Eliminate Blocked Spaces for Bases

[kibber]

I disagree with having blocked spaces in a base.  My second base has the entrance in the bottom right corner with a blocked space above it and on the left side.  How do my personnel get into the base proper?  Must be a secret tunnel...  With even today's (let alone future) construction technology, including dynamite and various types of earthmover equipment, humans can pretty much build wherever they want.  Therefore, to make the original base more significant than subsequent bases, why not provide bonuses (or penalize subsequent bases) to research/production due to experience?

Additionally, it could be a requirement for soldiers to train at the main base to rise above the rank of Corporal.  To this end another main base building could be available - a training classroom of a 1 block size.  All tactical and physical training would take place presumably on the surface so it only needs to be a small classroom.  After a Corporal serves/trains for a month at the training center the promotion block is removed and he can transfer to another base and continue promotions normally.  During the training period, perhaps a weapon specialization could be selected and it would increase upon "graduation"?

Another thought would be a hospital buildable at the main base, but only clinics at all other bases with corresponding bonuses/penalties to healing rates.  Soldiers injured below a certain point must be transferred to the main hospital as their injuries would be beyond the scope of the clinic.

Production and research of various alien technologies could be limited to the main base, or personnel training periods required before they could then transfer to another base and continue their work, maybe 6 months experience for scientists and 3 months for workers?

This weekend I finally annoyed the aliens enough to have them finally attack my main base, which I had accepted the pre-built one when I started.  My thoughts on countering the snake base design would be to simply have objects or corners for aliens to duck behind as they make their assault.  During a base attack they could use a somewhat higher number of grenade attacks, maybe?  As well as a higher number of attackers....

[Hertzila]

Please note that the blocked spaces are basically there to force players redesign their bases and not just build the same layout again and again. Making the main base a bit better than the others is just a secondary reason.
Re-read the second page.

[geever]

My second base has the entrance in the bottom right corner with a blocked space above it and on the left side. 

That's a not implemented feature. I'll do it later (2.4+), also strict building next to existing buildings.

-geever

[kibber]

I read the second page and I understand the intent, but if a player wants to design identical bases they are merely showing economic wisdom.  It is cheaper and faster, not to mention smarter, to duplicate a design that works.  Personally speaking, no two of my bases are ever alike because of the budgetary, research, production, and defense requirements existing at the onset of construction.

Of course, an obvious drawback of "cookie-cutter" base designs could (and in my opinion should) generate a distinct combat advantage to the aliens after their first assault due to their familiarity with the base layout.  Even if they don't survive their assault, one must assume they have maintained contact with their superiors up to the point of their demise.

I am simply trying to follow the dictates of logic and common sense.  In my particular case, with my current second base, it is not quite logical for arriving personnel to check in with the sentry on the gate then go back outside and hike across the surface to where there is another entrance.

@geever - No rush, just trying to help with ideas.  Actually, I sort of like my blocked entrance - it justifies my opinion of governmental thinking....

[homunculus]

[...]My second base has the entrance in the bottom right corner with a blocked space above it and on the left side.[...]

so you have the best base defense possible.
that is, when hangars no longer provide entrance to the base, or you build the base so that hangars are also not connected.

if there is no connection between the entrances and the soldier spawn locations then you can choose the auto combat option and the result will be victory without losses.
at least it used to be like that in the version that i played till base attacks.
maybe they have changed it by now, but i doubt that.
i hate those tactical maps that have lots of open land, and i have always quit the game when i got such mission, and therefore, in my last games, i have not had base attacks.

enjoy it while you can, "evil" geever is going to change it in 2.4+.

[BTAxis]

Auto combat does not take the map into account. Never has.

[homunculus]

Auto combat does not take the map into account. Never has.

lol, this is how myths might have been born.

(as far as i remember, only case when i used auto combat was base defense where i could not reach aliens because base was not connected. that's why i got the impression.)

[TrashMan]

Wouldn't base layout varry depending on what you need?

I have manufacturing bases, interception bases , research bases - usually one dominating aspect. Depending on needs.

Of course, but hangars wouldn't connect to the second level.

So why exactly do missiles connect to the second level?

IMHO, good planing should offer substantial benefit to the player. F**** artificia llimitations.

[homunculus]

According to the plan so far, the only penetrating top-level structures would be the Entrance and the weapon facilities. The aliens would be able to start anywhere in these facilities.

First, let's look at mission-critical buildings. The aliens will have several objectives:
- Free other aliens in Containment (if any)
- Destroy the power plant (and with it the rest of the base)
- Destroy PHALANX craft (on the top level)
- Destroy the Command Center

It follows that a player would be encouraged to place these critical facilities as far away from the entry points as possible. What we need, therefore, is a stimulus that will encourage the player not to do this. For the Command Center this is relatively easy, since we can simply make the PHALANX soldiers spawn there. The farther away the command center is, the longer it will take to respond. With the power plant, it gets tricky. A system that disallows facilities to be built farther than X tiles from the power plant comes to mind. In the case of Alien Containment, I have no ideas at the moment.

Now, base defence missions only happen every so often, so they can't be fully responsible for the layout decision-making process. We need some other influence, a reason why a player would choose NOT to build a facility in a particular place. Perhaps cost-modifying properties per tile? Or maybe minor performance bonuses? And of course, there's always your basic blocked tile (which I don't consider a bad thing myself).

putting the access lift in the center through all levels, and making aliens spawn in all levels of the access lift (and sam facilities) looked like it would solve all problems with bottling.

in case hangars are not connected to the rest of the base underground, then the statement that a bottling oriented player would need to sacrifice a lot of space around the access lift does not seem to be completely true.

what about building hangars in the "sacrificed" space, and thus have an access lift that has blocked space at most sides?
so, you could build 3 small hangars, and have access lift that is reachable from only one side.

or build hangars from access lift to the edge of the base, and again the access lift would be a bottleneck while the other part of the base might contain buildings like sam facilities.
with the current base size, one large hangar and two small hangars would do the trick.

now i wonder if it could be possible to build hangars around the access lift so that the access lift would be completely blocked?

and i am somewhat confused here, if the only connection point between levels is the access lift then, unless you can capture the access lift from the aliens, your soldiers will be stuck on the level where they spawn.

also, if one of the alien's objectives is to destroy phalanx craft, how is a player meant to defend the hangars?

[TrashMan]

Just a short re-cap - there are 2 main concenrnes

1) Without some restrictions, players will always be the same base layout

2) With good base design it is possible to bottleneck the alien advance, making the base defense too easy.


Now, the first point is bogus, since different bases have different buildings, and therefore, can't have an exact layout. No two bases I own are exactly the same. Altough I technicly could make a generic base with 1 of each, but that is just inefficient.

The second "problem" is an interesting one. On one hand, you want the player to be challenged, on the other, you want to reward smart playing. so a smart enough player will have it easy? So? Power gamers have always done so in all games. Be careful not to go overboard.

Now, having all of your team spawn at the CC is no-no. It's just stupid. Have it randomized, so that soldiers spawn either in the barracks/armory/crew quarters or in the CC (a minimum of 2 will ALWAYS spawn in the CC).
Or maybe it should depends also on when is the UFO detected?
Makes sense that if it's detected before it reaches the base, that the soldiers will already be prepared and in positions. So the positioning/spawning on soldiers can depend on that.
Get caught by surprise and your soldiers will be randomly put all over the place. Detect it early, and your soldiers will be ready near the entrances.

So...any building that has above surface structures can be used as a entry point...more or less.

Now, IMHO hangars should be more like missile silos - no doors on them except the big sliding one. But the aliens can blow a entry hole.

The second issue is the number of entrances. Bases usually have 1 or 2, and that is. Which mean that if there are any extra entrances, they shouldn't be "natural" (built by man", but rather alien-made (by blowing holes in walls). With a few randomized holes you can create quite a hectic situation.