General > Discussion
2.5 sucks completely
H-Hour:
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 30, 2013, 09:42:03 pm ---1) What can my soldiers use unless they are Riflemen or snipers? Close or Heavy, why are you here? Get out.
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Heavy is deprecated and will be removed before 2.5 is finished. Close: SMGs/shotguns before you face armour, then just the riot shotgun with saboted slugs until you can research plasma blaster, which is really deadly. Explosives: grenade launchers and maybe Rocket Launcher depending on your style and the map. You should think of them as roles, not merely categories of weapons. Each has its particular strengths and your team should be assembled with that in mind. My personal approach is to use assault as my generalists, then bring along the other skill sets to cater to specific situations. The specialists can throw grenades (smoke, frag, flashbangs) to support other troops when they're not in an ideal position to use their primary.
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 30, 2013, 09:42:03 pm ---
2) Before I was complaining how fast it was to get plamsa weapons and alien tech. But for a good month my guys were basically doing nothing. Plasma weapons hadn't shown up, I had researched the two aliens that were attacking, and only UFO scouts and fighters were running around. So yeah I had nothing to do on Normal for about half way into April to near the end of May.
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Oh I thought you were talking about a gap further in. Yes, there's a bit of a lull early on, especially for experienced players who push hard on research right away. There's actually a "beginner's month" built into campaigns at normal difficulty and lower, so try hard difficulty to get right into the action quicker.
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 30, 2013, 09:42:03 pm ---3) Yeah I know it's RNG hates me. But something is just off when an Alien can regularly hit my guys with a Plasma Blaster, an apparently Close range weapon.
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IIRC, aliens have a tendency to use the snap shot and burst modes of the plasma blaster, which are more accurate than the primary ball mode. But I'd still contend it's a case of distorted perception. Our human brains tend to exaggerate the unexpected in our heads. If a shot has a 10% chance to hit, I won't take it because it seems almost worthless. But if I face 5 rounds from a 10% plasma blaster shot each alien turn, I'm likely to get hit a few times each mission. Each time it feels like a long shot, but that's just because my brain discards all the times it didn't hit.
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 30, 2013, 09:42:03 pm ---I'm doubting the weapon upgrades. Sure there's probably plasma grenades for the launcher but nothing for the others. I'm this close to firing all soldiers that don't have good assault or sniper stats.
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That'd be crazy. Explosives guys with grenade launchers almost always rack up the most kills. And I'd hate to take on some maps, like Shelter or even Oriental, without a close specialist or two.
Merlin:
I love the fact that I'm getting actual replies about my concerns. This is awesome.
--- Quote from: H-Hour on May 30, 2013, 11:38:23 pm ---Heavy is deprecated and will be removed before 2.5 is finished. Close: SMGs/shotguns before you face armour, then just the riot shotgun with saboted slugs until you can research plasma blaster, which is really deadly. Explosives: grenade launchers and maybe Rocket Launcher depending on your style and the map. You should think of them as roles, not merely categories of weapons. Each has its particular strengths and your team should be assembled with that in mind. My personal approach is to use assault as my generalists, then bring along the other skill sets to cater to specific situations. The specialists can throw grenades (smoke, frag, flashbangs) to support other troops when they're not in an ideal position to use their primary.
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So the Heavy machine gun which didn't see any nerfs will be removed. Great. Anyway!
Close - SMGs/Shotguns? I don't use the SMGs, like ever. I rarely use side arms unless I have to. And Shotguns took a heavy nerf with only snapshot as their firing mode and what seems to be lower range.
Explosives - again, great weapons hit with nerfs. The grenades seem weaker and with burst fire out it's hard to kill aliens with just 1 shot. Rockets seem to have taken a nerf to the aim and more TUs to shoot. Why take them when a rifleman can lob 2 grenades and still move?
--- Quote from: H-Hour on May 30, 2013, 11:38:23 pm ---Oh I thought you were talking about a gap further in. Yes, there's a bit of a lull early on, especially for experienced players who push hard on research right away. There's actually a "beginner's month" built into campaigns at normal difficulty and lower, so try hard difficulty to get right into the action quicker.
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That might explain some things. Main base had 3 labs(now 4) so I blew through research.
--- Quote from: H-Hour on May 30, 2013, 11:38:23 pm ---IIRC, aliens have a tendency to use the snap shot and burst modes of the plasma blaster, which are more accurate than the primary ball mode. But I'd still contend it's a case of distorted perception. Our human brains tend to exaggerate the unexpected in our heads. If a shot has a 10% chance to hit, I won't take it because it seems almost worthless. But if I face 5 rounds from a 10% plasma blaster shot each alien turn, I'm likely to get hit a few times each mission. Each time it feels like a long shot, but that's just because my brain discards all the times it didn't hit.
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I have a tendecy that the aliens seem to have sniper like aim with a close range weapon. Why are they even allowed to use that from distance? Haven't used it much(No Close based soldiers remember?), but I believe the shotgun won't even let you shoot past range X. Why does the Blaster get a pass? More to the point, I can't say anything about their percentages because I never SEE theirs. I see mine.
--- Quote from: H-Hour on May 30, 2013, 11:38:23 pm ---That'd be crazy. Explosives guys with grenade launchers almost always rack up the most kills. And I'd hate to take on some maps, like Shelter or even Oriental, without a close specialist or two.
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But there's no weapons that suit them well. I only have a close specialist or two for stunning. Otherwise on the bench. I also doubt that there's weapon upgrades beyond plasma nades for the starting human weapons. One reason I wanted to try to mod this was just for that reason.
kurja:
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 31, 2013, 09:53:53 am ---So the Heavy machine gun which didn't see any nerfs will be removed. Great. Anyway!
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Heavy skill is going away, nothing uses that skill anymore, afaik the machinegun isn't going anywhere
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 31, 2013, 09:53:53 am ---Close - SMGs/Shotguns? I don't use the SMGs, like ever. I rarely use side arms unless I have to. And Shotguns took a heavy nerf with only snapshot as their firing mode and what seems to be lower range.
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smg's are extremely effective in early game, that is, against targets that don't have armour. Don't you use flamethrowers? Those are deadly against, well, anything.
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 31, 2013, 09:53:53 am ---Explosives - again, great weapons hit with nerfs. The grenades seem weaker and with burst fire out it's hard to kill aliens with just 1 shot. Rockets seem to have taken a nerf to the aim and more TUs to shoot. Why take them when a rifleman can lob 2 grenades and still move?
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Rocket launcher certainly is cumbersome to use. As Phalanx commanders we can only hope that our scientists could improve their performance against heavy late game enemies.
However, remember that the Ex skill is also used for thrown explosives!
--- Quote from: Merlin on May 31, 2013, 09:53:53 am ---But there's no weapons that suit them well. I only have a close specialist or two for stunning. Otherwise on the bench. I also doubt that there's weapon upgrades beyond plasma nades for the starting human weapons. One reason I wanted to try to mod this was just for that reason.
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Cdr. Navarre says he understands your frustration in this grave situation, but also insists that research for advanced terrestrial technologies should not be abandoned; given adequate resources, surely his team can come up with satisfying results.
ShipIt:
--- Quote from: kurja on May 30, 2013, 10:56:43 pm ---That being said, I agree that assault and sniper skills are rather important.
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Back in 2.4, in the beginning I researched the Bolter (Electromagnetic Rifle). After I had them, there was no more need to use any other weapon. My teams were usually six Bolter-guys and two using a GL. With this team I played from the beginning to the very end without loosing a single soldier.
Playing 2.5 you need a different mindset. You need to use a wider range of weapons in battlescape missions. And you will loose soldiers on your way to victory.
--- Quote from: kurja on May 31, 2013, 10:53:58 am ---Cdr. Navarre says he understands your frustration in this grave situation, but also insists that research for advanced terrestrial technologies should not be abandoned; given adequate resources, surely his team can come up with satisfying results.
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And when he finally comes up with a result, using this on the battlefield feels like cheating. 8)
Visitor:
It seems that in the recent months, great many of people complained about RNG and aliens being marathon running snipers. I suspect that there was a change that makes the whole thing harder. I am not sure if there's connection but the funny thing is that if one plays on any but the easiest difficulty levels, phalanx troopers seem to have skills below average of what you can expect of professional soldier. Occasional 'average' here and there among the stats, and 'competent' in mind is often the best you can expect - but most of other stats indicate that the recruit is actually subpar to regular human being.
(Though I realize it's like that since ancient times - still, given the occasion and speaking about Phalanx troops being weak, maybe stat labels could be adjusted, if not stats themselves).
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