weapons balance in 2.5

[kurja]

I'm wondering, is further weapons balance-tweaking planned for 2.5 (or 2.6)? Currently there are, in my opinion, a couple issues.

One is encased plasma ammo for assault rifles, this seems just too good in every way. With rifle bullets being so small, I think it would make more sense to produce similar ammo for shotguns to make them work in later game - I for one would really love that, there are plenty late game-usable assault class mid-range weapons but rather few close combat weapons, I think this would make a ton of sense. There are some other issues as well... please discuss.

[H-Hour]

I can't say yet. I'm still playing through. But encased plasma also fills a late-game role for rookies who can't effectively wield the needlers.

A shotgun ammo may be considered.

[Sarin]

I can't say yet. I'm still playing through. But encased plasma also fills a late-game role for rookies who can't effectively wield the needlers.

A shotgun ammo may be considered.

Well, encased plasma is actually superior to needlers. Assault rifle is lighter, more accurate, in the full auto even faster, and as hard hitting as normal needler. Heavy needler is a support weapon akin to machine gun, and in this role it is outmatched by machine gun with encased plasma, as it's again more accurate and as hard hitting as heavy needler. Probably only advantage needler has is in greater amount of projectiles being more favorable for "tagging" aliens and letting them bleed out.

I agree that shotgun might be cool, late game lacks quick, hard hitting short ranged attack useful for CQB. I have to use grenades and plasma blades for that, each with its own huge problems (melee range/splash damage) and can't be used for RF to keep those damn speedy shevaars off my troops' backs.

[kurja]

like said, plasma encased solid shots for the shottie would be just delicious.

What about the magnetic weapons? They're slow and heavy, and not incredibly accurate - atm I prefer assault rifles and snipers with plasma ammo, given the new tu system I can get two aimed shots with the sniper - each able to take out an armored ortnok. Only benefit to magnetic weapons over assault weapons seems to be through wall -ability. How could this be improved? Or is there any need - lots of subtly different weapons, to each his own?

And then there's the rocket launcher. Slow and heavy (as it should be), yet unable to take out the toughest targets in one HE shot it just doesn't seem worth using esp as other one shot kill weapons are available. For that I would suggest amping up the unwieldyness even further, say by making the rockets heavier and larger so you can only carry maybe 1 or 2 reloads, and make them more powerful with really big splash radiuses - so that it could really be the "b.f.g", barely portable but it would absolutely kill anything anywhere near the impact point. This could encourage deploying two-man rocket launcher teams, one carrying reloads and the other using the weapon, which would be a cool tactical element that's currently not in the game.

[Sandro]

Against. RPG is nerfed enough already, no need to nerf it any further. Apparently, the version you are playing is NOT the latest dev version.

[Sarin]

I agree about the two man team. I don't have the improved rocket available yet in my campaign, so I can't say, but I think it is 1HKO weapon even at late game. But I think there should be another type of rocket available from the start, HEAT (shaped charge). Low yield blast, but direct hit would be 1HKO on virtually everything.

As for coilgun/electromagnetic rifle: They are more accurate than sniper over longer ranges. Coilgun is only slightly stronger than sniper rifle with plasma ammo, but improved ammo for bolter really takes the cake. In my game I use one "light" sniper with SR, and one heavy sniper with coilgun/bolter. They are really fun with throughwall attribute.

[kurja]

Against. RPG is nerfed enough already, no need to nerf it any further. Apparently, the version you are playing is NOT the latest dev version.

am.

[H-Hour]

As for coilgun/electromagnetic rifle: They are more accurate than sniper over longer ranges. Coilgun is only slightly stronger than sniper rifle with plasma ammo, but improved ammo for bolter really takes the cake. In my game I use one "light" sniper with SR, and one heavy sniper with coilgun/bolter. They are really fun with throughwall attribute.

Can you speak more about your experience with the Electromagnetic Rifle? I too use the one "light" sniper and one heavy sniper with Bolter (don't yet have the coilgun). But I have to say my light sniper has just performed way better. I have my own thoughts on the reasons for this, but I'd be very interested to hear more from you if you've found the Bolter really useful and the light/heavy setup work well for you.

[Sarin]

I haven't used bolter at all until improved ammo. It's a b*tch to make, but it's best sniper around. I don't have PB weapons researched yet and my campaign is pretty much on hold for now. I actually used light+heavy sniper team only after getting coilgun.

[GPS51]

Hmm now I'll have to load up my campaign and bother with antimatter bolters just to try them out. I preferred laser rifles and pb rifles to plasma ammo assault rifles but it might just be my play style. I'd love to see A more accurate rockets (that do more dmg) and B plasma shotgun ammo. I prefer mid/close range battles anyway. It wasn't until the end of the campaign that I switched 4 or 5 laser rifles to pb rifles for close range punch.

[Anarch Cassius]

The bolter is a nice gun but quickly becomes a novelty with all the other stuff until you get improved rounds. This is partially because it's so heavy and I think Strength increases more easily now so it may be less of an issue in a game started from scratch.

The high capacity and accuracy of the initial sniper rifles makes them a good staple and the new rounds mean they stay useful in they end game.

The needlers tend to output more rounds than human weapons with plasma and although a bit wasteful this makes them useful for spraying groups and very long range combat. Of course enemy armour greatly affects the usefulness of this technique.

I'd very much like to see the a plasma sabot for the shotgun. I was also thinking maybe in the very late game a shotgun round made from needler ammo and a one-shot magnetic pulser instead of a powder charge. The range and accuracy would be horrible but it sprays the nearby area with needles without the need for a heavy alien needler.

[Wolls]

  During the campaign I went from sniper rifle to EM Rifle, and didn't really notice a loss of performance.  At least up until the Encased Plasma Ammo, where I think the damage output really out classes the EM Rifle (not just the light class extra TU ie double shot, as much as there aren't any resistances or armour values to detract from it) .

  I don't think the game takes advantage of through wall RF, If I remember Telok says it'll shoot through another Alien, but I'm not sure this applies to walls (which will break the LOF and consequently the RF cycle?).

  Either or, seems rookies with the Encased Plasma Ammo, have a better mission to kills ratio then the my more experienced soldiers with EM's.  Of course being rookies, (less then 10 missions) I can't say they are REALLY out performing..

I should say, I really like the accuracy of the EM Rifle, and take a lot of long distance shots on my turn, but don't try to RF with them which limits their viability.