directly.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: bayo on September 23, 2010, 06:26:36 pm
With Photoshop u have a channel panel, u can uncheck R, G, B and select Alpha. Then u can paint/paste content (http://img.colorps.us/colorps/100811/canales.jpg). Or unselect Alpha to not display transparent layer.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on September 23, 2010, 09:46:48 pm
I cant save alpha channel on pngs, only transparency, and I cant edit that seperately like a alpha channel

I can create a alpha channel for a image in photoshop, but when saving as png it wont work for the transparency, it will be discarded.
There is no option for saving with alpha.

ps cs2 btw
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: H-Hour on September 23, 2010, 10:03:25 pm
Origin, I've found with ps cs2 that I need to not use the Save for Web feature. Just a regular save. However, I've found GIMP easier and it also creates smaller PNG files, so I usually just save it as a PSD when I'm done in photoshop, open it in GIMP and then save as PNG. I'm sure there's a way to optimize better in photoshop and preserve the alpha layer, I just haven't found it.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Origin on September 23, 2010, 11:36:52 pm
Ah you are right, works fine in gimp ;D thanks m8
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on September 24, 2010, 04:36:05 pm
Should work, though I think the md2's still need to be compiled for correct lighting. (textures might be too bright after this, they were really dark when I tested so i upped brightness 25% for all diffuse textures.)
Edited textures a little to make them stand out more from afar, and I havent tested the normals or specular maps in game, since they dont seem to work for me :(

Quite a lot of the brightness comes from the specular textures, so if they aren't functional the models will look very dark in game. But if they are working, and the specular reflections are not set too sharp (that is very bright pinpoint highlights = bad) then everything should look good. Putting aside the day/night lighting shift, at least.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 07, 2010, 10:21:06 pm
Have tested the new launcher in-game on ATI (no normalmaps & specularity maps enabled).

Looks VERY GOOD !  8) 8) 8)

If someone wants to test it: With latest git master version you just have to change line 1208 & 1229 of weapons.ufo from weapons/rpg to weapons/rpg2.

The glowmap should be edited a little bit though because the visor is too bright.

Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 07, 2010, 10:37:30 pm
ACTION  ;D
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: H-Hour on December 07, 2010, 10:58:21 pm
Do we have source for that, or is Flying Tree still around? It looks good, but it hangs over the weapon slot in the UI box. Not sure if that's something that needs to be changed in the model or the UI code, or what. The size looks fine on the soldier's shoulder.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 07, 2010, 11:01:15 pm
Yeah, I noticed that problem also, but I do not think that this should prevent the new launcher from being used in-game...

I am not sure where this problem comes from.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 07, 2010, 11:03:05 pm
Do we have source for that, or is Flying Tree still around? It looks good, but it hangs over the weapon slot in the UI box. Not sure if that's something that needs to be changed in the model or the UI code, or what. The size looks fine on the soldier's shoulder.

His nick is 'Flying Steel' & he has posted something today  ;)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 07, 2010, 11:08:48 pm
I think we should commit the change to weapons_human.ufo, the ui-frame stuff or model can be changed later, what do you think ?
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: H-Hour on December 07, 2010, 11:29:13 pm
DerTee, DerTree, Flying Steel, I am all mixed up. I agree, please commit it. A fine piece of work.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 07, 2010, 11:54:38 pm
Done.

Thanks again to all folks involved. Finally we have a good-looking rpg in-game.  8)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Mattn on December 08, 2010, 09:11:45 am
this is in the scripts - the center value - please correct it before commit the change
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 08, 2010, 09:58:59 am
Done, but I had to change the scale also. I hope everything's fine now.
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on December 08, 2010, 06:40:10 pm

Thanks everybody, I really appreciate all the good work in getting this thing in game. ;D


Do we have source for that, or is Flying Tree still around?

Source files are over here if you want them still: Sources (http://www.divshare.com/download/11877271-203)
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: MCR on December 08, 2010, 07:06:48 pm
Thanx a lot for your great work. I hope this motivates you 'cause I would like to see more of your stuff in-game  ;)

I really like the new launcher although I have not even seen it showing its full beauty, 'cause specular- & normalmapping does not work on ATI hardware @ the moment...

Please make more great models for UFO:AI, players & developers appreciate your input...
Title: Re: New Rocket Launcher
Post by: Flying Steel on December 08, 2010, 07:53:08 pm
It is indeed motivating. I have much to do right now for another free game, but I'll try to send stuff this way in the future. :)