project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)  (Read 5026 times)

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« on: September 06, 2009, 12:21:11 am »
I can't believe how easy this was - In just a few clicks I was able to select the whole texture group for the scalp hair, extrude it a bit, and make a helmet!

This might not match the other armored heads, but these head models I'm making are really meant to go with the newer up-coming replacement body models.

Side note:  Because the FlatTop head I made doesn't have an armored version, would it be a good idea to only use it as a civilian head for now, then use it as a soldier head in a future release when the new armored body models are done?  I'd think that making older types of helmets for the new heads to match old armored body models that will be replaced anyhow would be taking backward steps and wasting time.

P.S. - This screen shot is of course the high-detail version, not yet textured, which will eventually be made into a low-poly in-game version.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 12:36:42 am by Destructavator »

Offline Migel

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 04:06:30 pm »
To tell the thuth, that doesn't look like a healmet. Ears must not be open and the forehead too.

Offline Migel

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 07:39:19 pm »
It can be more easy - mix your head model with existing one.

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 03:09:33 am »
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that my version was finished, it's still a work in progress, but it'll get there.

Thanks for the suggestions, though.

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 09:18:55 am »
It can be more easy - mix your head model with existing one.

.... and share the md2 files and skins ;)

Offline Migel

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 02:25:25 pm »
Quote
and share the md2 files and skins
I can't share the skin right now, because model in the screenshot use 2 of them. And, as I understand, Destructavator will make new model. But the real thing I want to discuss: one model is not enough. Before making something we need some kind of standard in head models. Some set of models with diferent faces to make variation with helmets.

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 04:07:40 pm »
...But the real thing I want to discuss: one model is not enough. Before making something we need some kind of standard in head models. Some set of models with diferent faces to make variation with helmets.

I agree with this - and this concept is partly already planned on my end, although it'll take some time for me to make some more head models and there's still a few fine points to be worked out.

Here's what I'm thinking tentatively, all of it open for debate at this point:

- When I'm not working on the body and other projects here and I'm working on heads, I first think it would be best to make as many un-armored heads as possible (no helmets or other headgear) first, before starting to add armored versions.  As it's coming now, the models for the heads have two versions, the high-detail one used to build the texture, which is then mapped onto the low-poly copy used in-game.  If I can generate a lot of good "base" heads to work with, then more than one person could work on applying helmets, goggles, etc., for the armored versions, which goes to my next point:

- For helmets and headgear, the armored versions, I think it would be good to start some concept ideas of what the new helmets should look like - because they have to match the armored body models at least somewhat, this part may have to wait just a little bit until I finish the body model and make an armor version of it.  Also,

- The helmets and headgear could first be done separately, not on any head, and later added onto the base heads I was talking about in my first point.  This would also be good because if a TAG is added to this helmet model, it would be easy to have - in the equipping screens where players add gear to soldiers - soldiers could hold a helmet in their off-hand so the player could easily see the face with the name and rank.  Helmets and headgear, especially the more advanced models, tend to progressively cover and shield more and more of the head and face as they get more advanced and protective, which actually is very realistic and is done for very good reasons in real life to protect agents/soldiers/SWATs etc. and during missions - in real life as well - many people have their face covered up and can't be recognized easily because of all the protection.  If the player were to instead see the soldiers wear their helmets in the equipping screen, they would tend to look all the same and lose features that distinguish them.  This issue has already happened with the models and heads for aircraft pilots, last time I checked, and is why I think they should hold their helmets and not wear them in those screens.  (But during actual missions they would of course have them on their heads.)

- Regarding my last point, I actually got to work with real SWATs in my old job, and watch them in an exercise.  I don't have any pictures handy, but they have most of their faces covered up, especially the lower halves, and for good reason - When one looks at a SWAT all geared-up, that material covering their face in addition to the helmet isn't always ordinary cloth, and isn't just to look cool - it can also protect against flying blood, chemicals, and other crap that can be flung around in combat situations, and I'd think this would especially be true for soldiers up against alien life forms with alien bacteria and who-knows-what that could fly around in combat.  Many SWATs also wear that face covering as it protects against flame/fire as well, and for other good reasons as well.

I have some more ideas also, but I'm still thinking and don't want to throw too much into this thread all at once - But we do need a game plan.

Offline Migel

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 05:00:01 pm »
Quote
The helmets and headgear could first be done separately
I don't think that's a good idea. It is waste of polygons and only make trouble (check the screenshot).
About heads I have 2 quick suggestion :
1 - take faces from old head models and mix it with this head. OR
2 - change chin size and nose form. Eyes, lips and all other can be done by skins...

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 05:15:07 pm »
The new models are really meant to replace the old ones, because the old models don't work with new animations coming up - they aren't meant to be add-ons, so I disagree - It would be working backwards and possibly wasting time trying to make all the new and old stuff compatible with each other when the old stuff will be replaced, so I disagree with that - I'd still like more input from the core developers, though.

Edit:  I can also tell you - from a modeling perspective - that the new and old models probably won't ever be fully compatible or interchangeable with each other all the way, at least not without a lot of work - they were built differently, and considering again that the old ones can't do newer animations it really is better to make the new stuff just work with the new stuff primarily, and replace the old ones when they are all done.

Edit (2) : I'd also like to point out that the old body models have kind of funky and abnormal proportions in a few places, and when the new body models are done they certainly won't match or be interchangeable with the old heads or old bodies, unless I intentionally deform the new body models - something that I think would be a bad idea.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 05:32:44 pm by Destructavator »

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Armored Head w/Helmet (very easy!)
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 11:16:06 am »
winter wants to replace the old models - but keep in mind that a lot of work is needed to do this. mixing them (except the heads - those are mixable imo) might or might not look bad. i can only judge once i get my fingers on the final new version of a model.