Technical support > Bugs in stable version (2.5)

Weight penalties

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Telok:
What's the current combat load of a modern American soldier these days? Aim for that being about 50 to 60% of the max and see how UFOAI equipment compares. That should be reasonably believable.

DexCisco:

--- Quote from: ShipIt on November 12, 2012, 07:04:36 am ---FYP

--- End quote ---

Nice.

As I pointed out above, at 40 strength a soldier can carry the average weapon and a clip with Nano armor.  That means that there are some that they cannot carry without a penalty.  Some loadouts require you to have at least 50 strength to use without penalty, and the lightest possible loadout require at least 50 strength to be under the 20% threshold.  If that is how the system works, then you tell me what the strength values should be.

Anarch Cassius:
The worst example is the Rocket Launcher, it's now nearly impossible for a fresh recruit to use the thing in armor at all and even an experienced heavy can get away with the Launcher, Armor and maybe one extra rocket.

Now I was looking at military carry load documentation: http://thedonovan.com/archives/modernwarriorload/ModernWarriorsCombatLoadReport.pdf

--- Quote ---"Unless some form of CLOHE [Combat Load Handling Equipment] is available, crossloading machine gun ammunition, mortar rounds, antitank weapons, and radio operator's equipment causes assault loads to be more than the limit of 48 pounds. This weight restricts an individual's ability to move in dynamic operations. Extremely heavy Fighting Loads must be rearranged so that the excess weight can be redistributed to supporting weapons or can be shed by assaulting troops before contact with the enemy."
--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---Circumstances could require Soldiers to carry loads heavier than 72 pounds such as  approach marches through terrain impassable to vehicles or where ground/air transportation resources are not available. Therefore, larger rucksacks must be carried. These Emergency
Approach March Loads can be carried easily by well-conditioned Soldiers. When the mission demands that Soldiers be employed as porters, loads of up to 120 pounds can be carried for several days over distances of 20 km a day. Although loads of up to 150 pounds are feasible, the
Soldier could become fatigued or even injured. If possible, contact with the enemy should be avoided since march speeds will be slow.
--- End quote ---

120 lbs would require a Strength of 54 to even carry. 72 lbs needs 32 strength so nearly any Phalanx recruit could do that. So our troops are a little weak but this is a major problem for real militaries it seems. Most troops can carry almost 48 lbs without penalty in game.

So I'm still with my idea of graduating the penalty and maybe even the ability to go over "max" with a harsher penalty.

H-Hour:
You need to keep in mind that nearly all soldier load references you'll find out there are talking about soldiers who live, eat, shit and die in the field over days, weeks and months. In other words, the loads are designed for marching and surviving. Rapid response troops (like SWAT, for instance) would never take nearly so much equipment into the field for the kind of single, limited, contained engagements Phalanx troops are deployed to.

Near the bottom of this page, you'll see a "Fighting Load" listed at around 16.7kg. An average Phalanx rookie can carry 17.5kg before he is encumbered and loses TUs. By the time they have gained 10 strength points, they will be able to carry 22.5kg before becoming encumbered.

When we say "encumbered", we're not saying completely ineffective (except in cases where weaponry should only be used with high TU firemodes -- snipers and the RPG). The sense of time can be deceptive in a turn-based system, but turns last only seconds. That means we're talking about weight that can slow a soldier's sprint and snap-to-target speeds by no more than a second or two.

As we've said before, the numbers are still being worked out (I just spent a couple hours with some spreadsheets) so please be patient. You will be very restricted in the loads you're able to carry, and you will have painful choices to make regarding armour, secondaries and miscellaneous equipment. But there are definitely some items I've identified that need reducing in order to hit certain load-out benchmarks. We'll get there before too long.

Anarch Cassius:
Glad to hear tweaking is underway.

Don't get me wrong I like the system and felt like Strength was nearly irrelevant previous to this.

It's also added some much needed balance to certain weapons. A Needler is not necessarily a clear choice over the other assault weapons. The VHS Assault rifle is lighter and more accurate than a standard Phalanx assault rifle but less powerful. A grenade launcher in armor typically can't move fast or pull off aimed shots but is still effective. This sort of thing is cool but it does feel in need of some work in other areas.

I also suppose it's true our troops aren't marching infantry but special forces and that does make a difference. As long as training a heavy soldier or two up to 55 or so isn't unfeasible I can handle that.

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