IR-goggles

[homunculus]

Examples are abundant, I won't Google for you.

I don't know what you're quoting in the second paragraph nor can I comprehend it.

i get the impression that you cannot understand your own 'abundant' examples.
the examples are indeed abundant, but they are all contradicting what you claim.

it is not a quote, lol, it is one of the abundant examples.
it is a link to an image done with infrared thermography, showing that you cannot see though walls at all, not even a little bit.
btw, i got the impression that you might even not see very well through a glass window with ir.

[headdie]

Charlie, I get the sense you are missing the point of this thread.  The thread came about because we have/had the situation where you can IR goggle the map, find an alien through walls and then with the appropriate tech, snipe the alien through said wall which removes the skill and chance elements from the game.  So we are exploring ways to allow a mechanic that can help the player locate aliens without giving them what is in effect a licence to cheat

[Charlie]

'boring and tedious solution is more effective'

That looks like a quote to me. If you're so liberal in your use of single quotation marks, don't be surprised people don't understand you. I did clearly write "second paragraph"... and that's a quote.


I do retract what I said about pinpointing objects through solids such as walls, it's not IR that does that.


headdie I see, either that's a new tech added since the last time I finished the game or I managed to miss it.

[Charlie]

For some ideas, see:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/100395-mit-can-now-see-through-concrete-walls
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/seeing-through-walls-wireless-router

[homunculus]

[...] either that's a new tech added since the last time I finished the game or I managed to miss it.

'tis the sniper rifle.
1. go the side of a harvester.
2. ir-goggle the aliens that have gathered inside at the wall.
3. shoot the aliens with sniper rifle.
i have got the impression that shooting through the thin side wall of a harvester at a diagonal works better than at right angle.

one of the most hilarious cases is killing aliens with ir-goggles and sniper rifle from above the ground in the old mine map.

this is what i call 'boring and tedious', along with ir-goggling a large map to find an alien stuck somewhere, and unfortunately it is more effective than playing in a less boring way.
what is the challenge of shooting aliens through the wall of a harvester? i think the main challenge comes from suffering the boredom.

[...]I find having my best soldier  - equipped in nanocomposite armor, with reaction fire enabled, hunting for that last alien - killed without even trying to fire back to be not-fun, and the IR goggles are a great way of preventing that. I like them the way the are (in today's head).

i see that as: you rather suffer the boredom than loose your soldier.

[Charlie]

What range do IR goggles currently have?
If I'm facing north when I click on them, and then I turn east, will they still uncover aliens behind walls to the east?
Do they work for more than 1 turn if clicked just once?


I did try using them many times but could never get them to work as in a video I saw on youtube - I'd have a few soldiers stand in front of walls and use them but nothing would show up, then during the aliens' turn they'd appear out of nowhere and kill me. Tried this a few times on a few maps.

[homunculus]

the ir-goggles used to be like weapons (in hand), and using them was like shooting, even with targeting and max range.
so, the effect is instantaneous, and reveals aliens that "get hit".
the range is bit more than flamethrower, as far as i remember, probably in the .ufo scripts somewhere.

so, when you use the goggles and turn around, the aliens will be visible only in the direction you were facing previously when you used the goggles. you need to use the goggles again after you turned around to see the aliens in the new direction.

the range is small enough and the scanned area is not clearly identifiable (some goggle applications will probably overlap if you need to be sure), so scanning a somewhat large map with tunnels and things can be quite confusing with "zillions" of applications of ir-goggles before you finally find the stuck aliens.
this is one of the problems i suggest to alleviate by giving more vague data about the sum of distances to aliens that lets you figure out the general 'warmer-colder' direction all over the map.

[Anarch Cassius]

The limitations on the IR googles seem appropriate and interesting. Since a combat round is only a few seconds spending 1/2 to 1/3 of that carefully scanning your field of vision with a device is reasonable. This might be a good area for a Perk type ability where a scout character could reduce that cost but overall I think it's a nice system.

Still we've got one headgear item. I can't see how introducing alternatives has to take away IR Googles. I would certainly take both along as the detector is of more use is larger areas while the googles are good for tight spaces with low visibility.

Also is there a density limitation on the googles? Like how coilguns can pierce a bit of wall but not thick concrete? Or is it purely range based?

[Triaxx2]

I admit, I'd love to have more head choices. At the moment it's IR, Armor, then I arrange the other things.

I'd love to be able to say, swap them out for goggles that enhance the hit chance depending on how many people have a sight line on the alien. So if the entire squad has them on, it's 8-16% increase in hit percent. Doesn't seem like much when it's applied to an Assault Rifle, but if it's applied to Rocket Launcher or crouching sniper making an aimed shot...

[H-Hour]

More options are planned, but no solid plans exist. Almost certainly headgear will be used when we implement psionics. I've also considered some kind of accuracy-enhancing headgear (gun-mounted camera that feeds an image to panel in front of the eye for a special scope, for instance). But all these things require new capabilities programmed into the game so are not likely to happen soon.

[Triaxx2]

Hurry up then. Snipers need all the help they can get.

[Delvonshi]

You know as silly as this sounds.. when I first started playing I thought IR-goggles were a one time use per mission item only. Perhaps adding ammo to them would allow them to remain a stable form of flushing out an enemy.. or not going in blind without allowing them to be used all the time. 1-2 uses would mean 8-16 uses per mission and in the missions where you really need them, subway, harvester ships, any mission with lots of tunnels, you tend to use them more.

You can justify it with the fact that no known power source can sustain that level of imaging more than 1 or 2 times while keeping the IR goggles lightweight enough for tactical use. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Anarch Cassius]

Does kinda figure if the modern version needs a truck that these would have limited power. Still at 12 TU to use and limited range I haven't felt they are terribly overpowered, it's just the lack of alternatives to compete in that slot.

[Triaxx2]

As of 2.5, the most useful map I've found is the one bunker map. Just for the sheer miscellany of tunnels and the tiny, tiny entry points.

[Charlie]

I still haven't managed to spot a single alien using IR goggles. I position guys around a UFO, use headgear, the charging sound plays but no aliens show. I do this about 4 times per turn using different soldiers, twice per soldier if enough TUs looking in different directions. Nothing. Click end turn. Aliens appear and kill me.


Please document the IR Goggles, explain how to use them, what the range and field of view is and how long the effect lasts.


Would be nice if some form of indicator was drawn over the tiles covered by the goggles.