Technical support > Feature Requests
Bleeding wounds
ShipIt:
--- Quote from: H-Hour on April 22, 2012, 04:58:28 pm ---Personally, I think localized wounds would be a very interesting addition to the battlescape, but they need to be done correctly to avoid exactly the kind of situation you describe (when a soldier is injured somewhere they shouldn't be). There is also the issue of properly displaying this to the player.
However, I think neither problem is surmountable assuming the wounds are implemented correctly. And it would allow for opportunities in the future for things like you mention: localized wounds leading to localized problems. A leg injury could increase TU cost of movement. An arm would could reduce accuracy.
--- End quote ---
I remember a game using a system like that. Of course in this game it is also possible to aim at a certain body part. Sick, but lot of fun.
For UFO AI, if localized wounds are implemented, it should be like H-Hour said. Of course it would be needed to visualize this for the player. Not only for his own squad, but also for visible enemies.
DarkRain:
I decided that for now I will stick with the official design (which is here just for reference) as much as possible, so random body parts wounded it is -- at least for now --, if I manage to implement all (or most) that is planned I'll see what improvements can be done afterwards.
So first question, what does people (devs) say:
a) Wounds with flat penalties and bleeding rate, regardless of the severity of the hit that caused the wound or
b) Wounds have different severities depending on the severity of the hit that caused the wound with penalties and bleeding rate varying accordingly.
Second: What does this mean?
--- Quote from: BTAxis (wiki) ---Wounds on the torso increase the amount of TUs needed for reaction fire.
--- End quote ---
a) More TUs spent for each reaction fire shoot
b) Enemy needs to use more TUs before soldier can make a reaction fire shoot
c) Both?
Also, since project just switched to C++
linkedList_t or C++ containers?
struct or class?
(in case I need to store more info on the wounds and/or a list of them)
Seems my previous question stirred things more than I intended...
--- Quote from: homunculus on April 23, 2012, 11:09:54 pm ---as far as i remember that current spec, there will be some harassment to the player, like maybe the soldier lost his arm and leg, and got bitten by a mosquito.
as far as i understand, there is a case where the mosquito bite would have to be be treated first.
--- End quote ---
Assuming wounds differ from each other in severity, what if all of them have the same bleeding rate, losing an arm could be as threatening as a mosquito bite, the spec says nothing about this.
--- Quote ---what if the first priority is that the soldier just needs to shoot accurately, or else maybe the first priority is that the soldier needs to move somewhere.
if the treatment of the wounds depends on the order the wounds were inflicted, the player cannot make the choice.
--- End quote ---
No, first priority is survival of the patient, so worst wound gets treated first (assuming wounds have different degrees of severity), no choice to make here.
Problem is, the current system has people used to think "oh my soldier almost dies from that shoot, I'll just patch him up so he can keep fighting as if nothing happened", when in fact they should be in dire risk of dying, and unable of shooting accurately, moving freely, seeing clearly and/or reacting quickly.
*unless all wounds have the same severity, then you would probably be right
--- Quote ---(recently someone complained about having to click 13 times to use a medkit).
--- End quote ---
I remember this one, he got his count wrong, you need up to 11 clicks only, count them in his very example, but note that using a sidearm requires the same number of clicks, and using a grenade requires up to 8, problem is in the UI in general not just the medikit.
homunculus:
my highest priority question: "what is to be gained by individual bodypart wounds over generic wounds?" seems to be answered almost not at all (the only relevant statement was that the bodypart that gets hit must at least be visible to the shooter, and maybe it could be understood as the shooting visual also matches where the wound will be).
I sort of hoped that this question would not be considered as my personal perverted interest in such things, but rather as a question that the coders and designers might want to have a clear answer to, before deciding this way or that.
sadly, it seems i was wrong, and the decision seems to be made without.
that being said, i am not going to start a holy war about it, it would only do more harm rather than benefit.
--- Quote from: DarkRain on April 28, 2012, 03:53:57 am ---[...]Seems my previous question stirred things more than I intended[...]
--- End quote ---
no need to panic, that is just the way i post.
I see some arguments against bodypart wounds, and i just listed what came to mind at that moment.
no more, no less.
anyway, there is something else:
the more severe the bleeding, the less damaging the initial hit can be without compromising firepower too much.
afaik, it is desired that there should be less 1-hit kills.
i read people posting about 1-3 health points bleeding damage, i don't think that would be enough for this insta-kill reduction effect.
DarkRain:
--- Quote from: homunculus on April 28, 2012, 08:44:51 am ---my highest priority question: "what is to be gained by individual bodypart wounds over generic wounds?" seems to be answered almost not at all
--- End quote ---
Well since I'm not a game designer I expect to gain the answer to that once I'm done with the implementation ;D
--- Quote from: homunculus on April 28, 2012, 08:44:51 am ---
--- Quote from: DarkRain on April 20, 2012, 12:21:27 am ---[...]Seems my previous question stirred things more than I intended[...]
--- End quote ---
no need to panic, that is just the way i post.
I see some arguments against bodypart wounds, and i just listed what came to mind at that moment.
no more, no less.
--- End quote ---
I didn't say that only because of your post mind you, the fact that I only replied to your post is because I managed to accidentally delete a good part of my post while typing, and wasn't in the mood to write everything again.
--- Quote from: Mattn on April 24, 2012, 07:12:10 am ---we are doing traces to determine a hit or no hit - these traces can also be used to determine the location of the hit - if the face is not visible, the face can't get hit (because the trace doesn't hit)
--- End quote ---
I knew about the traces, but I don't feel like implementing localized hits at this time (just as I don't feel like implementing the visibility system, just for the visibility penalty specified for head wounds), maybe after I finish the current spec I can take a look at those traces...
Also that won't help with AOE attacks (spldmg)
--- Quote from: ShipIt on April 24, 2012, 09:33:13 am ---I remember a game using a system like that. Of course in this game it is also possible to aim at a certain body part. Sick, but lot of fun.
--- End quote ---
Well IIRC it was decided that in UFOAI there will be no aiming at body parts.
--- Quote ---Of course it would be needed to visualize this for the player. Not only for his own squad, but also for visible enemies.
--- End quote ---
I think showing this info for enemies would be too much problem for little gain, add to that I'm not very good with UIs and....
homunculus:
--- Quote from: ShipIt on April 24, 2012, 09:33:13 am ---I remember a game using a system like that. Of course in this game it is also possible to aim at a certain body part. Sick, but lot of fun.[...]
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: DarkRain on April 28, 2012, 06:55:49 pm ---[...]Well IIRC it was decided that in UFOAI there will be no aiming at body parts.[...]
--- End quote ---
i think that there might have been a misunderstanding here.
ShipIt wrote 'a certain body part', not 'bodyparts', and i don't think this would necessarily mean the same thing.
afaik, some aliens don't even have that bodypart, afaik specifically ortnoks are castrated, so there would certainly be a problem with that in ufo:ai.
(and i wonder if there will be any opinions by anyone on the severity of bleeding?)
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