UFO:AI Online

[vedrit]

Did this report mention anything about the massive amount of indie developers? Im in the USA too, Im even in the state where it all began, I hear and have an interest in "the biz". Besides, its not like I plan on making money off of this. I dont think anyone who is using Realm Crafter (the engine) and not part of a larger group, seriously considers turning any sort of profit, or gathering more than a thousand or so players.
And besides, there is a certain...leap, if you will, between single player games (Be they C&C4 or X-COM) and MORPGs (Be they EQ1 or WoW). If I were able to use the resources currently in UFO:AI, I'd be a whole heck of a lot farther along than making a game from scratch. And with only slight modifications, it would look fairly decent aswell.

Competition and survivial? When the industrial revolution came along, what do you think all the little house shops did? They kept going. Now you see them and consider them novelty shops. Thats what this would be. Its what nearly all indie games are, are novelty games.

[Yatta]

If i got it right, what you're suggesting is a generic MMO, UFO:AI flavor ? each getting levels to go to RvR ?
Theres already *tons* of games like that (and I dislike this game genre).

I suppose it would be using guns icons instead of magical spells icons ?
You're still basing your concept on fighting an alien army - if aliens are a 'player' side too, that means soldiers of one side have to wait for soldiers of the enemy side to be willing to do a match.

Or maybe you'll want to keep the turn-by-turn system ? But a 8v8 game would mean a player would play 1/16th of the time, and under the command of a leader. Hmm ... who would want to play the role of a pawn ? I doubt a pre-made mmo engine would be fit for turn-by-turn anyways.

The most common system of MMORPG is have players being heroes, fighting lots of small creatures, gaining level, and maybe going on PvP or RvR. I believe (I didnt check honestly) that the engine you're talking about is oriented toward that. And i really dont see how it would fit a tactical squad mission-based turn-by-turn game.

[vedrit]

If i got it right, what you're suggesting is a generic MMO, UFO:AI flavor ? each getting levels to go to RvR ?
Theres already *tons* of games like that (and I dislike this game genre).

Actually, no. Levels = grind. Grind = extreme boredom and dislike of the game. For humans, actions done for the varying nations gains credit that can only be spent in that nation, gaining gear with particular qualities. For aliens, its more generalized. Maybe alien factions/species with gear?

I suppose it would be using guns icons instead of magical spells icons ?

Well, what else would you suggest?

You're still basing your concept on fighting an alien army - if aliens are a 'player' side too, that means soldiers of one side have to wait for soldiers of the enemy side to be willing to do a match.

Well, if aliens dont make any offensive, then  humans win. If humans dont defend, then aliens get to rick roll the earth.

Or maybe you'll want to keep the turn-by-turn system ? But a 8v8 game would mean a player would play 1/16th of the time, and under the command of a leader. Hmm ... who would want to play the role of a pawn ? I doubt a pre-made mmo engine would be fit for turn-by-turn anyways.

I agree. Turn based wouldnt work very well. Atlantica Online handles it fairly well, but its not 8 players v 8 players, and the battles are short.

The most common system of MMORPG is have players being heroes, fighting lots of small creatures, gaining level, and maybe going on PvP or RvR. I believe (I didnt check honestly) that the engine you're talking about is oriented toward that. And i really dont see how it would fit a tactical squad mission-based turn-by-turn game.

Yeah, thats the usual. But its not all that hard to enable PvP in all zones, and remove PvE elements. Thats not to say, however, than the entirety of the game will be players. There are ofcourse, non PHALANX elements on the human side that are best filled by NPCs, aswells as similar positions on the alien side. Guards, pilots, etc.

[Sgt. Hatter]

I'm not exactly sure what to recommend, but I wouldn't mind seeing this.

[Battlescared]

I'll chime in.  I'd love a good MMORG like this.  The flavors of sci-fi MMORG's kind of suck right now.  I've been looking for a good sci-fi based one for a long time and after a big disappointment with Star Trek Online, well, having an X-Com variety would be great.  The only thing I would ask is to not focus on pvp because I don't like it... though I know I'm in a minority and it will probably need some to survive.

[vedrit]

Im like you, Battle. I far prefer PvE, but yeah, we are kinda the minority when it comes to MORPGS. I think that, for this game in particular, without the PvP focus, it would be far to similar to the squad-based UFO:AI. Sure, if all goes well (If it even gets made), it might be a blast, and sure, certain aspects would be easier to do, but other than turning UFO:AI into a MOFPS, PvP focus is about the only way to go.

[Destructavator]

Well, there's still the licensing issue - if you don't make a GPL game you're still going to have a big problem with content.

[vedrit]

With licensing issues aside

Yeah, I know

[Destructavator]

Yeah, I know

I'll tell you what - If you really want to do such a project I can get you part of the way there, as far as content goes - meaning I can release alternate versions of the new soldier models when they are done, and some soundtracks as well under a non-exclusive license or dual license alongside the GPL, so you could use that content.

As for all the other content, SFX, graphics, music, and whatever else, all that stuff you'll need to replace with content from elsewhere, or track down the authors and beg them for permission to use that stuff in your project.

Unless, of course, you can change engines to use something that is GPL-compatible.

BTW, I remember seeing online sources for free graphics/textures that don't work with GPL but are free for freeware projects, forgive me as I don't remember exactly where they are on the net so I don't have any links handy, but that would also be a good source for content.

[Dark]

When I hear the idea "lets make a MMORPG" I cant help but think of it as naive.
Making any game is usually much harder and troublesome than it seems at start, even if you use a finished engine, you should keep this in mind.
For example, take note that the graphics from UFO:AI alone are very little. Take a look at how much content does an average MMORPG offer. Its far more than what you have in most single-player games.
Those are just general warnings though. More importantly, I dont see your concept. It seems as if you dont have it though out yet yourself.
The first thing you should consider is: "what will be the fun in this game?".

[vedrit]

Dark, I know its hard. Believe me, I know. I wouldnt be bothering if I had to make everything from scratch.

Most MMORPGs have large teams, corporate funding, years of development, and several testing phases. Its done as a job.

This would be done just how UFO:AI is being done; more as a hobby than a job.

To be honest, no, I havent figured out everything, or even close to it. Thats why, if licensing werent an issue, it would be in the 'concept' phase.

[Destructavator]

I think I now see what the big difference is here - you may correct me if I'm wrong vedrit - but there's talk of two very different situations going on in this thread, one being the idea of making a for-profit commercial game and the other being more of a personal, "hobby" project.  When I first heard that your idea won't likely be GPL I had assumed you were shooting for the first scenario, which I apologize for.

A full-blown commercial, for-profit game obviously has to follow certain rules because it has to be successful, so that the developers (part of a large, full-time team) earn a living.

A smaller hobby project, or something done mostly for fun, doesn't absolutely have to count on being a huge success and take on all the competition, because the smaller group of developers who make it don't depend on it for their income and to pay their living expenses.  The advantage, though, is that such a hobby project - because it doesn't demand world-class success - doesn't really have to follow any rules that the first scenario/case would, because it isn't critical that it attract and appeal to the majority of gamers out there.

Regardless, I do have other models I've made and other content that I haven't suggested for UFO: AI, some of which I guess I could offer to your project, although I admit it wouldn't be quite enough for a complete game.

If you consider switching engines, I've been working at learning to code in C++ with the Irrlicht engine for some time now, it is possible that down the road (but not right away) that I could contribute a little coding work - I could certainly use the experience - and that engine has been used in network and multi-player games before, including at least one MMORPG that I've heard of, as well as being available under a very liberal license fully compatible with both GPL and commercial works.

Right now I have other things on my plate I need to digest first though, and if I do help out in such a way in the future I would need help, because if I was the only coder/artist/contributor it wouldn't get done for a long time.

If you can find other people willing to help in various ways, including more content-makers, you might just be able to get your idea off the ground and going.

[vedrit]

Refusing to let this die, I have been looking for a GPL-compatible engine. Ogre is ranking fairly high on the list.
Also, note, that I am trying to combine RPG and FPS. Thats the way to go, I say

[Destructavator]

Refusing to let this die, I have been looking for a GPL-compatible engine. Ogre is ranking fairly high on the list.
Also, note, that I am trying to combine RPG and FPS. Thats the way to go, I say

Yeah, I've looked at Ogre before, it's a bit slow on systems that aren't new with all the latest technology, and the programming isn't for beginners - To even have a simple room with a first-person camera moving around in it requires a lot of setup and codework just to initialize all the stuff.  I'm not saying its bad - I've built Ogre-based little programs before, but it is really for the "big boys" meaning serious programmers, not for a novice at coding.

I've also played with Irrlicht, which I've mentioned before, and Crystal Space, which is complex and takes serious know-how much like Ogre.

I personally stuck with Irrlicht because it is so *easy* to use, just a few lines of simple code that is relatively easy to understand, and you have your simple room with a user-controlled camera flying around looking at stuff.  It also has a simple collision system built in, and GUI stuff too.  Ogre and Crystal space require 3rd party additional libraries for most of that stuff, and require large downloads with lots of initial setup work, by comparison, while Irrlicht is just one DLL file needed next to your EXE to work - if you link dynamically, because when it gets to a more final development point you can link statically and have everything packed into your one EXE.

That was my attempt at an un-biased (yeah, right...) quick review of several of the major, popular graphics engines commonly used for games.

Edit:  I can tell you right now that if you're weak on coding, you'll *choke* if you try to learn Ogre or Crystal Space.  You'd be better with one of the easier ones to learn (and Irrlicht isn't the only one that's much easier).

[vedrit]

Arg...coding...
Yeah, Irrlicht doesnt look too bad either. Have you looked at Sauerbraten?