UFO:Alien Invasion
Technical support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: scamp on April 22, 2009, 03:29:55 pm
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It would be nice if there was a way to research ( about half the game ) a personal radar that would be able to track aliens at say, 50 meters radius. I know in Xcom this device was available and I used it to track down that last hiding alien that just kept running away. The device would work better if your character has more Mind points, so perhaps a standard range of 20 squares + mind / 4 ? That means if you character has 60 mind ( that's quite a lot ) it would be able to track aliens at 40 squares away. Ofcourse, equipping and removing the tracking device costs ALL your TU's , so you won't have time to track, then shoot.
This will make available an extra 'type' of character : Someone with high Mind who tracks down aliens. Most seal teams have a team-member that specializes in tracking ennemies so this is not like an absurd thing to implement, it would only add to the tactical level of the game :) In 'Very Hard' level , the last thing you want to do is go through a huge map with 100 small rooms and try and find that 1 alien which hides in a closet somewhere on the 5th floor... With a tracking device, this is history. Ofcourse, you can only track the alien types that you have indeed researched. We all know it can take HOURS sometimes trying to find that last alien , I think a tracking device would be very welcome.
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Mind you, even without such a device it shouldn't take hours to find the last alien, simply because the aliens should not hide. Instead, they should be aggressive, taking the initiative and actively trying to kill your men (and the civvies, of course).
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sometime we run in circles ;) - and sometimes the alien seems to be kind of stuck where he is... The latter could be due to the current pathfinding issues.
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I was describing desired behaviour - it doesn't work that way right at the moment.
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It would be nice if there was a way to research ( about half the game ) a personal radar that would be able to track aliens at say, 50 meters radius. I know in Xcom this device was available and I used it to track down that last hiding alien that just kept running away. The device would work better if your character has more Mind points, so perhaps a standard range of 20 squares + mind / 4 ? That means if you character has 60 mind ( that's quite a lot ) it would be able to track aliens at 40 squares away. Ofcourse, equipping and removing the tracking device costs ALL your TU's , so you won't have time to track, then shoot.
This will make available an extra 'type' of character : Someone with high Mind who tracks down aliens. Most seal teams have a team-member that specializes in tracking ennemies so this is not like an absurd thing to implement, it would only add to the tactical level of the game :) In 'Very Hard' level , the last thing you want to do is go through a huge map with 100 small rooms and try and find that 1 alien which hides in a closet somewhere on the 5th floor... With a tracking device, this is history. Ofcourse, you can only track the alien types that you have indeed researched. We all know it can take HOURS sometimes trying to find that last alien , I think a tracking device would be very welcome.
For me personally, i think its a good idea to have one such device = a field radar.
Just the implementations, is one i dun really like. I saw X-force (another x-com inspired game), where this device can be employed earli in game. They can even be thrown (like a grenade but do not bounce).
However, it is strictly technologically based, and not on minds. Throwing requires throwing skills. (like grenade)
And the range? Maybe within 5 -8 sqs radius.
Otherwise, we could also go with Xcom original scanner (a scanner on hand) which takes up TU each time u use......
Then again, these are features, which we can implement after the MORE urgent and pressing issues (like pathfinding) are resolved. :p
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I was describing desired behaviour - it doesn't work that way right at the moment.
That would not be a strenght but a weakness in the AI.
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How so? It's better than having aliens hide all the time.
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How so? It's better than having aliens hide all the time.
When we talk about, uhm, realism: Aliens are connected in mind, right?
So the last survivor could "panic" or "freeze" when he's alone all of a sudden.
Anyway, in the meaning of a clean gameplay I'd prefer this "weakness". ;)
With hiding aliens the scanner would be a "must"...
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When we talk about, uhm, realism: Aliens are connected in mind, right?
So the last survivor could "panic" or "freeze" when he's alone all of a sudden.
Anyway, in the meaning of a clean gameplay I'd prefer this "weakness". ;)
With hiding aliens the scanner would be a "must"...
So, we are thinking along the line of 'psychic scanners' over 'proximity sensors'?
How abt initially using proximity sensors which will sense all physical objects (maybe just dots to indicate body heat or brain waves), which later-on in the game aliens would be able to shield (mind above a certain level).
This would force players to explore mind PSY issues, and come to combine this with a psychic sensors. 2 lvls research or possibly 3 lvls. What do u think?
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Psionic detection is one of the options we're exploring, though there's also your IR goggles for looking through walls (in theory at least). Oh, and as I recall there's also a plan for a small player controlled camera drone.
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Psionic detection is one of the options we're exploring, though there's also your IR goggles for looking through walls (in theory at least). Oh, and as I recall there's also a plan for a small player controlled camera drone.
Wow, tat IR goggle is remembered! Lol. (To me, it was more of a cool thing to have - like shades. lol).
Oh yes, i read somewhere abt controlled camera before..... is it even being planned at 1% yet???
Its a good idea indeed. Like a field laptop with sensors.....
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No, it's just an idea at this stage. Nothing real exists yet. No models, no coding, no writing.
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Just another weird idea at this moment... 8)
The dropship is always standing around useless - packed full with a pilot just having a quick nap and a bunch of sensors.
May be it's possible to integrate this into gameplay? The pilot could support the soldiers by using ship equipment; let's say every few turns he gives some hints where the bad guys are possibly hiding...
okok, I'll shut up before being hit... ;D
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Just another weird idea at this moment... 8)
The dropship is always standing around useless - packed full with a pilot just having a quick nap and a bunch of sensors.
May be it's possible to integrate this into gameplay? The pilot could support the soldiers by using ship equipment; let's say every few turns he gives some hints where the bad guys are possibly hiding...
okok, I'll shut up before being hit... ;D
Actually, i thnk its a great insight into the silly dozing pilot (Btw, he is not dozing. Intel has it tat he is always in standby to evacuate soldiers in emergency. Plus he's probably doing alot of opening and closing of firebird's doors since he does not wan alien wandering in. lol).
Pilots perhaps be the only one to operate this device? But he does not have to get 'proximity range' to get it to work. Try for example, distance scanning. Eg. Activate pilot and his gadget, select area to scan, wait wait .... results. Done. This is done from the firebird, hence no risk.
Again, i recommend this be for 2.4 stable or later stage. Now, unless some hardworking and upcoming new programmers / coders come in, i rather pathfinding and other wet-blankets issues be rectified. :)
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About the Firebird pilots; in later versions were going to have mission radar and UGVs, let's just say that the pilot & copilot are handling those things.
After all, the UGV's have to be remote-controlled from somewhere and someone has to be monitoring the radar.
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About the Firebird pilots; in later versions were going to have mission radar and UGVs, let's just say that the pilot & copilot are handling those things.
After all, the UGV's have to be remote-controlled from somewhere and someone has to be monitoring the radar.
Ah ha! Nods nods. UGVs..... a long forgotten gem. :) Glad its still active.
Okie abt tat. If thats the case, the sensors discussed earlier should be mobile on the individual soldiers then. :D
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@odie:
The scan would be useless, if we had to wait for it. Remember how fast some of the aliens are!
In this case I'd prefer the logic of "teamwork": The pilot only scans areas which the soldiers are currently NOT near (the reason could be that personal gear of the soldiers interferes with the scanner)!
This would help finding hiding/stuck aliens, but not make them "always visible"...
Of course this is nothing for 2.3. :)
@Chriswriter90:
You're right, I forgot about the UGV's...
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@odie:
The scan would be useless, if we had to wait for it. Remember how fast some of the aliens are!
In this case I'd prefer the logic of "teamwork": The pilot only scans areas which the soldiers are currently NOT near (the reason could be that personal gear of the soldiers interferes with the scanner)!
This would help finding hiding/stuck aliens, but not make them "always visible"...
Borsti,
Actually i agree. I mean in the heat of battle, who has time to take out a scanner to start scanning for stuff... lol.
But have u seen the X-force's concept of the field scanner? Very simple. Simply deploy on floor (and it acts like a 360degree active scanner). And best part? U can actually pick it up again and redeploy if need.
Something along tat line, sounds good. Like a proximity detectors (alongside proximity grenades' AI), and is actually very military-employed in today's army too. :P
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Perhaps it could be possible that a "close range sensor package" could be researched in the game and then be fitted into a dropship like an ECM. This would then project a "radar" that would show an area where the sensors had detected aliens. It could be that if the aliens move a lot, the area is big and fuzzy and would not be that much use, while if the alien just camps somewhere, sensors would detect a clear signal from him and make only a little spot in the radar.
On a similiar thing, it would make more sense that thermal goggles would not let people look through walls. You could make a sonar function in them so they could do that but otherwise it doesn't make sense.
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in the heat of battle, who has time to take out a scanner to start scanning for stuff... lol.
You'd be amazed to hear that tactical information wins most battles. As a platoon commander I would love to have as much intel from the battleground as possible. I would rather have two people on scanning duty during heavy battle than two extra people shooting.
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What if you only had two people?
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In that case I'd prefer to whip out the scanner before going into a possible ambush zone even more. Because surrounding the enemy is clearly not an option.
But I'm against the scanner. You still can't distinguish between aliens and civvies, so you'll always have a lot of signals to chase. In some situations it might be too powerful, telling you which houses to skip.
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You'd be amazed to hear that tactical information wins most battles. As a platoon commander I would love to have as much intel from the battleground as possible. I would rather have two people on scanning duty during heavy battle than two extra people shooting.
Yes i agree.... thats basically what scouts are for (Forward Observer [aka FO]).... they are supposed to gather intel to minimise danger.......
Esp here on the ground with Aliens.
U see, i am sure alot of us (including myself at times) shoot on sight and tries to kill on sighting of aliens. What we are forgetting is in most SUCCESSFUL warfare, we sight an alien, then we keep track of it (And NOT shoot yet), gather up the big guys (the automatic weapons and snipers + assault team), ready and go in at one short. Yupz. Thats why real war experience is impt here, its practically practical. :P
What if you only had two people?
I would do the tactical wait for best opportunity - snipe and guerilla warfare......
But I'm against the scanner. You still can't distinguish between aliens and civvies, so you'll always have a lot of signals to chase. In some situations it might be too powerful, telling you which houses to skip.
Well well, u can actually. Civi's dun use strange metals (like aliens), they exhibit diff heat energies (since scanners are adv enuf, we assume they can make the difference, and soldiers are trained to note the difference). Scanners should also probably pick up the approx shape of the heat / watever bandwidth of the 'objects' (aliens / civi / even our own soldiers) inside .....
Sounds logical?
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I wanted to request it sometimes later after 2.3 is released but since a discusion is already here...
I saw in TV once about a new gadget that the SWAT team was using. A set of a grenade-camera and a ocular head-set. It is already field tested. One soldier throws a grenade-like thing that in fact is not an explosive device. You can throw it around a corner, bounce it of the wall or ceiling, over a barricade. The device is equipped with several cameras giving a 360 degrees view around it. Then anyone who has a special head set and who is close enough can 'see through its eyes'.
As I see it in game terms: One soldier could throw a grenade-camera. Second soldier would use his head set to change the point of his sight to the point were the camera currently lies. He would have to turn around to emulate operating the device and changing the angle of his new sight. When activating his head set he could have more than one camera available for him from a list but I do not think it would be hard to code a list of max 8 cameras available at one time [there wouldn't be a need for more than 3 I think]
Anyway if we will have flying drone cameras then this idea is obsolete anyway :/
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I wanted to request it sometimes later after 2.3 is released but since a discusion is already here...
I saw in TV once about a new gadget that the SWAT team was using. A set of a grenade-camera and a ocular head-set. It is already field tested. One soldier throws a grenade-like thing that in fact is not an explosive device. You can throw it around a corner, bounce it of the wall or ceiling, over a barricade. The device is equipped with several cameras giving a 360 degrees view around it. Then anyone who has a special head set and who is close enough can 'see through its eyes'.
As I see it in game terms: One soldier could throw a grenade-camera. Second soldier would use his head set to change the point of his sight to the point were the camera currently lies. He would have to turn around to emulate operating the device and changing the angle of his new sight. When activating his head set he could have more than one camera available for him from a list but I do not think it would be hard to code a list of max 8 cameras available at one time [there wouldn't be a need for more than 3 I think]
Anyway if we will have flying drone cameras then this idea is obsolete anyway :/
Ah, sounds a little bit like the mine-field de-miner robot i used to handle when i was a field-pioneer (engineer of sorts, on wheels)........ they have field camera and can even move!! Cool lil gadgets...... lol. (Not to mention they can actually try to defuse a mine, w/o an actual soldier there).
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*request*
Sounds like something Phalanx could have from the start. Also this would give the "problematic" head slot some use if you'd need the headset for it. Of course, when we have the flying drones this becomes obsolete but I guess drones aren't here from the start.
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Sounds like something Phalanx could have from the start. Also this would give the "problematic" head slot some use if you'd need the headset for it. Of course, when we have the flying drones this becomes obsolete but I guess drones aren't here from the start.
*OH WAIT*
Why dun we integrate the scanner INTO the goggle??
U know, one of those press a button by the side of the headset and u get some VR view of the surroundings?? Hmmmm....
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I think Hertzila called the headgear slot problematic b/c there's only one item for it. If the two items don't get merged, you have to make a choice, which makes things more interesting.
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Presicely. It would give the headgear slot more use than just the IR goggles (though I think we could give them sonar imaging and simply call them "scanner goggles," if you want that "look through walls" stuff). It would be that the headset is required for using these "third-eyes" but many soldiers could use the same "eye" in the same time. It could also be available for reaction fire (ie. you can see enemies through them and that way reaction fire will be triggered by them).
But anyway, I think this is getting a little offtopic. For the alien radar I still say that an extra module labeled like that is more or less the best choice. When alien stands still, the signal is clear but when it moves, the signal is really fuzzy and unclear. Bigger gang moving means more fuzzy signal while bigger gang camping means unbelieveably clear signal.
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Presicely. It would give the headgear slot more use than just the IR goggles (though I think we could give them sonar imaging and simply call them "scanner goggles," if you want that "look through walls" stuff). It would be that the headset is required for using these "third-eyes" but many soldiers could use the same "eye" in the same time. It could also be available for reaction fire (ie. you can see enemies through them and that way reaction fire will be triggered by them).
Agreed! :P Along what some of us here were thinking.... at least it is for me. :D
But anyway, I think this is getting a little offtopic.
Hehe... no lar, i dun thnk we are going too off topic. :P
For the alien radar I still say that an extra module labeled like that is more or less the best choice. When alien stands still, the signal is clear but when it moves, the signal is really fuzzy and unclear. Bigger gang moving means more fuzzy signal while bigger gang camping means unbelieveably clear signal.
Nah, dun complicate programming..... If its within range, u see him. If not, its off the radar range. Period. :D
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Nah, dun complicate programming..... If its within range, u see him. If not, its off the radar range. Period. :D
It was meant to help you find the last alien, a thing someone said to be a problem. Complicated? Yes but more enjoyable than looking through every corner in the map. Though if the AI is going to be changed, I guess this is not going to be a problem anymore and this concept can be abandoned.
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Hertzila: 99% agree. ;D
Even if AI changes, I'd find it a nice gimmick.