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Playing 2-5 dev

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jerzy_cz:

--- Quote from: Jon_dArc on August 02, 2012, 01:36:05 pm ---30±5 damage, actually. It's really all about the Ball firemode at the moment.

--- End quote ---
Well, I never saw an alien shooting plasma blaster with the ball mode...


--- Quote from: Jon_dArc on August 02, 2012, 01:36:05 pm ---You're ignoring the major increase in range and the increased damage which, though it doesn't look very large, pushes GL grenades at nearly point-blank range solidly into one-hit-kill territory. Three-shot mode was critical in 2.4 mostly because it would almost certainly take at least two grenades to actually kill your target.

As for hand grenades, they've got better radius, TU use, and minimum inventory investment but substantially worse range, decently worse damage, and take up more space per shot ammo-wise; I don't think they really compete.

--- End quote ---
I'll give it a try...

One more thing about balancing and ufo disassembly. I think that we should get much more alien materials from harvester. Its quite a big ship, but we heave to process more than 20 to get enough materials yo produce Stringray interceptor

H-Hour:
Some misconceptions in this thread which may lead to you not understanding the weapon changes in 2.5. This is partly because the UFOPaedia text has not been updated to reflect some of the changes in weapons. These include:

1. Plasma Blaster is now supposed to be a shotgun-like weapon. It's close skill, close quarters, extremely high damage, very poor accuracy (Ball mode recommended).

2. Bolter (Electromagnetic Rifle) is now a sniper weapon (TU cost probably to be reduced some).

3. Needler gun is no longer a sniper rifle. It is an assault weapon.

4. The proper role of heavy weapons is a little off at the moment because we don't have a weight/encumbrance system yet. That means I've slightly nerfed them a bit but this is just a temporary balancing mechanism.

Nokim:

--- Quote from: jerzy_cz on August 03, 2012, 09:07:52 am ---Well, I never saw an alien shooting plasma blaster with the ball mode...

--- End quote ---
1. There was a bug in alien AI which prevented aliens from using other firemodes then single shot (first listed).
2. Alien have to get really close to use that mode.

As i said, i have tried that firemode several times without success. And with dead my soldier as result. Such unreliable weapon - useless. In single shot or burst mode plasma pistol is better.

Timo:

--- Quote from: H-Hour on August 03, 2012, 11:20:11 am ---Some misconceptions in this thread which may lead to you not understanding the weapon changes in 2.5. This is partly because the UFOPaedia text has not been updated to reflect some of the changes in weapons. These include:

1. Plasma Blaster is now supposed to be a shotgun-like weapon. It's close skill, close quarters, extremely high damage, very poor accuracy (Ball mode recommended).

--- End quote ---

Can you make damage dissipation based on range? It would make perfect sense for shotguns and plasma weapons. With shotgun flechette hit should be rather guaranteed even at rather high distances (definitely at distances usually encountered in normal ufo missions), but because flechettes spread and only few actually hit at longer distance they don't do that much damage. For plasma same principle as shotgun flechettes, dissipation with range, easy to hit target. That could also help with "aliens hit too easily" complain. They still hit, but because of distance not quite so deadly as now. Same for lasers BTW, air is actually pretty bad medium for high power laser, you hit for sure, but beam dissipates in air quite rapidly.

So very high accuracy, but less damage with distance (shotgun flechettes and plasma), very poor accuracy but high damage for shotgun slugs.

(IMO current shotgun range is too weak for saboted slugs, you should be able to easily shoot at distances used in typical ufo mission, but hitting the target would be way less guaranteed than with proper rifle shots)

Maybe not in 2.5, but for future consideration.

H-Hour:
Timo, there's been a lot of discussion in the last six months around the weapons and I won't rehash it all here. But I will say that "perfect sense" is not the only target we have to aim for when setting the weapon stats and there are a lot of reasons why weapons do not actually follow real-world specs.

My main concern with a mechanic like reduced damage based on range is that it is not very transparent to the player. Our current setup is already very unhelpful for players who want to know precisely how much damage a weapon will do and how much damage they need to do to kill an alien. Adding another layer of damage modification would either add to the existing problem or would require us to expose more complex calculation information in the UI -- which I think carries its own problems.

On the plus side, flechette shells (and several weapon firemodes) already function in the way you describe. A single firemode can send out several shots (8 for flechette shells) and at further range fewer will hit their target. But close-range weapons are still for close-range shots and it's likely none of the flechettes will hit at long or medium range.

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