UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Tactics => Topic started by: Doctor J on March 05, 2008, 05:55:38 pm
-
Those of you that use dedicated medics, do you chose who will be a medic before or after assigning other combat roles? Right now i hand out weapons first, based on soldier skills. The last two will probably have skills of 14 - 16, so i just have them carry a one-handed weapon and a medikit. I am contemplating changing that to pick the two fastest individuals for medics, then handing out other weapons from there.
-
I choose at least two smg users before choosing the medic.
Usually, I prefer the medic to have at least a good speed and good skills in close combat, but if I can't find anyone with these characteristics, I use one at random, or either don't use a medic in the group.
-
In real life, I understand the concept of a dedicated medic. In the game though, I still don't understand the concept. It's easier for me to either kill them before they kill me, then worry about the medkit, or ,sense I typically travel in packs, retreat two units behind cover and use the medkits.
I can't see the use of the half-step of a single handed weapon, and a med kit that see little use during the actual firefighting.
-
"Different strokes for different folks!" Since i started using a dedicated medic, the only KIAs i've had were a few unlucky individuals who took too many hits before they could hide. OTOH, i've had some good instances where [in my last mission, for example] the machine gunner was able to stay put and keep firing while the medic behind him kept applying patches. The other issue is that if the medikit is not already in hand, you probably won't be able to apply a patch until the turn *after* you get behind cover. Until the healing is actually needed, i can use the lightly armed medics to verify that buildings in my rear area are actually clear of bad guys.
-
In real life, I understand the concept of a dedicated medic. In the game though, I still don't understand the concept. It's easier for me to either kill them before they kill me, then worry about the medkit, or ,sense I typically travel in packs, retreat two units behind cover and use the medkits.
Just try it once and then reply to this post again.
Ufo:ai is a tactical game, and tactics is not going out with as many weapons you can carry and shoot at every direction :)
-
Just my 2p -- I always have a dedicated Medic. Usually, the soldier with the worst Accuracy+Weapon skill combo :P The Medic is given a one-handed weapon, usually the Heavy Pistol as they can snipe with it from the back lines (pistol Aimed Shots are cheap.)
While you could argue that they are a wasted unit, the immediacy of being able to apply the medikit far outweighs extra (but poorly-aimed!) firepower for me. There's hardly ever *that* many targets to shoot at anyway ;)
-
I usually give every soldier a medikit. I will probably carry on doing this until penalties for carrying too much weight are implemented.
-
I've been using two Medics before the availability of nano armour, after which one is fine. I've discovered that if i put Laser Pistols in the hands of my Medics as soon as they are available, they are now able to provide longer range covering fire than the troops using standard weapons. I leave them on multi shot reaction fire until healing is needed. I replayed Rom last night, and the Medics got a kill each.
-
Just try it once and then reply to this post again.
Ufo:ai is a tactical game, and tactics is not going out with as many weapons you can carry and shoot at every direction :)
So done, btw, more then once. Staying at range, and advancing. My number of injuries increased as well as deaths. With fewer and weaker guns to bare they had longer to return fire. I stand by my tactics of using a heavy laser from beyond the alien's effective range range, and everyone having a med kit & secondary weapon.
-
So done, btw, more then once. Staying at range, and advancing. My number of injuries increased as well as deaths. With fewer and weaker guns to bare they had longer to return fire. I stand by my tactics of using a heavy laser from beyond the alien's effective range range, and everyone having a med kit & secondary weapon.
About your comment about the half arse hand gun option. Get a laser pistol for your medic and he'll do fine... I use my medic as a conservative scout, mostly to spot for my grenade launchers. Ever since getting the laser pistol (BTW make sure the medic has a good close combat skill...) I have used him a couple times for flanking, but only if I am confident i have the aliens on the run. Your idea of a med kit for everyone is a reasonable one, just represents a different school of thought thats all. I just like having a guy with the kit on hand instead of shuffling thru the inventory...lets me load up my guys with extra nades too.
-
Hm, ok, It's still lost on me, and I'm still looking for why it's topic.
My reaction to close range combat in the late game is:
1. Plasma Blade = Dead Alien.
2. Dead trooper!
3. Grenade!
The aliens have devastatingly deadly close range attacks, and are not shy about using them. Truthfully, the Laser Rifle is a far better weapon the the Heavy Laser, the Heavy Laser just out preforms anything at range. On top of that, only on the higher difficulties do aliens have the aim to make use partial weapons at range.
I look at smaller arms, and think "Crud! I have to hug them to use this! So much for this rookie."
-
Lol. Just a different school of thought.
-
I usually give every soldier a medikit. I will probably carry on doing this until penalties for carrying too much weight are implemented.
this is what i do
then i try to keep my troops in pairs on the battlefield
-
I give every man a medikit so no need for medics just 2 guys supporting each other
-
Until there is a way for soldiers to gain a specialist advantage in healing, it just doesn't make sense to have dedicated combat medics - every soldier heals just as well as everyone else, but some fight better than others.
all my soldiers have medikits, but when one gets injured I usually pick the nearest soldier who either has the lowest hit rate, or the incorrect ranged weapon to make hitting unlikely to heal that soldier. The plan is that at some arbitrary point in time when I notice underperformers, I swap them out to base defence and swap in one of my other training squads (I have 5 squads of 8).
In the original UFO this really worked because the noncombat officers could still train, and they also continued being promoted. So my pen pushers could end up colonels etc - and somehow some of my biggest ranks came from retired combatants turned administrators / commanders -- which is how things work in real life, no?
-
[…] if the medikit is not already in hand, you probably won't be able to apply a patch until the turn *after* you get behind cover.
For a soldier with a two-hand-fire, one-hand-hold weapon, it's only an additional two TUs to pull a medkit from the holster. For one-hand-fire I generally prefer to have them have a weapon in each hand for better flexibility (plasma pistol and monoknife is a perennial combo, or plasma pistol and grenade).
~J
-
I tend to put a normal pistol and two mags in the holster and a medikit. I fill the belt with one Frag/Plasma Grenade, and the other three with Flashbangs.
-
High speed and high close combat, 1 per 5 combatants (so 2 for 10, etc) since I tend to split my team into 2 squads on maps.
- Pistol in one hand
- Medkit in the other
- Stungear in pack.
I still carry a medpack on each soldier, but it's handy to be able to patch someone up quickly when things are hot.
-
I still carry a medpack on each soldier, but it's handy to be able to patch someone up quickly when things are hot.
Again, though, "quickly" is 20 TUs instead of 22. You really find the savings that valuable?
~J
-
Again, though, "quickly" is 20 TUs instead of 22. You really find the savings that valuable?
~J
^This +1
I equip all my troops with a medkit in their holsters, and give them all two handed weapons otherwise. The rocket launcher is the only one who can't use a medkit without un-equipping his main weapon, but I've stopped using them in favour of grenade launchers.
Besides, any troop can get injured, and there's no way to know if the medic is going to be in the right place at the right time, so best to make everyone capable of it. Plus, medics can't heal themselves (unless I've been doing it wrong...)
I'd rather have the extra firepower, and prevent injuries through having more dead aliens :)
-
^This +1
I equip all my troops with a medkit in their holsters, and give them all two handed weapons otherwise. The rocket launcher is the only one who can't use a medkit without un-equipping his main weapon, but I've stopped using them in favour of grenade launchers.
Besides, any troop can get injured, and there's no way to know if the medic is going to be in the right place at the right time, so best to make everyone capable of it. Plus, medics can't heal themselves (unless I've been doing it wrong...)
I'd rather have the extra firepower, and prevent injuries through having more dead aliens :)
+2. I use the same tactic. It helps always having someone close by who can heal, and it's saved many a life. Plus, as you get down to the end of a mission, I usually try to heal everyone to full no matter what. It is much faster than having them heal in the hospital. Then it really helps to have a healing party with everyone.
-
+2. I use the same tactic. It helps always having someone close by who can heal, and it's saved many a life. Plus, as you get down to the end of a mission, I usually try to heal everyone to full no matter what. It is much faster than having them heal in the hospital. Then it really helps to have a healing party with everyone.
This definitely works the best for me too. Effective and flexible. I don't feel like planning any other tactical details until arriving at the battle scene. There I like to have maximum freedom in setting up the operation, e.g. starting 2, 3, or 4 units, counting 2 till 5 heads each. Keeping units not more than 1 till 1,5 moves apart, at any time, a soldier from one unit may join another unit that got into trouble. As long as everyone stays somewhere near anyone else, wounds can be healed early next turn, for the greater part. Wounds from alien reaction fire often the very same turn. While nobody gets hurt, all can wield weapons, quickly killing as much vermin as possible. (Panicked aliens do a lot less damage, so you want to see this happen rather sooner than later :D. If anyone gets hurt, they don't need to retreat to a medic. You gain in all cases.
P.S. Even the Machine Gunners carry a medikit in their belt and two spare magazines in their backpacks, since they rock without any side arms. ;D.
djivi
-
Still playing 2.4, but I'm going to try it with a 6/2 distrobution of combat to medic. Then I can operate in teams of four and clear the map while not getting too far from the safety of healing.
-
I equip all my troops with a medkit in their holsters, and give them all two handed weapons otherwise. The rocket launcher is the only one who can't use a medkit without un-equipping his main weapon, but I've stopped using them in favour of grenade launchers.
I do this too, but it has me wondering if this is something that should be "fixed"... Have you ever tried administering stuff from a First Aid kit while still holding an assault rifle or grenade launcher? Perhaps they should be changed to two-handed held and not just firing like the rocket launcher currently is, making the idea of a Combat Medic as originally described here more useful.
-
I do this too, but it has me wondering if this is something that should be "fixed"... Have you ever tried administering stuff from a First Aid kit while still holding an assault rifle or grenade launcher? Perhaps they should be changed to two-handed held and not just firing like the rocket launcher currently is, making the idea of a Combat Medic as originally described here more useful.
Hand-to-Ground is... one TU? And Ground-to-Hand is... three? It would add a little time and really only enforce the no-medic paradigm. As it is the only one handed guns are the starter pistol and the particle beam pistol (in 2.5, in earlier the laser pistol is decent damage and accurate).
Everyone with a med-kit is what I learned early in XCOM and it still applies today.
-
Hmm true... However, TU costs for moving things in and out of inventory spaces (including the ground) are in a script file, so I might look at modding it a bit for my own game. I know, deliberately making things more difficult for yourself is generally considered a biy weird these days, but hey I like a challenge! I'd like to combine it with a boost to Hospital recoery times but that value seems to be hard-coded.
-
I do this too, but it has me wondering if this is something that should be "fixed"... Have you ever tried administering stuff from a First Aid kit while still holding an assault rifle or grenade launcher? Perhaps they should be changed to two-handed held and not just firing like the rocket launcher currently is, making the idea of a Combat Medic as originally described here more useful.
But realism shouldn't just be enforced where it's inconvenient for the player. If it's important to be realistic about how many hands a medkit takes to apply, it should also be important to be realistic about the fact that an assault rifle or grenade launcher would be on a strap, enabling it to be "dropped" and recovered quickly and without detachment (so you can "drop", move, and then recover). So on and so forth.
~J
-
But realism shouldn't just be enforced where it's inconvenient for the player. If it's important to be realistic about how many hands a medkit takes to apply, it should also be important to be realistic about the fact that an assault rifle or grenade launcher would be on a strap, enabling it to be "dropped" and recovered quickly and without detachment (so you can "drop", move, and then recover). So on and so forth.
~J
Also true, but then you have the current problem in that pistol weapons are pretty much ignored as pointless because why use one when you can just use a rifle instead? The starting difference in soldier stats is generally negligible except for the odd exceptional recruit, using a weapon with an 18 skill doesn't seem to have much difference to using one with 23 and that range is more common than anything outside it.
-
For soldier, pistol is a backup weapon, and should be treated ingame as such IMHO. No need to force player to use it as a main weapon.
Also, considering the 20 TUs which are needed to use a medkit, it's easy to think that part of those are used to put the gun on strap and back in hands.
-
For soldier, pistol is a backup weapon, and should be treated ingame as such IMHO. No need to force player to use it as a main weapon.
What do you mean by "backup weapon"? I'm using pistols solely for few soldiers (not more then 2 in mission squad) with special task like capture alive alien (with gas grenade) or rescue others in difficult situation with plasma or frag grenades. Indirect fire is very useful sometimes. But mainly they are used to scout enemies.
As secondary weapon i'm using plasma blade. One touch - one kill. That's not like pistol - many shooting and zero result, alien alive.
Situations when i need "backup weapon" to replace primary i don't recall... But in such case there are aliens around. Kill one and get plasma rifle or what he had...
As to topic i equip all soldiers with medkit in holster. I don't see any gain to have a dedicated madic.
-
My coil gun users have a particle pistol as a "backup weapon" in case they run out of ammo (which is a very real possibility with that weapon), though that in itself is a tradeoff between having the backup pistol or having a medkit, or having 2 more coil shots.
My grenade launcher guy has one for close quarters where using a grenade would be detrimental to his long and short term health (though it could be argued that a particle pistol can be used as a primary weapon given its power and accuracy.)
Speaking of plasma blades, all my troops keep one of those in their holsters too, next to the medkit (yeah, they have to be careful which one they pull out :P). They are very good for when you discover a heavily armoured ortnok round the corner, but you don't have enough TU or troops to bring him down with regular fire. And for close encounters in general.
-
One situation I encountered was in a game where a UFO popped up just ahead of my returning dropship and shot it down and all the useful weapons were on board. I only had enough cash for a new drop ship, so I had to send my second team, which had been intended for a second base, with whatever weapons I had lying around, so they ended up with nothing more than pistols, SMG's and a single Machine Gun I had manufactured. It was surprisingly effective.
-
Also true, but then you have the current problem in that pistol weapons are pretty much ignored as pointless because why use one when you can just use a rifle instead? The starting difference in soldier stats is generally negligible except for the odd exceptional recruit, using a weapon with an 18 skill doesn't seem to have much difference to using one with 23 and that range is more common than anything outside it.
Pistols have two big things going for them: very low minimum TU usage and one-handed use. The latter in particular means you can have a different damage type in each hand—in 2.4 I often had soldiers with a laser pistol in one hand for ranged combat and a monoknife in the other for when they rounded a corner smack into a hostile. In 2.5 the plasma pistol is currently so good that a knife is no longer necessary, but a grenade in hand can be very handy (8 TUs instead of 10 to deploy). When particle beam pistols come onto the scene, plasma pistol+PBP becomes viable.
As for backup weapons, for most purposes I find that the machine pistol is the only pistol small enough to serve backup—and that's obsolete almost as soon as the game starts.
~J
-
I usually give every soldier a medikit. I will probably carry on doing this until penalties for carrying too much weight are implemented.
Same here. This way everyone's chances increase. I usually split my squad into two or three people exploring different areas. Each person turns into a dedicated medic. I mean the two TU's to move the medkit from the holster to the hand are nothing especially considering the fact that after applying the patch you won't be able to shoot anyway.
The way I see it, this allows me to split into three to four small squads who have high survival rate. I don't see how that would work with a dedicated medic. Most soldiers have around 30 TU's. Heal is 20. That gives the medic about four steps range. If you use only one or two medics you greatly limit their coverage area.
In my case, everyone is a medic and everyone comes out at full health at the end of a mission. That way I buy myself at least one or two successful (no dead operatives) automatic missions. Then when I get in, most of my soldiers are banged up from the automatic AI and I hold small "healing parties" where everyone heals everyone. To be honest, when I found out that I could do that, I sold all my hospitals. X-Com had it more realistic in the terms that medkits applied immediate help on the field but never removed the injuries for after the fight and the operatives still had to recover after a field injury. But then it is a hassle to always have a healthy squad. But I digress...
I am definitely on the "everyone is a medic" side of this debate. I really don't see the usefulness of a dedicated medic.