General > Discussion

Balancing smoke grenades

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Wolls:
1 - Applying a penalty to every shot which doesn't have a clear sight.

Absolutely.  We should have the ability to 'paint' a target with a scouting one but not have some dude firing blind just as accurately as if they were seeing what they fire at unless its electronically guided.. but as a part of team dynamics, we should be able to help each other out. 

2 - Making the AI a bit smarter, by giving them a small chance to fire a random shot at a smoke cloud if they don't see any other target

That is a little more difficult.  When you think smoke you think something that hides movement, not that a person hides in it but that they are hiding beyond it and using it to move.  I think Shevaars at least are willing to curb stomp some smoke hiding.. but making smoke less OP should have a greater effect on its current dependance.  I guess I am saying smoke diffuses LOS, and should always do so.  Otherwise you're balancing the game by having something not do something it would really do.. ( and the sole reason for its existence).. you'd be better off removing smoke completely.  The reason your throw up smoke is so that they other force could/will fire, but won't hit cause they can't see or at least have so far reduced odd of hitting that they are effectively firing blind.  It is the hiding in smoke part, sitting there that makes less sense and should be addressed.  Umm the current dev version I believe adds stun value and I havn't played with that yet.  Does anyone know how effective it is? 

Alternatively, if the Aliens are make to fire at smoke then they should always fire at smoke.. regardless of whether you are in it or not.  They always know where you are so this would take some coding.  But you could pop smoke, throw it and have the aliens shoot at it.  As a decoy tactic.  But when they fire, where do they fire?  Centre of mass? so pop two grenades and hide in the limits, or the left right edge of the smoke cloud.  ( Assuming the alien is in front.)  Otherwise they know where you are, always fire right at you and the smoke itself becomes meaningless.  The better idea seems to be like the stun damage, and suggestively move the player out of the smoke, or not to hiding in it in the first place.

MonkeyHead:
For me, the reason why smoke is such an essential thing to deploy is the alien "clairvoyance". AFAIK they know where to move to shoot you. Smoke removes this. If the aliens were less clairvoyant (preferably not at all), smoke would become less effective as soldiers on the move, uncovered or in partial cover would not be 99.9% guaranteed to become plasma magnets.

Wolls:
Aliens know where u are. You throw up smoke to dissolve LOS. 

Hiding in that smoke is a separate issue.

Like if they had no clairvoyance.. it would matter less.  Be less noticeable.  But that would not have any effect on the actual experience or power of simply being aBLE to hide ina smoke cloud.

Its not that ppl just now noticed how this works it becomes pop because it works so well in every/all situation.  Is there way to get smoke to have effect onlyl during that turn??? Like less than one turn.   It is effective during it and then blows away.  You cannot hide in it.  In a turn based game this seems complicated.

EDIT: WE know how it should work and take advantage of it. If it is OP then someother function has to keep or value against us taking advantage.. smoke provides an answer for clairvoyance so I don't get why thats a problem.. it works like it should.

Wolls:
2nd Thought: Am I arguing that smoke should never exist?  Or that it should have no use?
I think we should balance that use, that existence.  Your clairvoyance.. issue makes sense.. should it exist as it does? 

I am balancing against the end and it may just be easier to preempt it.  And that implies that RF is heavily.. or even just against you.  Or that the game should be more accepting of a total loss, in completely f'd conditions.

Nomad:
Just another one idea about smoke. Probably the most "realistic", but I don't imagine whether it is difficult to implement.
What if smoke could be semi-transparent? If there is only 1 square of smoke on LOS then an object has, say, 75% probability to be spotted. 2 smoke squares on LOS means 50% to see it. 3 squares - 25%, and only 4 squares of smoke make you totally invisible.

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