+city map: Can you use the elevator?

[TennSeven]

The title pretty much says it all.  I am curious to know if (and how) you can use the elevator in the parking garage on the +city map, or if you have to walk everyone up the stairs.

-TennSeven

[H-Hour]

You have to walk everyone up the stairs because the game does not support elevators. I thought about blocking off both elevators, but I left it open in case the game ever implements flying suits.

[bayo]

What about adding a broken thing to visually see we can't use it?

[H-Hour]

I tend to avoid things like this because I think acknowledging the problem brings more attention to it than quietly ignoring it. We've all played those games where you walk in and the elevator is "out of order", and think "well, how convenient for the map designer!"

My general philosophy is that most people accept the game world and its behavior as-is without too many questions, and good design will seek to minimize the number of times that the player is directly confronted with the unreality of the situation. Right now the game has almost zero interaction with the physical environment, so most players will learn the world as a static world.

Unfortunately, a parking garage presents the problem of how cars get up and down. If I added a ramp (my initial plan) there'd be almost no space for parking, so I chose the elevator route even though it's going to raise questions for some like TennSeven. I'm not sure whether adding an out of order sign would just compound the problem: it would directly confront the player with the unreality of the situation, but this time not just for inquisitive players like TennSeven but for virtually all players. It's hard to measure this, though, because only those who notice a problem will come to the forums. It's hard to say how many never even considered it.

If most people disagree, however, I'm not totally against putting in an out of order sign, or maybe something that indicates the elevator won't move unless it senses the weight of a full car.

[bayo]

Some elements of the game world should be movable. For example doors already should be movable, or breakable glaces. But I dont know if it work. I hope we have time to time new players without the knowledge of what the engine can do. Elevator is not a revolution for them (think about HL1, or Doom), thats concepts they know in "similar" games (ok, here there is more constraintes here, but i dont think they know it).

I think, adding this kind of thing with the level design is the gap between a good to a perfect map. Anyway sure it is only a proposal. And it must not look like "artificial", but there is aliens with big guns, a lot of thing should be already broken, or out of power.

[H-Hour]

idTech2 had it as well, with func_platforms. But I'm sure it would be a bear to figure out how something like that ought to work in a turn-based game.

Anyway, I'll see if I can whip up a little screen saying something like "Lift load not detected" or "Awaiting vehicle load" or something like that.

[Sarin]

I wouldn't do that...imagine the disappointment when you move UGV on it.

Perhaps just add a wrecked lift at bottom of shaft. I can imagine aliens destroying those to cut some approach paths.

[Bartleby]

i would be impressed if they would work.. well. i am impressed of everything using much electricity working.
actually a thing i thought about when i saw some maps.
ufos attacking the earth and all powerplants working perfektly. not bad.

[bayo]

I dont technically where is problems to move big objects like that, mattn should have a good idea of that. 1) actor path 2) rendering and shadow 3) level design tools 4) ingame interfaces to activate things... and i dont talk about AI :-)

[Destructavator]

I think that two minor adjustments would potentially solve this issue and avoid players asking such questions (which I'm sure will come up again and again if nothing is done):

1 - Since we have all this new glowmap support and such, simply have a slowly flashing red light or symbol (perhaps a palm of a hand held up, symbolizing "stop") added, to imply that the elevators are locked down for an emergency.  This wouldn't be a major change and should be easy to add above or near controls for an elevator ("Elevator is locked down!  Do not use!"), and/or perhaps on a sign above the entrance to where the elevator is on each level ("Stop!  Don't come in the elevator!  Use the stairs instead!"), which would have a similar symbol perhaps combined with a green stick figure going up or down steps.  These would be obvious hints, not require text language (so they would work in a map in any nation), and not require a major overhaul of the map.

2 - When full-blown mission briefings are implemented (which is certainly planned), text can be included in any city map explaining that as a standard emergency procedure, all elevators are locked down in the area.  I can tell you from my days working my old job in the law enforcement area that this wouldn't be unrealistic - In an extreme incident where SWAT/troops/soldiers are called in it does make a bit of sense in some cases.  I remember when something like this was done where I worked as part of a training exercise, where we had a real SWAT team come in and do a mock-lockdown scenario in one area of a building, and I was there (although I was not one of the SWATs, but I was part of the exercise).

Both of these would be fairly easy to implement without too much pain.

[H-Hour]

1. There is already a red/green light in front of each thing showing whether it the elevator is "ready" or not. But it's green on the levels where the platform is.

2. I'm hesitant to go this route because this is precisely the kinds of things I always find annoying in games. Yes, it's plausible. But it also seems really obvious that it's an attempt to explain away some problem with the game and, like I said before, it tends to just draw more attention to the problem.

But I'll get a sign done up about the load so player's don't expect it to work.