General > Discussion

2.5 sucks completely

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kurja:

--- Quote from: ShipIt on May 31, 2013, 11:43:09 am ---Back in 2.4, in the beginning I researched the Bolter (Electromagnetic Rifle). After I had them, there was no more need to use any other weapon. My teams were usually six Bolter-guys and two using a GL. With this team I played from the beginning to the very end without loosing a single soldier.
Playing 2.5 you need a different mindset. You need to use a wider range of weapons in battlescape missions. And you will loose soldiers on your way to victory.

And when he finally comes up with a result, using this on the battlefield feels like cheating.  8)

--- End quote ---
Ah but let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'm as sure as you are that the results will be well worth the wait for but let's not pressure our research teams with such expectations =)

H-Hour:

--- Quote from: Merlin on May 31, 2013, 09:53:53 am ---So the Heavy machine gun which didn't see any nerfs will be removed. Great. Anyway!
--- End quote ---
No weapons are going away, just the references to the skill in the UI. All heavy weapons have been re-classed as Close, Assault or Explosives.


--- Quote from: Merlin on May 31, 2013, 09:53:53 am ---Close - SMGs/Shotguns? I don't use the SMGs, like ever. I rarely use side arms unless I have to. And Shotguns took a heavy nerf with only snapshot as their firing mode and what seems to be lower range.

Explosives - again, great weapons hit with nerfs. The grenades seem weaker and with burst fire out it's hard to kill aliens with just 1 shot. Rockets seem to have taken a nerf to the aim and more TUs to shoot. Why take them when a rifleman can lob 2 grenades and still move?

--- End quote ---
This is why you shouldn't compare weapons as like-for-like (ie - "assault weapons are better than close weapons"), but should think of them as serving different purposes. Shotguns (and plasma blaster) are extremely powerful 1-shot, short-range weapons to be used in tight quarters and especially for reaction fire when you expect aliens to walk around a close corner. These guys can keep all your other guys safe in close quarters situations when you need a single, low-TU shot to kill the alien before it can get a shot off. Grenade launchers no longer have burst, but they do have much longer range than they used to, and way more range than a thrown grenade. That makes them all the more useful for indirect fire, bouncing around corners, shooting through windows and bursting a round off a wall next to an alien otherwise unreachable. This is a role no other weapon can perform well beyond a few grids. RPG accuracy was reduced (it used to be the most accurate weapon in the game, more than sniper rifles), but recently their power and splash radius has been increased quite a bit to compensate.

UFOhunter:
Played a bit around with the recent build. It certainly adresses some of the points I made earlier. One prob for me though is that I get now very often black squares on battlescape maps, and quite a lot of them. Checked the bugtracker, seems to be known as #4859 if I read this right. Still I can play on without probs, it doesn't crash, just looks weird. Different settings didn't help.

Additions and improvements I've seen so far are very nice. The previous version I had hadn't even the weight thing implemented :)

Conan:
Please make the "very easy" more easier, as I am in late game with power armour, stingray, hand particle weapons and my men still die like flies. I only choose my men based on strength as noobs get immediately overloaded with armour + 1 decent gun; also run out of funds and nations hapiness really quickly :(

Was there an earlier stable version of UFO AI where I could use 12 men mission? and where can I download earlier than 2.4?

Merlin:
Again I like the fact that I'm getting replies to concerns I have.


--- Quote from: kurja on May 31, 2013, 10:53:58 am ---smg's are extremely effective in early game, that is, against targets that don't have armour. Don't you use flamethrowers? Those are deadly against, well, anything.
Rocket launcher certainly is cumbersome to use. As Phalanx commanders we can only hope that our scientists could improve their performance against heavy late game enemies.
--- End quote ---

Know what else is effective early? Assault rifles just with better range. And no I don't use flamers. It's probably going to be changed to "Close" but currently it's heavy in my version, I think. Maybe. Anyway, range is the game since aliens rarely get close and when they do they tend to kill the person they got near. And unless the lab boys figure out how to make anti-matter rockets for ground troops I'm probably not going to use it.


--- Quote from: H-Hour on May 31, 2013, 06:00:47 pm ---This is why you shouldn't compare weapons as like-for-like (ie - "assault weapons are better than close weapons"), but should think of them as serving different purposes. Shotguns (and plasma blaster) are extremely powerful 1-shot, short-range weapons to be used in tight quarters and especially for reaction fire when you expect aliens to walk around a close corner. These guys can keep all your other guys safe in close quarters situations when you need a single, low-TU shot to kill the alien before it can get a shot off. Grenade launchers no longer have burst, but they do have much longer range than they used to, and way more range than a thrown grenade. That makes them all the more useful for indirect fire, bouncing around corners, shooting through windows and bursting a round off a wall next to an alien otherwise unreachable. This is a role no other weapon can perform well beyond a few grids. RPG accuracy was reduced (it used to be the most accurate weapon in the game, more than sniper rifles), but recently their power and splash radius has been increased quite a bit to compensate.

--- End quote ---

Blaster is short range. Explain why the aliens have great aim with them across the map. Moving on from that, Shotguns need 2-3 shots at close range to down an alien. Grenade launchers were great at indirect fire in 2.4 and still are in 2.5 if they could kill anything. Also, lower RPG accuracy but larger splash radius? That could blow up in a commander's face(HA).

My biggest problem is that I don't see any reason to use weapons besides Assault and Sniper. 2.4 I ran about 3 Assaults, 2 Snipers, and the others tended to shift around depending on the map. I liked using a Rocket to take out the biggest problem I saw on the field. Now it's all Assault and Snipers. Maybe it's just my line of thinking or playing, but Close is too risky and Explosive too much work. Work meaning not being able to kill, hit, or carry anything.

Also about the weapons, which skill do they use? When looking at the Shotgun it says Close, but when looking in the UFOpedia, the 'requirements' say heavy. And a few weapons seem to keep this odd dual skill thing.

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