Weapon overheating/ trait & training system

[Kaslak_CG]

Weapon Overheating

Ever played "Incubation"? Every weapon has a "overheating gauge" wich goes up when firing, goes down when resting at very different ratios depending on weapon. When that gauge is max, the weapon is overheated and there's the risk factor to bring some fear: maybe it wil fire normally, maybe it jams for some turns, maybe it explodes. Who knows. Surely in this game would make more important the use of secondary small power weapons

Trait system with training system
As you can se here

http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=5582.0

I proposed a trait system for soliders. Well, it's time to link it at training programs. These are not just a "stay in the room, get better stats" like it was in xcom. These should be military training programs with explaination, effects, eventual repetibility, at the training room.
Let's see... say for example you want to make the use of medkits only for trained soliders, which have not to be medics of course. Just an example...

First Aid
Requisite:none
Duration: 4 days

This practical training course allows a solider to get the basics for the correct use of Medkits and to recognize at a very basic level different kind of injuries and needed treatment. At the end of the first training cycle the solider acquires the trait "field medic" (requisite to use medkits) and +3 mind.
Following this course again gives not great advantages. The solider receives just a +1 mind because of better understandment of subject.

Basic Phisical Training
Requisite:none
Duration 1 week (?)

This training course gives an all-around improvement in solider's phisical form. At the end of the training cycle the solider gets +2 phisical stats. This course can be followed multiple times giving the same effect.

And so on, for weapon skills and more traits...If it will be added a leadership trait system some advanced training courses could be for officers, regarding combat tactics & leadership.

[Hertzila]

Weapon Overheating

Ever played "Incubation"? Every weapon has a "overheating gauge" wich goes up when firing, goes down when resting at very different ratios depending on weapon. When that gauge is max, the weapon is overheated and there's the risk factor to bring some fear: maybe it wil fire normally, maybe it jams for some turns, maybe it explodes. Who knows. Surely in this game would make more important the use of secondary small power weapons

Nope, haven't played it.

It sounds to me as an interesting method of limitation in case a weapon turns out to be overpowered but right now, I think an overheating aspect would only serve as an unnecessary annoyance and just mess the player's game even more. Humans are not very strong in the beginning and forcing them to use secondary weaponry would just suck even more.

I also think it would clash with the fact that these weapons were specifically chosen for this job and this is an elite unit (Believe It Or Not) who keep their weaponry in good shape.

Trait system with training system
As you can se here

http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=5582.0

I proposed a trait system for soliders. Well, it's time to link it at training programs. These are not just a "stay in the room, get better stats" like it was in xcom. These should be military training programs with explaination, effects, eventual repetibility, at the training room.
Let's see... say for example you want to make the use of medkits only for trained soliders, which have not to be medics of course. Just an example...

First Aid
Requisite:none
Duration: 4 days

This practical training course allows a solider to get the basics for the correct use of Medkits and to recognize at a very basic level different kind of injuries and needed treatment. At the end of the first training cycle the solider acquires the trait "field medic" (requisite to use medkits) and +3 mind.
Following this course again gives not great advantages. The solider receives just a +1 mind because of better understandment of subject.

Basic Phisical Training
Requisite:none
Duration 1 week (?)

This training course gives an all-around improvement in solider's phisical form. At the end of the training cycle the solider gets +2 phisical stats. This course can be followed multiple times giving the same effect.

And so on, for weapon skills and more traits...If it will be added a leadership trait system some advanced training courses could be for officers, regarding combat tactics & leadership.

I think these could work, though right now I don't know should we give this a full room. At some point, perhaps.
IMO they should be fairly advanced (or basics in new stuff, like alien physiology) training and such stuff as "Medkit basics" should be left out. Again, your guys are supposed to be elites (BION) and teaching them basics would be strange. Stuff like "<weapon class> specialization", "alien health approximation" (opened by autopsies) and "advanced medkit use" would work though.

Not sure how traits (or rather, perks) would be implemented alongside, though I do realize these would help in specializing your guys into set tasks in which they perform better. Like a health approximation perk.

[Kaslak_CG]

Nope, haven't played it.

It sounds to me as an interesting method of limitation in case a weapon turns out to be overpowered but right now, I think an overheating aspect would only serve as an unnecessary annoyance and just mess the player's game even more. Humans are not very strong in the beginning and forcing them to use secondary weaponry would just suck even more.

I also think it would clash with the fact that these weapons were specifically chosen for this job and this is an elite unit (Believe It Or Not) who keep their weaponry in good shape.

I think these could work, though right now I don't know should we give this a full room. At some point, perhaps.
IMO they should be fairly advanced (or basics in new stuff, like alien physiology) training and such stuff as "Medkit basics" should be left out. Again, your guys are supposed to be elites (BION) and teaching them basics would be strange. Stuff like "<weapon class> specialization", "alien health approximation" (opened by autopsies) and "advanced medkit use" would work though.

Not sure how traits (or rather, perks) would be implemented alongside, though I do realize these would help in specializing your guys into set tasks in which they perform better. Like a health approximation perk.

Elite troops, now I understand!
Very well, thanks for listening those brainstormings, hope those will help!

About overheating it could be thought as an effective technical limit of some weapon (the powerful & compact ones) more than depending on manteinance skill of solider. Of course normal proiectile weapons' tech problems should be already overcame in 2084. (and since the high lethality of combat, even if overheating was present it wouldn't affect such weapons which kill long before heating). So it would'nt bother too much early stages human weapons. Prototype heavy lasers could risk damage instead... (Perhaps some weapons, along with standard shoots,  could have additional powerful attacks which affect heavily the heat gauge instead just costing more APs: "Remember, solider... it could be tempting to shortcircuit the power output electronic limitator on power cells to obtain more laser firepower in desperate situations... but it could turn against you" ;P)
Of course if weapons are already balanced, for now it would mess up the balance.

BTW i thought about some traits and general effects just for brainstorming, i'll post later

[geever]

About overheating it could be thought as an effective technical limit of some weapon (the powerful & compact ones) more than depending on manteinance skill of solider.

stop. You don't fire that much that your weapon could overheat IMHO. We won't complicate the game to hell, it would lose all it's fun.

-geever

[Kaslak_CG]

As i already mentioned regarding standard weapons, soliders don't fire that much in a given encounter.
About new technology and plasma alien weapons I don't think neither you nor I can tell anyway, still as already mentioned, it's not productive right now to mess-up the well-made balance. Overheating right now is useless. If in the future comes the need to differentiate weapons beyond AP cost, damage, range, accuracy, overheating could be the missing variable. But not rigt now.

So I agree, after a few more hours of play - now it's useless - but don't say complicate. A gauge depending on a single dumb variable (shoot vs not-shoot) can't be complicate any serious turn-based strategy player. It can't. Useless, not complicate.

About fun it's quite subjective... More variables mean more complication, more problems but also more opportunities. And overcoming problems with opportuinities is my (subjective) source of fun.

The same thing you said about overheating could be said about morale of soliders. Useless complication? try to think the game without it. It would be more deterministic perhaps. No more sudden overthrow of results. Funny? Subjective.
Why don't you protest then about localized damage and bleeding? It's a useless complication, the old fashioned health bar fits perfectly. Or not? Not for me

Anyway, i put ideas on the table, but i recognize i am not the one who follows the development of this game from early stages, there are many variables i don't know. "I know i don't know".