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Reaction fire, I really think this is good advice...

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MonkeyHead:
Oh, right. So you would like soldiers to reaction fire to use all and any TU's, working thier way down the firemode scale? Now I get it - much clearer, and not that bad an idea. I personally would prefer ALL reaction fire to be snap shots (or equivalent) - that seems to fit the idea of "reacting" far better, and would encourage agressive fire and movement based gameplay, instead of sitting back and waiting for your opponent to come at you. Reaction fire is currently (and should remain IMHO) a last resort compared to firing and keeping in cover. If you choose to sit in the open, you should get mown down.

I do forsee one main complication with your proposed mechanism though - such as, getting it to trigger correctly in a way people would use. Currently, an enemy needs to spend say 8 TU's to trigger a potential reaction snap shot. Lets say this occurs, and you then get your 3 options, only one of which is selectable as the other 2 have not yet had the enemy spend enough points to trigger them. So you neglect to take the shot, waiting for the enemy to spend another 6TU's so you can try a 3-round burst. The enemy continues to move, and maybe fires and kills your unit so you lose the reaction fire opportunity, or doesn't (or can not) due to TU shortage trigger the other fire modes. You then kill the enemy on your next turn. In this potentially very common scenario, the whole extra complexity has been pointless, gained the player nothing and not really altered the outcome from a gameplay perspective, other than the slim possibility of the reaction fire saving the death of a unit. Now, yes, I suppose an enemy could in theory contine advancing, and trigger the option of a burst or full auto fire mode, but way more probable is that the enemy unit would have taken a shot that wounds or kills a unit before that takes place for most multifire mode weapons.

NicSO:

--- Quote from: MonkeyHead on January 26, 2014, 07:41:10 pm ---Oh, right. So you would like soldiers to reaction fire to use all and any TU's, working thier way down the firemode scale? Now I get it - much clearer, and not that bad an idea. I personally would prefer ALL reaction fire to be snap shots (or equivalent) - that seems to fit the idea of "reacting" far better, and would encourage agressive fire and movement based gameplay, instead of sitting back and waiting for your opponent to come at you. Reaction fire is currently (and should remain IMHO) a last resort compared to firing and keeping in cover. If you choose to sit in the open, you should get mown down.

I do forsee one main complication with your proposed mechanism though - such as, getting it to trigger correctly in a way people would use. Currently, an enemy needs to spend say 8 TU's to trigger a potential reaction snap shot. Lets say this occurs, and you then get your 3 options, only one of which is selectable as the other 2 have not yet had the enemy spend enough points to trigger them. So you neglect to take the shot, waiting for the enemy to spend another 6TU's so you can try a 3-round burst. The enemy continues to move, and maybe fires and kills your unit so you lose the reaction fire opportunity, or doesn't (or can not) due to TU shortage trigger the other fire modes. You then kill the enemy on your next turn. In this potentially very common scenario, the whole extra complexity has been pointless, gained the player nothing and not really altered the outcome from a gameplay perspective, other than the slim possibility of the reaction fire saving the death of a unit. Now, yes, I suppose an enemy could in theory contine advancing, and trigger the option of a burst or full auto fire mode, but way more probable is that the enemy unit would have taken a shot that wounds or kills a unit before that takes place for most multifire mode weapons.

--- End quote ---

A+ for reply :)

But...one thing...this works in Laser Squad. it is kinda different but it works.

Another thing is...I mostly use auto fire when I play, 12 TUs and in 95% cases I fire the first.

If enemy is far far away I would use snap but if enemy is closer I would go for auto.

Or...I Used 12 TUs on first enemy, there is second enemy and I have 8 TUs left but I cant make  snpap shot....

Falco:
i agree, selecting on the fly whether to wait some more to take a better shot or which solider should fire first is a good idea. oftentimes the enemy comes around a corner and someone takes the shot who has a really bad angle wasting his ammo and reaction fire just to shoot at an obstacle. another unit takes the shot, kills the enemy and the first unit could have saved him from the second guy coming around the corner.
i think it's reasonable that if you take more time to place a proper shot, that you actually do a proper shot. aiming takes time, and waiting until you have a better aim CAN make a difference between wasting your ammo or killing an enemy.
so i think this is a nice idea to select who fires what, when.

tembero:
When you stand behind the door waiting for old snakeman to walk through, you are expecting to use reaction fire, in a turn based game the only way you can copy a reactional strategy is to have fire outside of your own turn. Therefore I think the character should be set with a button click to expect to react, rather than just leaving him in an open field doing nothing. But the fire mode should be one that is not specified as an 'in-turn' strategy action such as aimed, snap or auto fire, hidden to the player in the fire menu. It should allow that both parties are completing actions simulanteously. Some games allow a reaction or interrupt to give a whole team a chance of completing a whole new round whilst the opposing character spends that time picking his nose!.
  Thinking whilst typing there, but a selected reaction shot on your turn should allow you to react immediately on sight of the enemy. But maybe once your character has reacted each subsequent action ( turn, shoot ) should only happen after a set number of action points expended by the opposition. thus

Turn on Reaction Fire -> Spot Enemy & Fire -> shot misses -> enemy spends 10 action points aiming & shooting -> he misses -> you fire again & use all reaction points -> shot misses -> Ortnok uses final action points and eats your brain.

This could allow the reaction statistic to be more relevant as well, providing a ratio from action points to reaction points conversion.

edit - or the reaction fire/speed statistic could be used to calculate TU's for the reaction fire only type shot. I would try and write a patch but my c++ skills are on the brink of meltdown with pointers/deferencers!

edit again - yes got it this time - each ammo has its own reaction fire type

Assault rifle clip - 2 quick auto type shots at 2/3 auto shot tu's
fletchette shells - 1 snap shot type blast at snap shot tu's
m203 grenades - blow your whole team up hiding in the skyranger for only 10 tu's, however you like.

On reaction fire confirmation would be great, click where to fire, right click cancel. can pops back up after 10 tu's of any alien if cancelled. allows for a little outmaneuvering.

Each soldier has his speed stat.

Speed 30 is your all alien or human average reaction speed only as an example which equates to no tu spend modifiers

reaction -: 1 ( speed 30 ) x 9 ( Assault rifle 2/3 auto-fire type reaction fire ) x 1 ( position latitudually to the north pole ) = 9 tu's for soldier 2 fire a couple of abysmal looking shots at alien, before browning he's trousers. Game user can curse at no logics but he's own poor strategy. Thus leading to more feature requests!

Kind Regards,

Tembero 

Wolls:
I may be alone, but like checkers or even chess what I like about turn based games is the ability to force the opponent into a move or series of moves that is ill advised or otherwise unwanted through superior positioning  ( of my troops).  ...or rather the supposed superior positioning of my troops.

IF I have the active abilty to choose my soldiers reactions to the enemy ON the enemies own turn; I kinda feel like my attempts at positioning are/were in vain.  Also I may want to really play an RTS if I feel like it should be my turn/my turn or even my turn/your turn +++my turn  and then /my turn.  So yeah, I am super wary of allowing a player a choice during the opponents turn.

Also I believe that Reaction Fire works the same for both sides, so every ability you give yourself / you are also giving your opponent.  But whatever RF system is used, in a turn based game, it should be a simple affair IE not just one that works for the player, but one that the player can easily intuit and combat against, fully allowing them and their enemy the abilty to plot.

Also /me I'm not terribly imaginative so I need to kinda 'hands on' see how things work, but that doesn't mean things should just remain at what they are / I like the ideas being expressed here and ultimately there are various play styles outside of my own.


--- Quote --- What if I have 20 TUs and I select auto fire (12 TUs) then I have 8 TUs wasted and I could of use them as a snap shot!
--- End quote ---

Depends on range but with 20 TU's you could have thrown down an IC Grenade ( aka the only DOT weapon) which would have forced the Alien to move around your fire / not move towards your fire or even forced the Alien to move through your fire thus damage.  At which point that extra 8 TU as a set reaction snap shot may just come in handy... although with 21 TU you could have crouched.. or sprung for the 12 TU 3 shots plus the IC Grenade at 22 TU's?

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