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Author Topic: Antimatter-propelled aircraft  (Read 6749 times)

Offline nanomage

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Antimatter-propelled aircraft
« on: February 24, 2010, 08:15:11 pm »
Hello.
When Phalanx scientists finish researching "UFO Theory", they report that its engines to generate thrust "by injecting protons and antiprotons into the reaction chamber, then channeling this explosive force out the back of the engine".
This propulsion system is in fact highly inefficient, and it can be proven with quite a few lines of formulas. Given an UFO weighs roughly 100tons and carries 1gram of antimatter, it can accelerate to a speed no faster than 6 meters per second.

This is because of the conservation of momentum. Of course, proton - antiproton annihilation yields tremendous amounts of memory, but you can't just transform it into kinetic energy of aircraft. You must have some mass to throw away to generate thrust and thus move the opposite direction. If you just channel whatever results from annihilation (gamma-radiation at most, but there may be some other particle-antiparticle pairs) back of the engine, you will not gain more than  2mc of momentum from annihilation of 1 gram of antimatter.
 
UFOs just can't fly on this type of thrusters.

I think to add some scientific credibility to the game (its science fiction after all) you should equip UFOs with ion thrusters as addition to their antimatter engines.
Antimatter engines would then just transform antimatter into electric energy and provide an astonishingly powerful source of energy for thrusters, which ionize matter and then accelerate it to relativistic speeds and throw back providing thrust.

This all turned out to be very complex when i tried to conduct even the simplest of calculations to propose a scientifically-credible scheme of space-capable aircraft which would look like in-game UFO (very heavy, carrying 1 gram of antimatter as fuel and no visible mass tanks), and now i'm not sure if it's possible at all.
 
Still, it would be much more credible if we say it's using ion propulsion, with thrusters powered by antimatter engine, and accelerates plasma to the speeds of 1000-10000 km/s. It should utilize athmospheric air to throw away and gain thrust, just because it needs to much mass to carry along. UFO should have small mass-tanks (approximately 1 to 5 tons) to be able to maneuvre in vacuum in order to get to and from the carrier, but itself it's uncapable of interstellar or even interplanetary travel - it carries just too little exhaust mass.

This would be even good, because it would give Phalanx scientist another clue that aliens should operate from some huge orbital carrier UFO.

So, for the sake of scientific credibility, i believe that in-game texts about UFOs' propelling scheme should be updated to something like this:

  The alien propulsion system is a type of rocket engine unlike any ever built on Earth. It uses energy of matter-antimatter annihilation to power ion thrusters accelerating plasma to speeds of thousands kilometers per second. In atmosphere, it can use ionized air as exhaust mass, and it also carries a mass-tank to be able to maneuvre in hard vacuum. Confusingly, amount of matter in the mass-tank is not too big, and the craft does not seems designed for interstellar travel.

 

Offline Hertzila

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Re: Antimatter-propelled aircraft
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 11:18:01 pm »
Ion thrusters are highly effective but also very slow. Quite simply, nothing would fly in atmosphere with them. Instead, there simply needs to be a note in the UFO-topics somewhere that there are huge "mass-tanks" filled with either liquid or gas, like helium. This will be injected to the engines for the AM-M-reactions energy to accelerate. This is what gives the craft their momentum. Also these tanks are only needed in the spacefaring ships. Shuttles and similiar craft only need medium sized tanks for the quick period they are in space (air in the atmosphere works as the required mass, tanks only needed for boosts) that could actually go for water tanks and thus be ignored when examined at first.

http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=4452.0 We had some discussion similar to this here.


Edit: BTW, why the sudden change? Weren't mass-tanks the fix idea? Why suddenly ions?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 11:29:16 pm by Hertzila »

Offline zapkitty

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Plasma and the Spaceships (Was Re: Antimatter-propelled aircraft
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 10:02:02 am »
Hmmm... I'm knee-deep in tracking the last remnant of the zombie bug (or should I say "last revenant of the zombie bug"? :) ) but there's real-world data that's applicable here...

Ion thrusters are highly effective but also very slow. Quite simply, nothing would fly in atmosphere with them.

But if the ions bring lots of friends with them they become a plasma... and a plasma drive can have both the high specific impulse (Isp) that ion drives are famous for and the high thrust-to-weight ratio of nuclear thermal rockets (NTR)... if you have a sufficiently awesome power source.

And proton-antiproton reactions actually produce lots of pions along with the gamma output... and such pions can be directly converted to an awesome electrical power source.

Awesome heat... awesome electrical fields... all that's needed is a magnetic nozzle ala VASIMR and something to ionize.

In atmosphere it'd be the air, of course. In vacuum it could well be anything... because it wouldn't take much of anything. A bit of nitrogen dumped from life support, or maybe fins of alien materials lining the exhaust channels that the magnetic nozzles can expand to include once the ship is in vacuum... an alien version of a thrust augmentation nozzle (TAN).

If this was the explanation then there'd be no big tanks to find... just a small life support outlet leading to the engines and some missing N2... or those somewhat eroded fins around the engine exhaust channels...

This could lead to a bit of fun integration... the spikes on the alien ships could, among their other functions, serve as plasma aerosurface generators... and then funnel some of the entrained air into engine intakes. So the ufos actually would field more aerosurfaces than their physical structures would indicate and yet the Phalanx antimatter-powered craft could still be more optimized for aerial maneuverability than the alien spacecraft.

All known stuff... see Robert Forward's antimatter drive ideas, a working VASIMR prototype has been contracted for installation on ISS and plasma aerosurfaces are used on military aircraft that are flying now.

Just make it all insanely overpowered, over-miniaturized and constructed with alien sensibilities.

Quote from: Hertzila
Edit: BTW, why the sudden change? Weren't mass-tanks the fix idea? Why suddenly ions?

For an antimatter-cranked plasma drive you wouldn't even need big tanks :)
 

Offline Hertzila

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Re: Antimatter-propelled aircraft
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 10:23:40 am »
I made that post in the middle of a night so I didn't read nanomages post carefully. As such I missed completely that plasma and small mass-tank stuff (I thought he meant something more akin to conventional idea of ion thruster instead of a plasma thruster, oops ::)). Now his post is making sense.
In other words, just ignore my previous post.