General > Discussion

New to UFOAI have some questions / critisisms / suggestions

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Gantoris:
Ahhh i put it in the C:\Program Files part so hopefully this will work thanks a bunch.

homunculus:

--- Quote from: Hertzila on June 06, 2010, 12:08:07 pm ---Here was one try. Too bad he seems to have gone missing, his RF idea was great IMO.[...]
--- End quote ---
oh, a lot has been going on in the coding forum.
i am not a c coder myself, so i do not read there.
however, had he posted something in the design forum or even here, i would probably have noticed it, and then i would certainly have had comments.
don't know if he would have liked them, of if those things could be done that way, but maybe it would have helped with some issues.

for example, there was a problem that once a rf target is aquired, etc...
i would certainly have asked if it could be done so that only shooting at the same target gets the burst tu bonus, but shooting at another target would need more tu spent by the opponent before new opponent becomes the new target.
if he is gone, then whatever, but in the end i think it might have been possible to design a multiple shot (multiple burst) reaction fire.

the statements about breaking game balance seemed funny, though, considering that the official claim is that weapons are not balanced atm.

--- Quote from: Gantoris on June 06, 2010, 04:23:01 pm ---I agree and the system in the original XCOM games, Jagged Alliance Series, Fallout Series, Chaos Gate, Silent Storm and countless other truly great squad based combat games works just fine and does not need to be replaced by an overly complex system that doesn't work at all.[...]
--- End quote ---
if that was really intended as a reply to me, i did not say that reaction fire system should necessarily be simple.
simple and intuitive as experienced by the player does not necessarily mean simple.
as far as my non-dev opinion goes, an ideal rf system should be simple and intuitive for the player, and consistent, and enable to do the things that the player expects from the game.
and i guess it would be more like a design problem at first, and i am afraid it would take a long discussion to arrive at something workable.
i would not be against simplicity, but i am afraid that simple is exactly what the rf system is right now.
for the player, it seems like a pain in the ass, though.

Gantoris:
Simple is your men firing reserved TUs at enemy's when they enter there line of sight, that is completely fine and i don't understand why its been changed at all.

I agree that you shouldn't be able to attack anything that isnt in your LoS with reaction fire and i feel that you should only be able to do basic shots like snap shot other than that it should be immediate with no screwing about. As i said previously when you go into reaction fire mode you could also tighten up the characters LoS a little to represent him focusing down his sights to cover a specific area which would help balance it slightly aswell.

homunculus:

--- Quote from: Gantoris on June 07, 2010, 02:06:27 am ---Simple is your men firing reserved TUs at enemy's when they enter there line of sight, that is completely fine and i don't understand why its been changed at all.[...]
--- End quote ---
my best guess is that it was changed because snipers (or anyone with an accurate long range weapon) on reaction fire were too powerful, and the game was played not the way it was intended.

it seems that for this reason, the probability (of enemy movement in your los triggering reaction fire) was set lower.
also, the probability seems to depend on time units that are needed for the shot.

with your system, each time an alien moved 2 tu in your los you could snap shot the alien from e.g. a sniper rifle (which is 12 tu).

in fact, the previous system was very similar (the rf probability was high enough), giving you such insane reaction fire that keeping snipers crouched on reaction fire resulted in much more damage per round than shooting aliens during the player move.

see?

on the other hand, when the probability was set too low, aliens could walk in front of your soldiers freely.

this is why a system that has more reliable reaction fire, but counts time units (tu of enemy movement in your los), may start to appear very much appealing.

(disclaimer: this probability thing is what reaction fire has looked like when i have played the game)

Gantoris:
So because snipers are over powered the solution is to utterly breakdown a fundamental mechanic of a squad based game instead of nerfing just the sniper? Did it not occur to anyone to make a sniper rifle take more TUs to fire perhaps, or dramatically tighten the snipers line of sight so his coverage on reaction fire isnt so great. Also, and i feel this is an important point... aliens SHOULD NOT be able to walk into the open in front of player with RF set up without being bloody shot at that is the very reason for reaction fire.

What you have just described is exactly the function of a sniper in games like this and real life for that matter, you put them in a good spot with good coverage and anyone who walks into there sights gets shot. That area is covered and instead of crying the enemy must work around it by trying to flank the position or using smoke grenades, the logic of totally breaking the game rather than snipers being powerful on a battlefield is insanity.

Most games like this when you activate Overwatch/Reaction Fire ect... the unit in question will spend some TUs to raise his gun and sit there ready to fire in the direction he is facing. This will limit his field of fire quite a bit so coming around the side is very possible, also sniper rifles should take considerably more TUs to fire than they do perhaps 16-18 for a snap shot and 22-24 for an aimed which would achieve the results your after without breaking the mechanic. Also letting you take direct control of reaction fire would be nice but importantly you wouldn't be able to move at all and you can only fire at what is directly in your line of fire.

This is a system that has worked very well for this type of game for as long time and does not need to be changed at all, if you want to nerf snipers be my guest but don't destroy an entire game mechanic to do it.

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