General > Discussion

Impressions on 2.5 vs 2.4

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anonymissimus:
sick bay:
Why is it now so that all hired soldiers are always displayed ? In 2.4 it was a quick overview how many and which soldiers are wounded.

equipping soldiers:
Being able to equip via the employees menu is of course very useful, but removing a soldier from the dropship should still auto-unequip that soldier, as that's what's needed, most of the time, since the equipment is needed for the soldier replacing him/her. If he/she is reequipped through the employees menu, that equipment should of course be kept then. At least it should be configurable with an option; or, for instance, what about assigning the "remove all equipment for this soldier" action to the right-click menu in the menu where soldiers are assigned to the dropship (aircraft menu) ? Both functionalities are already present elsewhere, so supposedly an easy task, and that way it's also possible to keep equipment based on the soldier and current situation. Alternatively, add a "remove all" button in the aircraft menu. The way it's now, I always need to switch to the equipment screen before or after removing soldiers just to remove all of their equipment.

bleeding and increasing needed TUs:
I actually like this change, as it's more realistic, and aliens (Taman at least, probably all biologic ones) bleed as well, but don't seem to have any medikits, so it's actually more an advantage for Phalanx than something increasing the difficulty, and makes wounding an alien much more valuable than it used to be.
I hope the sick bay is more efficient in healing than in 2.4 though, where I sometimes take heavily wounded soldiers onto the battlefield and immediately heal them with a medikit because it's so much faster.

soldier clothing styles (urban, arctic and so on):
The choices got removed, supposedly because they don't have effect ? Good.

the weight system:
While optimizing the carried weight, the popup informing about not enough time units is very annoying. It needs to be clicked away all the time. The flashing red warning below the soldier image is perfectly sufficient. Please make this configurable. (show this popup ? yes/no)
I mean, the carried weight should be arranged so, that it is as close as possible to half the maximum carrying capacity, but doesn't go above that, thus there's no TU penalty. Unless the goal is to get a speed boost, of course.
Also, the weight display would be more useful if it displayed (in addition) the weight the soldier is able to carry in addition without suffering a TU penalty. And perhaps the maximum carrying capacity displayed should instead be the half of that, since that's the value the player is more interested in.
Perhaps like so
15.5 (+1) / 33 (16.5) Kg
where the numbers in brackets are the additional possible weight and the de-facto maximum weight.

EDIT
I just discovered that the popup is non-modal, permanently placing it in one corner seems a way to go.

money:
I haven't played 2.5 enough to really comment on it, but if there are less UFOs, there is much less money from selling those, or their parts, and the loot from the resulting missions. Thus nations should pay a lot more, to have the same money, since costs for buildings and equipment as well as maintenance costs seem to be the same.

map design:
This is the worst part. There are less UFOs to make the game less tedious and more map variation to make it interesting I suppose. *But* even for scouts and so on, there are now huge maps, such as the "mansion", which is a pure pain in the ass. I suppose these maps are designed to be visually attractive, not fun to play (Table tennis on a balcony is nonsense though, the ball would fall to the ground all the time.) This map is huge, one can keep searching for hours (real time) just for that one moment when you spot an enemy. Thus, playing a few such maps is more tedious in the end than playing a lot of those small maps in 2.4 - fighter crash, bridge, scout crash and the generic crashed UFO which appears in variations. On those maps it is often so that one can see all enemies right from the start and kill 2 or 3 in the first turn. This often leads to ideal battle results. I don't complain about most or all weapons being deadlier, just about that it's not fun to search large maps (in particular, maps with a lot of levels).
Also, the crashed UFO is seldom (never ?) visible. In 2.4 one can detect the remaining number of enemies from the UFO type. Say, it's a scout, you already killed 1 and see 2, thus there can none be hiding somewhere and ambush you. That's a huge tactical advantage. In 2.5 it is necessary to somehow track the UFO type by out-of-game means...

Grug:

--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---sick bay:
Why is it now so that all hired soldiers are always displayed ? In 2.4 it was a quick overview how many and which soldiers are wounded.

--- End quote ---
This is for when implants are implemented.


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---Alternatively, add a "remove all" button in the aircraft menu. The way it's now, I always need to switch to the equipment screen before or after removing soldiers just to remove all of their equipment.

--- End quote ---
I agree, that an easy remove all button would be nice. Not sure I'd ever use it though. :-P


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---I actually like this change, as it's more realistic,

--- End quote ---
Yep, I agree. The hospital does seem far better than in 2.4, possibly even a little too efficient? (either that or I'm lucky that I put my soldiers in and wait for the next wave of UFO's)


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---soldier clothing styles (urban, arctic and so on):
The choices got removed, supposedly because they don't have effect ? Good.

--- End quote ---
I vaguely recall still seeing this option, but in a different place. *shrug*


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---While optimizing the carried weight, the popup informing about not enough time units is very annoying. It needs to be clicked away all the time. The flashing red warning below the soldier image is perfectly sufficient.

--- End quote ---
I disagree with this. I like the popup saying that I was dumb, but configurable would be an option. Unfortunately I frequently? don't notice that it has gone yellow and so my soldiers have degraded TU's when I start a map. Good thing I save lots! :-P


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---Also, the weight display would be more useful if it displayed (in addition) the weight the soldier is able to carry in addition without suffering a TU penalty. And perhaps the maximum carrying capacity displayed should instead be the half of that, since that's the value the player is more interested in.

--- End quote ---
A "weight remaining" value might be a good idea, but you don't want to make numbers too confusing.


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---I haven't played 2.5 enough to really comment on it, but if there are less UFOs, there is much less money from selling those, or their parts, and the loot from the resulting missions. Thus nations should pay a lot more, to have the same money, since costs for buildings and equipment as well as maintenance costs seem to be the same.

--- End quote ---
Seems like no problem to me. I've only had a couple of times where I was hanging out for the next UFO so I could start the next upgrade or whatever.


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---This is the worst part. There are less UFOs to make the game less tedious and more map variation to make it interesting I suppose. *But* even for scouts and so on, there are now huge maps, such as the "mansion", which is a pure pain in the ass.

--- End quote ---
Hahaha, I completely disagree with this. I love the bigger maps. I much prefer mansion when it is full size to when it is only half the map. Yeah, it can take a while to find all the aliens, but I personally enjoy it.

Maybe it is the short attention span that people have these days and the need for instant gratification. The game should take a while, that's the kind of game it is!


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---Also, the crashed UFO is seldom (never ?) visible.

--- End quote ---
Hmmm, that's different to me. I'd say I get the crashed remains of a ship almost all the time. I get surprised if I don't see the crashed remains.


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---In 2.4 one can detect the remaining number of enemies from the UFO type. Say, it's a scout, you already killed 1 and see 2, thus there can none be hiding somewhere and ambush you. That's a huge tactical advantage. In 2.5 it is necessary to somehow track the UFO type by out-of-game means...

--- End quote ---
I don't like this at all. Personally I think the number of aliens in each ship should be random but within limits based on the size of the ship. You should never know everything about your enemies before you even start, that is simply boring. The game should be a challenge, it should be unpredictable.

ShipIt:

--- Quote from: Grug on May 24, 2014, 10:02:59 am ---I don't like this at all. Personally I think the number of aliens in each ship should be random but within limits based on the size of the ship.

--- End quote ---

That´s basically how it works in 2.6-dev now.

H-Hour:
anonymissimus, are you the Wesnoth dev of the same name? If so, nice to see you over here. Would be great to have you involved if you're looking for another open-source game project to work on. :)

H-Hour:

--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---I hope the sick bay is more efficient in healing than in 2.4 though, where I sometimes take heavily wounded soldiers onto the battlefield and immediately heal them with a medikit because it's so much faster.
--- End quote ---

Medikits no longer heal your soldiers much, just stop the blood loss (wound damage), so you'll need to put them in the sick bay.


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---soldier clothing styles (urban, arctic and so on):
The choices got removed, supposedly because they don't have effect ? Good.

--- End quote ---

No effect + no art assets for the new soldier models.


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm ---the weight system:
--- End quote ---
There's a whole bunch of unorganized discussion on the talk page in our wiki that you might find interesting. I think you need to be logged in to view talk pages.


--- Quote from: anonymissimus on May 21, 2014, 10:18:45 pm --- even for scouts and so on, there are now huge maps

--- End quote ---
I have not contributed much to 2.6, but I do believe this is one of the issues to be addressed in the Map Revision Project (another Talk page in the wiki).

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