UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Tactics => Topic started by: master on July 05, 2007, 03:10:45 pm
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My Tactic is a the start of a mission is to split up my men in groups of four or two, based on what type of weapons they a good with
Assault and Snipers, Heavy weapons and Close Combat, High Explosives and Assault men
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I don't even understand what I'm supposed to be answering for the poll question.
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Same here.
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First post on the forum "Yay!" (N00b)
In response to the whole 'tactics' question I tend to start right back at base, equiping my troops.
4x Assault
2x Sniper
1x Heavy Weapons
1x Support (Medic-esque)
When the mission starts I immediately move my pair of snipers towards the closest and highest building, With a roof, to provide cover.
My assault team divides into two pairs and takes alternate routes to stop aliens slipping past toward the support troops back at the dropship.
My 'support' troops, the medic and heavy weapons guy only come into play when a pair becomes pinned down by an enemy, in which case a helpful heavy rocket and heals is welcome.
Thats how I run most missions at the moment, I imagine once some of my units become 'elite' as it were I will switch equipment to try to keep them safer or put them on sniper detail. :D
Any constructive criticism is welcome as some of the time this tactic becomes unwieldy.
Cheers... :shock:
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I try to edit my loadouts so my snipers can switch to pistols as primary weapons, and still carry their rifles.
This is important when entering buildings, where a pistol is better for the tight spaces. After all, in the starting scenario, there are aliens in the closest buildings.
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So far my tactic has been to split my team into 3 groups. 2 sweeping and 1 long range support. The two sweep teams take different routes through the map to clear out aliens and get between baddies and civilians/save civilians. The long range support usually is just a sniper with someone nearby for closer range protection. I imagine tactics will change on harder difficulty settings. Haven't used much close range or grenades.
Sweeper teams generally have reacitonary fire ready and I try to keep the team near some form of cover. I will probably try to make more use of small arms and grenades though. I like the previous poster's suggestion of two pistols to make a sniper more effective in indoor situations.
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My tactics are kind of uncertain now, as I transition from X-com to use of multiple weapon disciplines. ;D
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First post on the forum "Yay!" (N00b)
In response to the whole 'tactics' question I tend to start right back at base, equiping my troops.
4x Assault
2x Sniper
1x Heavy Weapons
1x Support (Medic-esque)
When the mission starts I immediately move my pair of snipers towards the closest and highest building, With a roof, to provide cover.
My assault team divides into two pairs and takes alternate routes to stop aliens slipping past toward the support troops back at the dropship.
My 'support' troops, the medic and heavy weapons guy only come into play when a pair becomes pinned down by an enemy, in which case a helpful heavy rocket and heals is welcome.
Thats how I run most missions at the moment, I imagine once some of my units become 'elite' as it were I will switch equipment to try to keep them safer or put them on sniper detail. :D
Any constructive criticism is welcome as some of the time this tactic becomes unwieldy.
Cheers... :shock:
That doesn't work on harder difficulties.
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My approach generally has six Assault soldiers, one Grenadier, and one Medic. The Assaults wield anything from the so-named rifle, Machineguns, SMGs, and Sniper Rifles (though no more than two Snipers per squad). The Grenadier uses the Launcher, not hand-thrown grenades. The Medic carries a Medkit in one hand and a Pistol in the other. The Assaults eventually progress to Lasers, then half to Plasma (also carrying a researched pistol of a different damage type than his primary), while the Grenadier sticks with his core weapon until he gets Plasma rounds. The Medic eventually swaps for a Laser Pistol (for range), and later holds a Plasma Pistol in his holster for close-up emergencies.
I like to deploy two groups of three; two spread behind partial cover up front (with better armor when available) and one midway and behind them, usually with a heavier weapon (higher reaction TU cost). The Grenadier usually stays between the two groups, moving to support one or the other as needed. He fires much like as an artillery piece (though with somewhat lacking range), usually trying to bounce/roll shots alongside covering enemies. He usually exhausts his ammunition in 2-3 rounds of bombardment, letting me swap in Incendiaries. He keeps one flechette salvo in his pack, just in case he needs to go door-to-door. The medic carries a belt of assorted of defensive grenades so he can holster/ditch his gun and start throwing smoke, fire, or flashbangs.
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Load up with grenades and rocket launchers, lasers (rifle and heavy), and the best possible armour. Snipe and RF aliens from beyond the effective range of their weapons. Use overpowered SMGs at close/medium range. Plasma blades at melee range. Saturate hiding aliens with indirect fire and explosives. Enough said.
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Howdy,
Tactically, the first thing I do is sort my troops and add designations to the end of their names, as I did in old UFO... As the months go by and I'm given loads of cannon fodder (CF) soldiers, and a few occasionally good ones, I rotate them in to a squad or keep them on staff for injuries. I only really protect those with the ability to improve (at least competent Mind stat) and other abilities that are survivable, i.e. a high mind stat and a close with at least average speed... These are my SQ1 group, and if any of them die, I generally restart the mission, lame as that sounds. I also pick one of the SQ1 to be my kind of rep, high speed, average+ accuracy and competent mind; weapons skills are kind of bunk at that point. This member rocks the SMG perpetually... and I've had no problems yet, labeled OFF. Some of my SQ1 members are proficient or so in other weapons skills, namely Heavy Weapons, which somehow I lucked out and had two pretty good heavy weapons guys, a sniper, and a couple just so-so. The so-so-ers start with the plentiful shotguns (snipers occasionally), by the time I have better weapons they're strong enough in either assault or close to hold their own, provided they survive. Anyways, upon landing in the mission area, the first priority is to determine how F-ed the civvies are and how I can save them without taking too many casualties.
After a quick look around, I dispatch troops in pairs or so, sometimes more, depending on the situation. Often, I'll move my machine gunner or OFF to cover nearby building entrances (or windows, anywhere an alien could be lurking who could wind up with the drop on my squad next turn). I generally progress about the level aggressively with the light equipped members (namely the OFF, some CF, or whoever is closest to gunfire) but 90% of the time have at least one RF shot stored, about 50% the time multiple. All turns end crouched, most end near cover. I like to try to use the dropship for cover too, when possible, but on assault, the maps are forgiving enough to give you multiple firing arcs to cover your soldiers. Windows are great.
I have noticed, however, that my soldiers have a very hard time responding to fire from a higher level, like in the Estate map, even my Sniper. Maybe they just don't have an angle to see the enemy.
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1 sniper - SMG backup
1 grenade launcher - smg backup
6 assault rifles - extra grenades and medikit backup
grenades flashbangs and knives for everyone!
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Hi! My first post in the forum. :)
I prefer another combination:
1 x flamethrower (+ stun rod)
1 x laser pistol (+ stun rod)
2 x grenade launcher ( + laser pistol, extra grenades)
2 x laser rifle ( + medkit)
1 x heavy laser (+ extra ammo)
1 x sniper rifle (+ medkit)
My tactic depends on the terrain, but I am used to operate 2 squads with 4 soldiers each (shortrange, grenade launcher, 2 sniper/laser) or with 3 soldiers per squad and 2 sniper/RF-soldiers. At least 3 soldiers are equipped with medkits - often 4 ones.
I just played the standard campaign and it worked quite well.
cu
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Hmm do people find flame throwers usable?
Ok, at a very close range they are cool, but I am not sure, i think the other weapons in general seem to be better.
About the question, I normally try to make small teams, 3-6
4 or 5 people are best i think
If i use too many people, I tend to misplace them more often and they die faster too
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Hmm do people find flame throwers usable?
Ok, at a very close range they are cool, but I am not sure, i think the other weapons in general seem to be better.
About the question, I normally try to make small teams, 3-6
4 or 5 people are best i think
If i use too many people, I tend to misplace them more often and they die faster too
I always use the full squad of 8 soldiers. Every guy adds more firepower and there allows to kill the aliens faster. It really depends on the map how i group my soldiers, but most of the time i have 2 squads of 4 soldiers. 4 soldiers have often sufficient firepower, to spot one or two aliens and kill them and retreat back into cover.
Concerning the flamethrower:
You mentioned the most important aspect yourself: the flamethrower is really deadly within its range. Especially in maps with enough cover and many buildings i used it quite often. And it is ,of course, quite useless in open maps, where you need superior range (e.g. druglord-map)
But lately i started to replace the flamethrower with the SMG (right now THE best weapon)...the SMG has superiror range, and is also able to kill an alien with a full-auto salvo...but i expect that the SMG will be rebalanced at some point.
Once the features for equipping your squad just before the mission, after a mission briefing is implemented, you will be able the choose your weaponry better suited for the.
Meanwhile, i recommend researching Laser pistols. They are extremly accurate, deal acceptable damage and have a sufficient range. If I dont know the map, all my short ranged units (granade laucher, SMG, Flamethrower) start with a laser pistol in their hands and an empty holster. This way they can return fire and once they come to close range, they just put away the laser pistols and go for the kill...
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I like to have two smg soldiers, at least at the beginning.
These weapons are very good at short distances (they can kill an alien without armor with one or two shots, while assault rifles can't), and they can cover the squad at great distances.
On Hard difficulty games, aliens don't like to come directly under a line of fire, so smg are good in keeping the aliens far away, while the others members of the team move around them. I don't know whether it is a bug of the 2.2 version or not, but I've noticed that soldiers with smg have a longer range than snipers when using reaction fire.
My team is usually like this:
- 2 smg soldiers (close)
- 1 or 2 assault with assault rifles
- 2 or 1 snipers
- 1 soldier with a good close-range weapon, e.g. shotgun with flechettes or flamethrower;
- 1 medic/explorer
- 1 grenade launcher
Lately I've discovered that I like very much laser weapons, and I'm thinking about replacing 1 or both of my snipers or a smg with laser rifles.
A team with laser rifles is very good at long distances, but has some problems at short range, so I have to keep a flamer guy or somebody with shotgun.
I've never used alien weapons... I just don't like the idea of using them :)
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I do not under stand the concept of a dedicated medic. All my units have med kit in their backpacks. I'd rather kill the enemy before they can do more damage instead of dragging a fight out. I travel in packs, If I have too, I move two units to cover and commence with the dispensing of band-aids.
Barring some other tactic being more adventitious(setting up a kill zone at long range, or flanking the alien's hiding place from behind with some plasma grenade love.) I pray on the alien weapon's weakness, long range combat. Outside a partial weapon, even then only then in good hands, the alien's can't hit the broad side of a barn if they haven't planted their face in it.
Weapon load outs? I split between a one:one ratio of heavy lasers and bolt rifles ASAP(ignoring the alien guns completely). The lasers have the range and accuracy to shoot across the map with a fair margin of stopping power. Even between builds the bolt rifles are excellent weapons, and are lethal at medium to close range. They also have some long range power. I use lasers to lock down area's of the map or setup long range kill zones from some distance away. Baring a partial weapon, even then only in good hands, the alien's weapons medium to long range capabilities are laughable! I have no problems picking them off or locking them down to take them out at my pleasure.
General procedure? I respect the uses of different weapons, I don't brake my units up in set patterns. Every tool has it's place, and every place has it's tool. I lock down sections of the map, sweep it clean, and move on careful to never expose a area I've already cleared to the aliens. Sounds hard, but it's not. When you run into a new map, just plan ahead and think it though.
If it's a large open area, I'll post the heavy lasers up somewhere high. Trusting them to keep the aliens from hopping from cover to cover without at least being spotted. Then use the bolt rifles to pick the place clean.
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I do not under stand the concept of a dedicated medic. All my units have med kit in their backpacks. I'd rather kill the enemy before they can do more damage instead of dragging a fight out. I travel in packs, If I have too, I move two units to cover and commence with the dispensing of band-aids.
Sometimes it's useful to have a soldier with the medikit and a stunning rod already in his hands.
I know it costs only 2 TU to take the medikit, but sometimes even 2 TU are important... and if the soldier has too low HP to be healed and has not enougth TU to move for cover, you can always stun him, so you won't lose a veteran soldier.
Also, consider that the medic/explorer unit is often a dispensable soldier, which an average/good speed (23-24), low accuracy, and good in close and explosive weapons.
He will usually move into rooms and covered angles to see if there are aliens, with the rest of the team covering him.
Anyway, I agree with equipping all the soldiers with a medikit in their backpack.
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He will usually move into rooms and covered angles to see if there are aliens, with the rest of the team covering him.
Yeah, we're covering you, meat shield. Now get in there before I see an alien behind you.
You're cold, ufogio, damn cold. ;) ;D
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Yeah, we're covering you, meat shield. Now get in there before I see an alien behind you.
You're cold, ufogio, damn cold. ;) ;D
eheh no.. I think he likes his work.
You know, not many people can say 'Hey, I was the first person to see an alien' so frequently.
Maybe next time I will equip him with flowers in his hand instead of a medikit.. :)
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Why can't we all just... get along?
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Why can't we all just... get along?
No! That would be peaceful, we can't have that! The world would explode! :p
Also, consider that the medic/explorer unit is often a dispensable soldier, which an average/good speed (23-24), low accuracy, and good in close and explosive weapons.
There a problem, if they're expendable human resources will expend them, as in fire. I don't have room on my squads for expendable screw ups. :) They either are not or will die trying not to be! :)
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There a problem, if they're expendable human resources will expend them, as in fire. I don't have room on my squads for expendable screw ups. :) They either are not or will die trying not to be! :)
[/quote]Well, I played the Hard campaign 3 or 4 times, and I've lost the medic unit only a few times.
It's not really more dangerous than the other positions... keep the medic always covered by his companions, and it is ok.
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Even then that's one less gun I have to kill the enemy. My view is the faster their dead, the less time they have to fire back, and the less damage I'll take. The longer the fight lasts the more damage I take, and the more a need med-kits.
In practice the only time I've had to fall units back for band-aids during a fire fight is when I setup a firing line at range and leave my guys on reaction fire for a few turns. To snipe the enemy when they pop out of cover, and I flank them from another side. There are few times in close range combat that the aliens pop around a corner just before by guys do. I'm heavy exploiting the alien's lack of good ranged combat ability. In which case they may score one or two solid hit, but rare enough to kill my guys outright.
Either that or the AI takes one or two shots, enough to cripple a unit maybe, but always ducks just around a corner to take cover at the end of a their turn. Not the brightest idea to always be just out of sight, I know where they are so their about to meet the business end of a plasma grenade or blade. Fight over, potential for further damage: zero. Then commence with the dispensing of band-aids.
There are times AI doesn't know what to do when you don't fear it, or refuse to charge it.
Edit: Their weapons and tactics are center on medium range combat, or a close range ambush.
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Question: Are smokes and flashbangs any use?if so what difficulty level? Tried flashbang in hardest and didn't recognize an effect - 1 hit kill -.-
I'd go for the kill right away too, nades are only for aliens above, no need to flash him if a 3shot burst from a nader wipes him out.
Also in hardest snipers and rocket seem to be useless, you need the heavy machine guns or close combat where you deal a lot of damage with your ActionPoints
Pretty annoying I get ruined in easiest difficulty level already in the 1st mission loosing a soldier or at least 2 civilians before I can eliminate the aliens. In hard one of my last 2 men panicked and killed the other soldier and ran after the civ, that's fun! :P
Any detection devices implemented yet? (Psi-Detector, Movement Detector, etc.) I didn't look at anything, but I guess those would be a great help especially since you cant save during fights which would give them a real use not like in any of the commercial UFO games.
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New to UFO:AI, playing on Normal, early in the game
Squad:
2 snipers
2 grande launchers
2 machine guns (starting to love those - plenty of punch, plenty of range)
2 assault rifles
All soldiers carry med pacs - I am with Panthera Leo here - "everyone fights"
Essentially, no close weapon use (maybe my UFOEU experience talking)
If engaged early, snipers (at least one) head to high ground, rifles scout and protect grande launcher guys, machine guns are great for both RF as well as clearing rooms. Aliens are armed now, so I am starting to feel regular assault rifles are not cutting it. Laser should be ready any day though.
If I don't see 'em...Typically split into two equal element teams, each has a rifleman as a spotter, machine gun as primary killer (mid-high range), granade launcher and sniper get applied as needed.
Soldiers almost always move in two's, so that if one is wounded the other can cover them - either finish the alien, heal, or keep them healed while they shoot it out.
I tend not to use the rocket launcher at all, since it does not seem to destroy walls - liked that a lot in UFO:EU - "sort through the rubble" approach to clearing buildings
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I tend to only have one or two guys shot at a round so I figure I got plenty of time to run over and medic the dude. Because I do not have any of my soldiers go solo (cept the snipers to high ground course) I just move the wounded guy back to a better place (though once I had a grey drop down next to him with a kerr blade on the convoy map...grrr) and have him cover his partner. Works for me. Like I said earlier, it all depends on playing style my man. Course there are problems if I spread my dudes out thin over the map but that hardly happens (though the resort map was kinda a pain). I'd rather have my wounded guys use their TUs to move back and set up reaction fire than pull out and use a med kit that sucks up all their TUs...nevermind the fact if they are missing TUs because they fired last round (donno if that is a bug or not but it happens to me).
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*Crazy rant snipped*
Regards,
Winter
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Essentially, no close weapon use (maybe my UFOEU experience talking)
To each his own, of course, but the high range and accuracy of the Laser Pistol make it a quite effective weapon for covering/reaction fire.
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This is your only warning, Bipto, we don't tolerate abusive crap here. Do it again and you'll be on a one-way train to bansville real quick.
Regards,
Winter
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I'm in the anti-pistol crew, I dump everything but assault rifles and sniper rifles and I match those up with each soldier's skill. Every soldier is a rifleman and a medic. Since I don't have pistols, I put the medi-kit in the holster and load it and the belt up with frag grenades. Most engagements are over with before you run out of ammo so I have on clip in the belt and one or two in the backpack. Of course, combat armor for everyone. That's my starting load out.
As the game advances, I'll give a few heavy lasers to those that are skilled and bolters/laser rifles for the rest. I like the medium to long range engagements. :-)
I also have a tendancy to start my soldiers with a frag grenade in their off hand after I have researched plasma grenades. This gives my troops a lot of practice with lobbing surplus frag grenades. Improving your throwing skill becomes essential with plasma and gas grenades later. Clever use of 'bank shots' with grenades makes them a flexible weapon system.
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TAZ
Oh yeah, dropping a grenade only takes a single TU if you don't have a place to chuck it.
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clever way to boost grenade-lobbing skill. have to look into that - currently do not use grenades at all, almost.
I am almost all the way with you on the loadout. I am a big fan of the machine gun, though. Great killing power, great range.
In early game, where you cannot sustain any shots - grneade launchers are a great support / suppression weapon. Lately, though, I switched the GL for SMG's - once I had next armor up. I am rapidly starting to like those - send two guy on flanking maneuvers to get up close or even to support an odd sniper - lots of noise in general direction of a baddy keeps them pinned, gives the sniper a chance to shoot.
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I try to edit my loadouts so my snipers can switch to pistols as primary weapons, and still carry their rifles.
This is important when entering buildings, where a pistol is better for the tight spaces. After all, in the starting scenario, there are aliens in the closest buildings.
This is an interesting and well-founded approach, although I find that pistols have a harder time taking down the tougher aliens such as Ortnoks, who can at times absorb a disturbing number of rounds. It's definitely true that maneuverability is important in tight spaces, but it's my opinion that the SMG is best for this. It's still small, although a 2-handed weapon, and it can auto-fire far better than a pistol. It needs fewer reloads, and packs way more punch. Indeed, I believe the SMG was designed for this, and this is why many top-level special forces and SWAT teams use various SMGs like the MP5. However, I do equip my sniper and grenadier with pistols, just as you say, for the same reason: a smart and clearly carefully considered tactic.
As for my general loadout, it goes thus:
1 sniper, armed with sidearm for close-quarters fighting
1 heavy machine gunner: for general heavy fire support
1 grenadier: for indirect fire and nest-clearing, armed with sidearm for close fighting
1 rifleman armed with the assault rifle, which has a better range than the SMG.
3 "stormtroopers": armed with SMGs, and tend to be the ones used to storm buildings and rooms
1 medic: armed also with SMG and medi-kit. Tends to stay back and middle, so she can branch out for medical assistance.
I used to use the shotgun for my primary stormtrooper, but found the shotgun really lacking at mid-range fighting, so I switched to the SMG. I also have shied away from too many assault rifles, mostly because I find that assault-rifle armed agents tend to reaction-fire with one shot (even when set to full-auto on reaction fire). I also used the flamethrower for close storming, but found the weapon wholly useless except at close-range. I'd like to develop a good, specific use for the flamethrower, such as against alien bunkers (the reason for which flamethrowers were originally designed), but a small special-forces team needs more versatility than is afforded by the flamethrower.
The sniper is really the chess-queen of the battlefield. With a good sniper post and excellent team discipline, the player can really punish the aliens with the sniper, which is exactly what snipers are intended and meant to do. A good sniper can win a mission, just as a real situation, and is a must to almost any mission where there are sizable distances to cover. This use of the sniper in UFO:AI is what makes this game so excellent. It really rewards the player for developed a sophisticated practice, not just a standard loadout. In the XCOM series, there was really little advantage in using snipers, although I still did. This game really takes advantage of the diversity of weapons, while limiting the sniper realistically with such issues as magazine load and fire rate. My sniper is almost always escorted by another agent with better close-in fighting abilities.
I really want to develop a doctrine for melee fighting. Generally, I avoid melee fighting because it usually happens as a result of bad fire-arc control and poor planning. However, I would like to eventually develop a well-tested doctrine for equipment and tactics for bladed kills. Currently, all agents carry a plasma blade, the one-shot death knife, but never has an alien come even remotely close enough to necessitate using one. My general plan is to cover all arcs of fire and approach, then win the firefight through superior planning and aim. When the aliens stop assaulting and hide, then it's time for very careful SWAT-style assault: mutual cover, watching all arcs, flashbang/frag a room, then storm. More than once has an alien popped out of a room at close range to try and take out my agents, only to find 2-4 agents stacked up with various firing angles on that very door, followed by a hail of bullets.
That kind of tension, and the way the game rewards the meticulous player, is what makes UFO:AI not just a game, but an experience. Like I've said in other posts, this kind of game teaches a real skill, one of planning and management. It's chess, but far more exciting!
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I really want to develop a doctrine for melee fighting. Generally, I avoid melee fighting because it usually happens as a result of bad fire-arc control and poor planning. However, I would like to eventually develop a well-tested doctrine for equipment and tactics for bladed kills.
Hmm, the idea of a 'ninja' team sounds fun. But, I find that the only melee training that I need is that narrow window between the development of the stunrod and the development of the gas grenade. After you have gas grenades, melee combat is an accident and generally not part of my plan.
Currently, all agents carry a plasma blade, the one-shot death knife, but never has an alien come even remotely close enough to necessitate using one.
It's not a knife, it's a hand held panzerfaust. ;-)
They may become important when alien vehicles are added to the game, especially if they're invulnerable to small arms fire.
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TAZ
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Can we not use the plasma blade against alien troops?
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Sure you can, it's just not my tactical style.
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TAZ
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I've got two identic teams, Alpha and Beta, four guys each. I play on the diffculty just below "normal", or standard. Every team consists of
Sniper - No grenades, pistols, or meelee weapons, no need.
Grenadier - the artillery guy, good for shooting behind a fence, wall, or on roofs. Recently I tried to give one grenadier a rocket launcher, but I don't know yet if it's a good choice. These guys gets used the least, but when yes, they're irreplaceable.
Assaulter - having some rifle, most newly - a particle beam rifle, which really kicks, whatever the aliens has instead of ass. Assaulters attacks, defends, guards, just as everyone else, when needed.
Agent - quick, skilled in close combat guy, wielding a particle pistol and a stun rod. Good for exploring the map, securing rooms, and killing everything what comes too close. I'm gonna soon replace the stunning rod with gas grenades, I hope that helps.
So, this is Alpha or Beta team. So far it works rather well, I don't reload a mission 20 times or so. My problems are caused probably by a lack of a good armor (manufacturing it somehow doesn't work) and my ignorance of medikits, which lies uselessly in every soldier's backpack.
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Roy,
well, you better figure out production, brother - armor does rule.
Medkits - equip in the off-hand, stand next to wounded dude/gal, choose "heal" (as oppose to "throw" - thwoing a medikit at the head of a wounded soldier is not an approved healing technique).
I am with you on two element teams. If I am not clear on where the enemy is and need to explore, that is how I break up - two teams, one weapon of each kind in each.
We differ on machine guns. I love those things. I think your life will be easier if you embrace the machine gun instead of SMG, for now. Eventually you can switch your GL guys to SMG + granades (same skill as GL). For now - use the superior range.
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Two snipers, two explosives, two heavies, and two expendables.
The snipers cover each other and head for high ground or LOS to trouble spots, clip and medkit holstered. My heavies use machine guns until I get heavy lasers and fill the assault and suppression role. Clip, medkit, and flash or gas 'nades for these boys. Exploders use grenade launchers and have ammo and a rocket launcher in the pack, flash/frag or gas/plasma 'nades in belt, and a medkit in the holster. These guys are a prime kill team, I've gotten good at lobbing around corners and over stuff by targeting a few squares short and <shift>ing my aim up with timed grenades. The expendables start with a SMG and holstered medkit, up-armor to laser pistol and stun rod, finally topping out with particle beam pistol and medkit in-hand.
The actual tactics are pretty simple and obvious. The expendables scout things out, sometimes shooting aliens and sometimes retreating when they find them. Heavies and explosives follow them in, killing or flushing aliens with direct and indirect fire. Obviously the snipers pop anything they can see.
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Does there have to be an "expendable" pair? I think slow and careful progress allows everyone to come home.
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Two snipers, two explosives, two heavies, and two expendables.
I found a good diversity of skills of my troops extremely useful in the long run as new toys are becoming available. Diverse team (not just snipers and close combat troops) might not perform perfectly on purely open or purely bunker style maps, but ... they will perform on all maps (the word consistency is the key here).
I have to agree that reaction fire in open areas is a luxury of players who reload after sustaining casualties. I do reload and if I did not, all my snipers would have been killed 1-2 times by now. When there are 4-5 aliens shooting at my guys from particle rifles, then 2 hits (with nano armor) is enough to free the poor sinner's soul.
The team:
Stage I Stage II
2xSnipers 1xSniper
1xGL 1xGL (he gets to places nobody gets to)
1xRocket L 1xRocket L (he never misses)
1xHeavy Gunner 1xHeavy Laser
1xFlamer 1xFlamer (one of the highest kill scores - the only trooper who can enter a room with 2-3 armored orntoks and survive on his own)
1xAssault 2xLaser Rifles
1xSMG 1xSMG + Gas Grenades
Many wrote about gas grenades. My SMG guy has about 10 of them on him (holster and belt) and there were few maps when I used all of them (with 5 captured aliens). If one wants to keep casualties to minimum, throw a gas grenade and then ask questions/enter room later. It helps with blocking civilians too or putting them to sleep vs allowing them to run back into open asking to be killed. I used it to great effect for saving my troopers - half stunned solder is impossible to kill, since the moment his health dips below stun (gray) line he will get knocked out and survive the mission (better stunned then dead for sure). I have to confess in violating international agreements on multiple occasions by gassing not only aliens but my solders as well for the aforementioned reasons. While it might be hard to throw a grenade too close to the alien to stun them immediately, half stun plus few laser shots convinces them effectively in favor of sleeping.
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Flamethrower - highest kills? Really? I am impressed. If you can toss a couple of grenades in the room, why burn, then?
Rocket L - wow. How many rockets do you take with you?
Is GL guy THAT much better that a SMG guy with many gas grenades? I would remove the GL guy in favor of two SMG + gas grenade specialists. Same guy, actually - now two can clear rooms, suppress across the map on reaction fire, and lob greandes.
on my squad the record for highest numebr of kills with one shot belongs to a GL guys, of all people. Mansion mission, 5 aliens were coming down the stairs in a perfect "+" formation. he poked his head in, placed 3 rounds, air-burst, smack in the middle of the group. 4 aliens were instant fertilizer, one more stood on his feet until a SMG guy poked his head in and put the last of the Ortnoks to sleep
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one more thing. stun rods and gas grenades for convincing civilians to follow reason is an old, tried and true technique. Knocking out your own soldiers, however - now here is an unorthodox rescue technique.
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Flamethrower - highest kills? Really? I am impressed. If you can toss a couple of grenades in the room, why burn, then?
Normal grenades have to be tossed right next to the armored orntok to be effective - fire kills with 100% certainty. Gas grenades do become very effective and I do a lot of tossing. The reason for my adherence to flamer is due to my attempts to develop a technique for next game I will play, when I will minimize reliance on reaction fire (RF) (due to no reload for killed troopers). Imaging a need to run through the corridor and duck into a room, where 1-2 aliens might hide or not. If I throw grenade before entering then I will have only 5 TU remaining - god forbid even one remained alive. Entering with SMG and using it if necessary is OK against tamans, but in a 5x5 room it will not always kill armored orntok. Flamer is always the best bet in those situations - nothing survives his entry with 12 TUs ... ever.
Rocket L - wow. How many rockets do you take with you?
Good question - many. Weapon(1) + Belt (1) + Holster (3) + backpack (remaining space after medi-kit ~3). He performs a function of a sniper actually with scary efficiency. As I said he almost never misses and always kills.
Is GL guy THAT much better that a SMG guy with many gas grenades? I would remove the GL guy in favor of two SMG + gas grenade specialists. Same guy, actually - now two can clear rooms, suppress across the map on reaction fire, and lob grenades.
I am inclined to agree. GL guy might be less effective, but he does become more attractive the more conservative your play becomes. If I saw an alien across the fence I will never send laser/fire troopers there before massive doses of GL fired grenades. He will not be always effective, but every kill insures one less exposure of my troops to direct line of fire. As aliens will start using RF more often getting out of cover will become that much more dangerous.
on my squad the record for highest number of kills with one shot belongs to a GL guys, of all people. Mansion mission, 5 aliens were coming down the stairs in a perfect "+" formation. he poked his head in, placed 3 rounds, air-burst, smack in the middle of the group. 4 aliens were instant fertilizer, one more stood on his feet until a SMG guy poked his head in and put the last of the Ortnoks to sleep
Hi five for GL trooper! My flamer is behind - his max toast count in one shot is 3 so far.
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Man, oh man! It sounds like I have two new weapons to practive with... HE specialist acting as a sniper... Flamethrower, too.
Ok, this is what bugs me about those two weapons: they are both narrowly specialized. A rockel launcher is no good at clearing rooms and a flamethrower is useless anywhere outside close range. A sniper can crouch and hold the coridir of a building and the SMG can actually score a kill at a signifocant distance (due to a large number number of bullets fired) or at least scare the crap out of the bad guys by sounding all loud and scary. My (somewhat irrational) tendency towards having everyone be at least decent at everything is keeping me from embracing those highly specialized weapons.
In my defense, the under-barrell grenade launcher employed by the US army replaced the M-80 grenade launcher (Vietnam time frame) for just that reason - a guy with a grenade launcher was one rifleman less.
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I always have one Grenade Launcher- its one of the most tricky weapons in the game notice where are the beams and plasma bolts comming from- often its a window higher than ground level. Put some grenades through it and even if you dont kill alien inside you will greatly weaken him- on a mission with 2 tamans on the rooftop above me i sent them some grenades from a launcher (very difficult to score a direct hit while standing on the ground) and guess what happened? One Taman started running and the other ripped him open with his Kerrblade. Next grenade finished off the remaining one. With some practise you can send grenades above covers used by enemy- like cars, fences, furniture(yes, it is possible to use plasma grenades from GL indoors)
I dont like the rocket launcher- Its usage is very limited and i simply prefer to use a sniper or aditional SMG- also the ammo size limits the usage of RL as its difficult to give rocketman any other weapon if you want him to have some ammo.
Lasers are great-especially heavy ones. The bolters are somehow inacurate, and use strange shaped ammo- fits only into belt since i tend to put medkits into holsters
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I love this thread, it makes me feel good about all the work I've put into UFO:AI over the years. I'm really pleased that so many people are finding so many different ways to play and succeed at the game, all equally valid and well-reasoned.
Regards,
Winter
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Nevasith,
For those hell-bent on not using the GL: the roof top situation is indeed very tough.
option 1: get clost to the wall, try to toss in a gas grenade - may not work much above 2nd floor.
option 2: SMG or MG fire at that window in general - it should bother the bad guys enough that you can get close in and start clearing the building. Imperfect, I know.
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Its also good idea to stick to the wall- in most situations there will be no angle to shoot you-than get in and rip him with SMG from point blank, but i if i can take him down before anyone gets hurt- why not?
Sometimes its also good idea to put a sniper on a close building and set him to full reaction.
This way o got past the mission with river- long fire exchange from opposite sides untill i got SMG, plasma and GL there to clear out the nests
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all true
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May I ask whether its better to go with MGs or assaults. MGs seem to give a higher probability of hitting with more shots compared to assaults. In addition, assualts only work at close or mid-range, and at mid-range, its rather ineffective.
I'm thinking about going with 2 4-man teams, 1 assault, 1 MG, 1 sniper and 1 GL for each each. How's that?
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MG is a heavy weapon while assault riffle is assault (surprisingly:P). MG is good weapon on medium to long range (highly inaccurate though) In one mission i kept MG gunner in a window and held laid heavy reaction fire on area where bad guys tried to move- killed them before assault team got there. Id advocate against assault rifle at all- dont know why, but in current deb version its totally useless. Low accuracy terrible damage, and poor range. Go for lasers as soon as possible- actually heavy lasers are one of my favourites- i have at least 2 in every squad. HL is also another reason to use MG- training heavy weapons for future toys
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I see. Thanks for clarifying. But at close range, full auto from an assault is bound to get a kill. GLs and snipers do this at long-range while assault moves in for the kill, if there's any left. Whatever objections, that's basically what urban combat is like, unless we just "Shock and Awe". Also, I don't get how the training works. So if I use assault weapons, assault skill rises, that's simple. But what about speed and health? How does the increase work?
I'm thinking about going Heavy laser for my next game (I've completed the game once and going to try again under hard mode). In terms of accuracy and damage, they seem to be quite popular.
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EchizenR - two 4-man teams is exactly how I tend to split them. The only thing I do is make sure that GL guys carry SMG's as well - if they need to clear a house, it is handy. Plus, once I discover gas grenades, they give up GL and use their now-developed HE skill to lob gas greandes a lot, while SMG becomes primary weapon.
The MG and, eventually, HL are both very good weapons. Sniper - no comment. The assault rifles bridges the gap between high range and close range. As you said, it can shoot from afar, or clear rooms as needed. Once laser rifles (eventually particle rifles) come in - that assault skill is great.
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right- one thing i forgot is the SMG- great weapon for short range combat. Assault rifle never worked for me though and in early game my storm troopers use ONLY SMG while supported by snipers
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Nevasith, that is probably a pretty good idea. Unless the Assault skill is way better, the SMG is probably the better weapon, since Assault Rifle is mediocre at high range at best.
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Nevasith, that is probably a pretty good idea. Unless the Assault skill is way better, the SMG is probably the better weapon, since Assault Rifle is mediocre at high range at best.
Maybe you didn't notice, but you can set reaction fire modality for all kind of weapons.
For example, you can set to use 3-shots-bursts instead of single shot in the reaction fire for assault rifle, and that way assault weapons become more useful.
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Sorry, I did not catch how reaction fire was relevant to what I was saying? I was talking about inferior combination of accuracy and damage which was brought up earlier.
Thank you for the reminder - yes, I am aware of multiple reaction fire modes and do use them.
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SMG was and is one of the most, if not the most powerful and useful weapon overall, even when considering 'advanced' weaponry. Completely overpowered. Even at longer ranges, its volume of fire compensates for its spread.
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full auto has even a chance of taking down an ortonok with a single burst
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In my opinion, armor shrug values need to be implemented soon; by "shrug" I mean a raw value that is taken off the top of any damage of the specified type on a per-hit basis. Low damage-per-hit weapons would be diminished at range, as they should, while high-damage single-hit weapons would regain more of their usefulness.
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Also, I don't get how the training works. So if I use assault weapons, assault skill rises, that's simple. But what about speed and health? How does the increase work?
Anyone able to help here?
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I believe the wiki describes how stats grow...not 100% sure what of all that is omplemented, though. Should let the devs answer that
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The only information i'm aware of is here: http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Skills/Improvement (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Skills/Improvement).
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The only information i'm aware of is here: http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Skills/Improvement (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Skills/Improvement).
The 2.3 info is very handy but neglects to say how many points are needed to earn an increase.
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The increase is a power over the total amount of points you have earned. See this (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=2254.0) thread for more info.
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Most important rule I've learned: as opportunity fire sucks, keep on moving. Except for snipers, who have superior range and can stay far behind so enemy can't hit them, but snipers can hit the enemy. Plus mass your cqb troops.
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Best poll ever.
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These unique tactics I previously read made me form my ideal tactic that I will share here:
1th - drop troops "entranch" for every angle off attack to react
2th - when the area is clear I form 2 groups of 4 men/women like this:
2 -> front SMG's (SMG does kick a.. in general as it react a lot)
1 -> following assault trooper for heavier support fire (later they carry a bolter)
1 ->sniperist for a long range and safe "one shot-kill" support, sometimes follow and sometimes on the roof
Everyone has 2 granades (they are realy handy often) 1 flash bang (just in case) and one smoke bomb.
Everyone has a medikit so the group keep the push even at giving a first aid.
Everyone has a knife except sniperists who carry Pistols in holster for close encounter (which is rare)
For me 4 soldiers formation or 3 is a minimum for a safe reaction and elimination of even multiple encounters with an enemy. It asure the long carrier and expirienced soldiers and the map is not so big to require more then 2 squads. Also the best armour should go first to a front SMG soldiers as a shield for backup support.
Also rare or never enter a short corridors where the enemy more likely react first. If possible, always remain in wide area with rapid fire company =)
Also an angle at the door, window, box makes you a harder target to aim at so should be use at any time.
In general, that's all of my tactics that statisticly have been the most successful for me. ;D
And a word of a advice: If you must, shoot first. Then shoot more later :P
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5 soldiers get an all-purpose "assault" loadout - first it was assault rifles and combat armor, now it's bolter rifles and nanocomposite armor. If I'm short on good soldiers and I have someone with good close but everything else terrible, I'll give that person a shotty instead, or have them John Woo it with two plasma pistols.
1 soldier gets the rocket launcher, 1 soldier gets the MG, 1 soldier gets a sniper rifle.
Everyone gets a medikit, 2 frags, a smoke grenade and a flashbang.
I divide my people up into groups no smaller than two and no greater than four, depending on the way the map is spread out and the kind of terrain they're going to encounter between where they are and where they're going.
My first objective is to set up a "front line:" I park my assaulters literally in a line, under cover or in shadows if possible, that creates a huge killzone in front of them. Everyone saves multi-shot reaction fire. I plan the route my rocket launcher and sniper will take to get to high ground and try to keep them behind the front line, in positions where they'll be useful along the way.
Once I've established a front line, where I know for certain there are aliens on one side and not the other, I just work my way across the map, eating up territory and killing baddies until the last alien(s) are cornered in an obvious location. I swing it so that there's never fewer than two soldiers with a line of sight on every possible place an alien might come from.
Aliens are terrible shots, so I'm a huge fan of drawing them out of cover and into prolonged, long-range firefights. By an absurd twist of fate, my MG soldier is a great shot, so between him, the sniper, the rocket launcher, and a prolific use of nades, those fights always end in my favor.
Another favorite is to get the stupid aliens to prairie-dog out of one door of a building, trying to pick off one of my guys who's in partial cover, while two assaulters are creeping up to the back door, then either nade the back door or just burst in and shoot them from behind.
This tactic produces lots of injured soldiers, but few deaths.
I generally ignore areas where civilians are walking from, because I figure if there were aliens there, the civilians would be dead already.
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for the people playing a dev release I have a question.
Do you use bolters as backup sniper weapons and the coilgun? I use the coilgun as my main sniping weapon It seems the bolter has a low hit chance when sniping (could of been my dude's skill).
I like the idea of having a long range sniper/assault weapon. Thoughts?
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for the people playing a dev release I have a question.
Do you use bolters as backup sniper weapons and the coilgun? I use the coilgun as my main sniping weapon It seems the bolter has a low hit chance when sniping (could of been my dude's skill).
I like the idea of having a long range sniper/assault weapon. Thoughts?
Captain Bipto, i know how u feel.
I actively follow the dev 2.3 version. Now still too.
I used to think bolters are good, until i researched the laser then coilgun. Now i love my coil guns.
IMO, coil guns are excellent main snipes, no question asked.
As of yesterday's built, R23462, it seemed geever, mattn and BTAxis' team have gotten the reaction fire to work again. If so, it would seem that bolter will be my main reaction fires. I would set it at probably triple fire mode (for my assaulters). It works wonder at range 250 - and it has 16 rounds, cheap to produce too. Just make sure he / she is in prone (crouch) position to increase accuracy.
Maybe i share my team's mode, then u will understand.
8 Men.
2 leaders - Usually carrying coilguns.
2 Point snipers - covering my leaders with coils.
2 assaulters - Usually carry solid bolters. (with 2 stun rods)
1 Machine gunner - woot! 250range with 25 rounds deadly cover fire.
1 EOD - well, whats a team w/o missile, rocket support? This is him. His secondary wpn? Well, either sub-machine (250 range again) or stun rods.
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Odie,
thank you for the reply,
Dev ver is the only ver I like to use I have been able to use reaction fire (unless the version you are talking about increased accuracy) and that was not a big issue...
I think perhaps the coilgun should have three modes...aimed (most acc), snap (2nd most acc) and two fire (3rd most acc, best dmg). Using two fire would force the sniper to "waste" tu reloading and may preclude them from firing on rxn that turn (rookies suxor). Coilguns are dangerous to use in practice because if one of the coils is even out of tune a wee bit, that can lead to catastrophic failure...but i think it could handle two rapid shots? I am no physicist, I just hang out with and bounce ideas for the game off of them.
What I meant was I like the idea of having a decent assault/sniper weapon (i.e. the bolter) and are concerned it is not that good. This really is a balancing issue that will be taken care of when the game is finished, until then it is the realm of the modder (not me ???)
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What I meant was I like the idea of having a decent assault/sniper weapon (i.e. the bolter) and are concerned it is not that good. This really is a balancing issue that will be taken care of when the game is finished, until then it is the realm of the modder (not me ???)
We are planning to thave a request thread in the moding section. Try to articulate your balancing ideas and we can provide you with the appropriate file changes.
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Odie,
thank you for the reply,
Dev ver is the only ver I like to use I have been able to use reaction fire (unless the version you are talking about increased accuracy) and that was not a big issue...
I think perhaps the coilgun should have three modes...aimed (most acc), snap (2nd most acc) and two fire (3rd most acc, best dmg). Using two fire would force the sniper to "waste" tu reloading and may preclude them from firing on rxn that turn (rookies suxor). Coilguns are dangerous to use in practice because if one of the coils is even out of tune a wee bit, that can lead to catastrophic failure...but i think it could handle two rapid shots? I am no physicist, I just hang out with and bounce ideas for the game off of them.
What I meant was I like the idea of having a decent assault/sniper weapon (i.e. the bolter) and are concerned it is not that good. This really is a balancing issue that will be taken care of when the game is finished, until then it is the realm of the modder (not me ???)
Hey Cap!
I know exactly wat you meant by an assault/sniper rifle.
Looking at military standards, my personal feel is that weapons are heading in the right direction.
Afterall, bolter is an early stage weapon - which means it should not be that good. :P And its flaw comes out fast when meeting harder and better equipped aliens.....
What we have at best now are the coil guns and laser rifles (super hard and accurate) though i would still classify em as mid stage / primitive.
I would look forward to another mid stage bolter, while final stage weapons should be very specialised.
What i meant are at end stage adv wpns, it should be specialised - i.e. Specialised powerful assault mid/close range, specialised sniper rifles, specialised long range mortar-like weapon, specialised everything. :P
Afterall, in my army days, i use specialised GPMG (area suppressants), specialised sniper rifles like (Sniper Rifles Listing (http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm)) and my favorite SAW (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m249.htm) (I was trained to kill @200 metres using this with 100% accuracy in 40 shots shoot. :P)
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And here I thought the purpose of a machine gun was pretty well defined...heh heh.
One thing that always gets me in sci-fi are aliens whose defenses trump just about anything humanity can throw at them...but then...just when it looks like humanity is on the brink of defeat...we pull through and turn the aliens weaponry back on them! Completely ignoring the fact that the aliens would be able to defend themselves the best against their OWN weaponry.
That is what I like about this game.
I agree that bolter weapons and coilguns represent the humans' clunky attempt to adapt to a new enemy. I like that the coilgun hits hard and has two shots. I really have yet to fall in love with the bolter though. I'd rather use the missile launcher, if I hit a target I am sure it is gonna die...the bolter seems less accurate and definitely not at lethal.
Perhaps that is not a bad thing, after all the bolter attempts to be both a sniper and assault weapon...so instead of specializing it does two things badly.
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And here I thought the purpose of a machine gun was pretty well defined...heh heh.
*Snip*
Perhaps that is not a bad thing, after all the bolter attempts to be both a sniper and assault weapon...so instead of specializing it does two things badly.
Well, if we look at one of the VERY old original roadmap of the research, we do have an advance bolter rifle in plan. Though i dunno whats the development of that yet. HEHE..
*Poke Poke developers*.
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In version 2.2.1 my favourite weapon is sniper rifle. Range 250 and damage 120, nothing else to say. All of my troopers are equipped with: sniper rifle, medikit, night visor (not active in version 2.2.1), stunner (when available).
I make squad of two soldiers, moving carefully to maintein the necessary point for the reaction fire.
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My usual squad:
1 Flamer
1 Micro-Shotgun
3-4 Bolters
1 Coilgun
1-2 Heavy Lasers
The flamer and micro shotgun are great for clearing out spaceships with multiple aliens still inside.
Not sure why noone seems to like the bolter. At ranges of less than 15 squares where I tend to engage the enemy they are quite accurate enough, especially with an experienced soldier, and the good armour penetration keeps them deadly well into the game. For sniping they are clearly not as good as sniper rifles or coil guns but that's not my style really anyway. I do like them to work in pairs though or to work with other specialists as the reaction fire is rarely sufficient to deal with more than one alien.
I find the coilgun is most useful in the first round before the enemy dive for cover. It's quite good for area denial on some maps too but I find that if I rely on snipers too much then the civvies get killed too easily.
The Heavy Laser(s) are quite adaptable. They tend to be used to guard the backs of my assault troops or to keep aliens pinned down while my other troops close in for the kill.
Playing in this style I rarely lose a civilian. I also don't use medikits as I prefer to finish the battle quickly and get them back to base.
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My usual squad:
1 Flamer
1 Micro-Shotgun
3-4 Bolters
1 Coilgun
1-2 Heavy Lasers
The flamer and micro shotgun are great for clearing out spaceships with multiple aliens still inside.
Not sure why noone seems to like the bolter. At ranges of less than 15 squares where I tend to engage the enemy they are quite accurate enough, especially with an experienced soldier, and the good armour penetration keeps them deadly well into the game. For sniping they are clearly not as good as sniper rifles or coil guns but that's not my style really anyway. I do like them to work in pairs though or to work with other specialists as the reaction fire is rarely sufficient to deal with more than one alien.
I find the coilgun is most useful in the first round before the enemy dive for cover. It's quite good for area denial on some maps too but I find that if I rely on snipers too much then the civvies get killed too easily.
The Heavy Laser(s) are quite adaptable. They tend to be used to guard the backs of my assault troops or to keep aliens pinned down while my other troops close in for the kill.
Playing in this style I rarely lose a civilian. I also don't use medikits as I prefer to finish the battle quickly and get them back to base.
Oooo, sounds like to me u r using 2.3 dev version? (coilguns rox)
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My squad layout:
3 SMGs with grenades and gas grenades
3 GLs with flashbangs
2 Snipers with flashbangs and grenades
My strategy is to cover as much land and/or as many choke points as possible with my snipers. Then start advancing with SMGs supported by GLs. I really like grenade launchers because they can do incredible damage in a turn and shoot behind corners/walls. I once shot over 120 grenades in one battle into one building. I won that battle.
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Emmanuel Goldstein here.
Frankly, I prefer to equip my troops as best fits the terrain.
For example, in a wide, flat area with little cover, half of my team is snipers and the other half assault-rifle troops. (Well, that's the best loadout I've found thus far - I've only been playing the game since last Saturday, and not particularly often. It is fun, though!)
However, in an environment where I'm likely going to be doing a lot of close-quarters work, I equip my troops with weapons that work best at close range: submachineguns, machine pistols, and/or grenade launchers (though I keep a sniper or two on hand just in case there are some fairly tall buildings to use as vantage points).
Just my $0.02.
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I'm still wedded to fire and movement in pairs; bounding overwatch, shoot and scoot, whatever you want to call it. Protecting the civilians is a priority, and is much easier than it looks when when you can stun rod them so that they don't go wandering around drawing fire. And I don't clear a building by firing volleys of grenades into it. Next priority is force preservation; I don't go in assuming that I'm going to lose guys. It's not realistic and if the UFO:AI story line tracks XCOM you'll need lots and lots of veteran soldiers as time goes on.
So far as weapons are concerned I avoid the SMG because I think it's overpowered. I'm not a big fan of firing rockets at individuals, but it would be cool if when you hit, say, an Ortnok with a rocket if the Ortnok would brew up and a smaller alien would bail out and scurry for cover.
I still wish that the game allowed for the two most logical positions in a firefight: Prone and In A Hole.
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I do know there has been talk about adding prone as a possible position, IIRC when the new models and their animations are done.
What's "In A Hole"?
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"In A Hole" means...well...in a hole, a prepared fighting position. Call it "Prone Plus" :D
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Speaking about it, it would be nice to have the possiblity to "deploy" machine gun/sniper rifles on bipod, creating a stationary gun platform. Of course, such thing would take a lot of TUs-like 25...
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On the other hand, that could fit the "suppression fire" some people have wanted. Simply put, give things like machineguns either a preparation choise for a reaction fire bonus or a simple all-around RF bonus that (dramatically) lowers their TU usage for reaction shooting. This gives them more shots against the target and while not really suppression fire it should make the enemy even less inclined to travel through the "RF+" firing zone.
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Im speaking of my v2.2.1 squad my squad consists of maybe 3 or 4 "sniper" armed with laser rifles. I have 1 flamethrower and the other 3 have a gun that they are best suited to use like one of my troops assault skill is 25 or up hell get a AR and a guy that has 27 in heavy weapons? Gets a bazooka which is extremely good at taking out groups of two or three enemies. I usualy play on easy/very easy since i like to have as little challenges as possible whatever. My guys usually all have stun rods and gas grenades i replace all frags with plasma grenades as soon as i reaserch them and give them alot of extra ammo i produce and find 95% of everything i make in the game.
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I am using 2.1.
I use:
-4 flames
-4 laser rifles
I find that many weapons reaction fire does not work reliably. The reason why I use flamethrowers is that the reaction fire always works[plus the alien is always toast as long as multiple reaction fire is on].
My dilemma is that I have found many weapons to have extremely unreliable reaction fire. Is this normal?
Do the SMGs have good reaction fire?
As to general tactics:
I tend to lose a man or so every mission, but flamethrowers dont need high stats, they just need a gun and ammo. I secure the area and any large firing lines with my snipers, and then the flames sweep building by building. Nice and simple and quick. Lately, I have been augmenting the flames with stun rods, but they dont have solid reactions.
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laser rifle, power armour and a couple of grenades for everyone is the strategy I used in the old XCOM game, saving that e-115. The lasers were light so movement range was increased, cheap, profitable and they were good for RF too. Laser Rifles in the hands of veterans were deadly from great distances. Once lots of spare stores and soldier stats were built up I might switch to heavy plasmas which weighed about the same as an AR, IIRC and were fairly necessary for the endgame or leaders.
In UFOAI, I'm not sure yet, i think the grenade launchers are good but I really like the flame throwers. tbh, I haven't been able to play through yet, it seems much harder than XCOM, which is a good thing as XCOM got a bit tedious when you were forced to defend or attack a base every 2 minutes toward the endgame or else lose support. Going through the motions, clearing the huge maps and looking for the last hider which could take hours if done properly. For those who don't remember the game, it was scary to lose soldiers and the battlescape no save bug made it even more so. Its a shame there wont be any attacking the commander from a newly created hole in his wall though. You just had to love firing that blaster around corners and then dumping as much HE as you could through the hole and waiting for the screams.
The best tactic I've found is to keep covered. Dont get into a shoot-out with ET, sneak up on him, snipe him or explode him but don't be standing in his sight, or near him at the end of your turn without proper RF cover. I like to jump in to a building, take a shot at ET and run out. His turn, he comes out to shoot back and 2 others, with flame throwers are waiting against the wall with full TU and already facing the door (at a right-angle of fire to avoid the embarrassment of melting your comrade) resulting in a well done alien and any friends standing behind him.
I do like the auto battle feature but I think there should be a trade between the outcome odds and the value of goods recovered. Perhaps making you fight for earning money or allowing the skipping of battles relatively safely; precision airstrikes to kill the menace with no ufo or item recovery for example. This would alleviate some of the aforementioned tedium, IMO leaving the balance up to the player.
There used to be some decent strategy guides about for XCOM which would be largely applicable here.
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assualt rifles, SMGs, and grenade launchers are the bomb for me. Snipers, flamers, and every other weapon don't deliver.
Also have everyone pack medikits. That can make a difference if they travel in pairs.
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i kill all aliens on the 1st turn. Guess how.
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New game, so only conventional weapons available, not even lasers. Most kills fall to soldiers with GL, SMG, or flamethrower. Add sniper or assault rifles for extended-range, and I call it a well-rounded plan. Grenade launchers get a machine pistol sidearm (one-handed FTW). 3-round airburst is just insane. 15 TUs is a lot, but it's pretty close to a guaranteed kill. Machinegun is great on the first turn if you have a favourable position, but thereafter is useless since TU usage is too much to lug it around or engage with RF, and aliens never end a turn in the open.
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i kill all aliens on the 1st turn. Guess how.
That'll take a lot of grenade launchers and TUs. Or a mod with a nuke launcher.
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Sadly, you're wrong. I cheat.
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hehe
i can kill all the enemies in the first round, even without cheating. In campain game, Fighter battle, when there are only 5 enemies.
i usually have:
- 3 snipers (with regular sniper rifles or 2 sniper rifles + 1 coilgun) - great for long ranged shots even in open fields (by taking enemies down from a long distance, so that they have less chances to hit my guys when they fire)
- 1 grenadier - with launcher !!! awsome fighter. i even consider to use 2 guys with grenade launchers (marvelous to kill enemes over an obstacle, behind a corner or through very thight spaces - also time grenade is excellent); he kills many aliens (along with the Heavy weapon guy).
- 1 heavy weapon guy - with machine gun (this guy usualy kills most enemies and gets the best promotions); i mostly use him with Full auto fire, taking care to get as many aliens as possible in a line (and kills 2-3-4 with only 1 shot)
- 2 assault - but i don't really find then so useful: no asssault weapon is very useful: laser rifles (one of the few full assault skill weapon) - even if is very accurate and long range, it inflicts very low damages; plasma rifles: good damage with burst or full auto, but innacurate; needle gun - the best assault weapon probably, but if you aim you need Sniper skill and if you use cannonade, you have to be very close, or else you mostly miss; and if you are so close, you better use a plasma blade instead...
- 1 close/fast unit - but also i doubt of his use....
PS: i don't use a medic since all my troops have a medikit and they can quicly heal closer units.
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may be more advanced levels need more advanced tactics but i find the basic laser gun teams very dangerous.
snipers are nice but before you get in range i can score 2x3 shots and stay at safe distance...
btw the most dangerous weapon in game is grenades, i used it ones, neddless to say the grenade flew at some wired arc and blew my soldier instead after which the whole enemy team rained me with granades (i never seen them use them before)
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I'm runing the stable Windows version, and I find sniper rifles nearly useless, these guys can't hit the side of a barn with anything except spray and pray fire.:P So far, riot shotguns and assault rifles have gotten me the most kills.
In a side not, I'm not sure it it's a bug or not, but neither smoke or flash-bangs are showing up in the buy section, is this just the fact that these haven't been integrated into the game yet?
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In a side not, I'm not sure it it's a bug or not, but neither smoke or flash-bangs are showing up in the buy section, is this just the fact that these haven't been integrated into the game yet?
They were in previous versions but they don't work in the current one IIRC. They'll be re-implemented when they're fixed.
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Ah, thanks.
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First base is turned into research facility (6 labs in the end, workshop demolished)
Second is a factory (used to get basic equipment asap, than to dissemble alien ships) - 6 workshops, no missile defenses (but 4 external), no ships.
3rd is more balanced, with some extra storage space, another drop-ship with "backup" team, single laboratory, workshop and alien storage.
4+ are just used to stop alien ships (interceptors, base defenses, a workshop or two to maintain production of ammo for my soldiers).
My combat teams are composed of:
a) 4-5 laser weapon users (any, but rifles work best)
b) 1-2 GL with few extra plasma blades
c) 1-2 Railgun
I set team a) in a far, but very visible spot, to attract fire and get some reaction kills eventually, while being relatively safe (sometimes some healing is required, but rarely ever any soldier dies).
Team b), hidden behind corners, is used to stop enemies from flanking, and to do final charge. They also serve as medics during long-range combat, or can help with RL (in backpacks).
Team c) usually gets to the building / behind the wall etc, and kills everything in range trough the walls, using infrared goggles.
For some reason (lousy path finding?) some enemies won't leave ships/buildings. Some also play a variant of hide-and-shoot without actually ever shooting (lack of TU). Also, quite often, they keep trying to shoot you trough the wall. That is when snipers/railgunners come handy.
I've noticed that AI engages in long-range combat first with ~half of the units, than sends some to flank/rear your soldiers, so my game style is just a countermeasure.
Until strength is implemented, every soldier carries a first aid kit, at least one plasma blade, spare ammo and an alternative weapon in the backpack (stun rod for a), RL for b), laser rifle for c) ).
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My tactics??? Well at the simplest it is to kill every last alien on the map without caring about collateral damage ;D
Then seriously: I personally like sniper rifles... ...a LOT! I usually search for aliens and get my snipers to kill them... Though there is nothing stopping me for going all out close quarters... I usually improvice on the field... It has served me well so far! :D
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Mostly depends on the soldiers I can hire. Generally run 6 soldier teams, 4 soldier teams for base defense. One is my explosives expert, normally armed with a grenade launcher. If he's decent at heavy, he gets flechete grenades too. If not, then it's a pistol and a knife or PB. One is normally a sniper for long range fire support. I might get one close weapons specialist, emphasizing hp and speed, using smg's or pistols plus melee weapons. Course, that one is a might, pending on selection again. Otherwise, the rest are split between assault and heavy specialists. Generally go for more assaults than heavy, but do try to get at least one heavy. Sniper starts with the sniper rifle, then upgrades as they become available. Usually go to bolter rifle just for the fact that it can improve assault and is nice for 'in houses', later it gets upgraded. The assault guys upgrade from rifles to lasers, bolters, and plasmas pending on each individual soldier's strength. And also to give me a variety for dealing with different alien types. Same with the heavy hitters.
Generally try to avoid collateral damage, have even used a close person as an assassin, sneaking up behind and 'knifing' aliens from behind (which is somehow satisfying...). As for additional gear, heavies and snipers have IR goggles. All carry medkits, just in case. Also they all have one to two spare clips of ammo pending on shots/clip. Any leftover belt/holster space is filled with grenade fun. For those times when 18 TU's is too many but 11 TU's (2 to hand, 9 to lob/roll) is just fine.
Usually split them into two groups of three or three groups of two, pending on map. Explosives/Assault, Heavy/Close or Assault, and the remaining two. If it looks like the mission might be dicey, then I'll throw in two more soldiers aptly renamed to Cannon Fodder 1 and Cannon Fodder 2. Honestly should call them Meatshield 1 and 2 instead. ;D
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Sadly, you're wrong. I cheat.
A nuke launcher would be cheating.
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Another useful tactic... when one of my personnel obtains sight of an alien, I immediately send out 2 guys with stun rods round the geoscape - to outflank the alien / attack from behind. I don't know if it's deliberate (and correct) AI but the alien never seems to know it's being sneaked up on. It always concentrates on attacking the human right in front of it. My only gripe is you can't seem to stun bloodspiders (maybe it's already possible but I've never succeeded - has anyone ever managed it?).
Slight tangent but relevant to my point above: From what I see, bloodspiders do all the harvesting of humans. So capturing a live one should in theory be a MUST for XCOM research.... if it's not already possible, maybe it can be developed so XCOM could research something like Alien Nutrition. And from that, presumably a new weapon - alien poison (which gives you ammo that when you hit an alien, decreases their hit points at a faster rate than a normal injury...)?
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Well, there is a pretty obvious reason why you cannot catch a bloodspider "alive". ;)
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I'm fairly sure I managed to stun and capture a bloodspider in the last game I finished, using the same methods as any other alien, just more of the same - lots of flashbombs, double-charged stunrods.
I always run the full eight troops, usually two snipers, one machinegunner, one grenade launcher, one SMG close-assault specialist, the last three rifles. I tend to use the Bolter as soon as I can, rarely the laser or plasma rifles. Bolters hit harder than lasers, and I like the fact that you can just buy ammo, unlike the plasma rifles.
Later in the game I'll often equip one "sniper" with a Heavy Laser, and as my teams get better I'll often drop the sniper rifles entirely in favour of more bolters, which has that awesome dual-mode, plus the triple-shot for close work. Machine gun and grenade launcher often stay right through the game, because none of the more advanced weapons quite do what they do.
Plasma pistol for backup weapons on the GL & MG troops, but I stick with SMG for my close-up guy until the particle beam pistol is available; the plasma pistol's magazine is too small for routine use! (it seems to be the only weapon in the game you can fire dry in one round...) I'm also all about the range, I like nearly everyone to be able to "reach out and touch someone", so the plasma weapons just don't cut it, nor do shotguns/flamethrowers/etc - although I do keep those around for base defense loadouts.
Standard nominal field team is MG + one sniper as a long-range engagement team, and two "assault" teams of three, one built around the GL trooper and the other around the SMG/close specialist. All very nominal, of course, as with eight bodies there's never enough to go around...
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In fact bloodspiders (and hovernets) are immune to flashbangs (and stun gas obviously) they also have a VERY high resistance to electric stun weapons (at least in 2.5 I'm not sure if that made into 2.4 as well), so you won't deal more than 1 stun point per attack to them AND even if you manage to stun one, the game culls robotic aliens (or at least bloodspiders) upon arriving at the base, you are only allowed to keep actually *live* aliens in containment.
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I actually tried to capture one in the cost of half of my team.