about realism

[gerald]

not sure if it should be in that topic if no pls move
whats weird for me is how much Tu's aliens have and just from start saw many time as aliens shoot reaction fire 5-6 shoots well i know they uber dangerous and stuff but as for me kinda too uber as for first mission another thing:2 my solds stood few meters away from doors they look at doors taman come thru doors armed with kerrblade they shoot wounding him twice and he come easily to em and kill one...well things like that happenned in x com and other such games but never just from start i wont compare or so dont take me wrong just wanting to know if that thingy in ver 2.3.3 is balanced already or it will be done in future and one more thing on map with farm are fences aliens seem to be same height as humans at least tamans they shoot easily thru that wooden fences while my soldiers have 0 chance to shoot through is that about plasma weap going thru that and my bullets or lasers nope?

[Destructavator]

First off, no offense and nothing personal, but please try to type in proper English sentences or at least a little closer to proper grammar - I myself am an American who knows English as a first language and only understood about two-thirds of what you typed in your post, the last section I found totally unintelligible.  For other forum members here who don't know English as their first language it may be even harder for them.

From the parts I could comprehend:

Keep in mind that at the start of the game the aliens have superior technology compared to more primitive Earth-based weapons and armor, I would think it would make sense near the start of the game for things to be a little rough.

Yes, 2.3 will eventually be re-balanced, with respect to just about everything (weapons, armor, aircraft, etc.) but that time hasn't come quite yet as far as I know.


The rest, again, I couldn't understand - I'm not trying to be mean or nasty or anything, but that's about all I can address from your post at this point.  Then again, where I am it is late at night right now, and I'm dead tired, which I'm sure also affects what I can read and understand...   

[Hertzila]

At the last part, I bet it has most to do with all those nasty bugs (you are using 2.3 right?). The Farm map is known to be bugged IIRC, though I don't know if it can affect walls and their covering. Either that or the dev team suddenly decided that plasma weapons should have build-in wallhacking as a buff.

@ Destructavator: I think it has a lot to do with you being tired. I have English as my second language and that text is understandable.

[gerald]

its no oxford quality probably,so all my english is learned by using english version of pc programs movies games and stuff like that
what i wanted to ask in 2rd part of my post,wchich is no understadeable for you: on map with farm are fences,ordinary wooden fences,  just wooden poles on wooden pillars.
and what is wrong for me,so  aliens shoot easily through them,my soldiers nope a bit wrong so high velocity sniper bullet should go through that fences easily.
if we take under consideration plasma bullets wchich (from research comes)are plasma bubbles closed in plastic film if it hit something,should burn through it but also lost its hot and disperse so will be less leathal.
its why was wrong for me aliens shoot through them with even low power plasma pistols and none of my weapons can go through(tooltip shows 0 % chance to hit)
i wanted to know is that ok or its need to be fixed.
about aliens superiority on start its alright,i probably compare too much that game to x com
thx for reply and hope that text is easier understadeable

[gerald]

At the last part, I bet it has most to do with all those nasty bugs (you are using 2.3 right?). The Farm map is known to be bugged IIRC, though I don't know if it can affect walls and their covering. Either that or the dev team suddenly decided that plasma weapons should have build-in wallhacking as a buff.

thx for,reply yes i use 2.3 version tried 2.2 but not much to do there:) i've readed much bout farm map bugs,just no saw nothing bout fences and it looks some weird.
surely i no see what are alien chances to shoot through ,but i saw their plasma pistols always burn through that.
when i try shoot with any weapons my soldiers using,bullets stop on that like on concrete wall.
its why i put that thread here,so i was no sure is that bug or is that what works ok.

[Vio]

It's just bugged. Often you can't even see through them.


Talikng about realism, I actually like the idea of needing to team up against the first aliens. It incrases the feeling of accomplishment when you win your first battle, or when you research more competitive weapons.

The story talks of entire batallions needed to repel a few Tamans, and the tech descriptions say things like "1 in 20 rockets hit". Considering that, the starting weapons are surprisingly effective.

There is of course the issue of gameplay, and new players' expectations. To them it has to be made absolutely clear that even the elite units are not supposed to be equally strong, and that they should plan on loosing a few men/craft, so they won't be frustrated by it.

To that end, it would also be helpful if planes could be damaged and cost money/time to repair instead of the current "all or nothing" approach.
This would create a more even expense of resources even in successful missions (as opposed to random losses) and encourage people to include this in their planning instead of making them save-load until things go perfectly.
The same holds true for auto-battles btw.

[Destructavator]

its no oxford quality probably,so all my english is learned by using english version of pc programs movies games and stuff like that

Yeah, now that it's morning here I looked back at your post a second time and now I get it - Hertzilla is right, and I'm sorry for picking on you like that.

Regarding the topics,

I could imagine that if a group of aliens were at a site first before a dropship arrives (which is usually the case, except base attacks), the aliens would take some time to pick strategic spots when they see the dropship landing and get ready to blast anything that steps out of it.

I agree with Vio, I think it makes sense in the early missions for a need to fight harder to win, or perhaps even lose an occasional mission here or there, at least until research is done on better equipment to fight with.

...and that they should plan on loosing a few men/craft

I'm behind this point - I've seen some players who almost refuse to ever lose even one unit or else they go back to a saved game, usually the same people who like to save after every single move, many times in a turn in the original X-COM or similar games, and I think such behavior takes the fun out of it - It's much better in games like this to "loosen up" and lose a little from time to time.

To that end, it would also be helpful if planes could be damaged and cost money/time to repair instead of the current "all or nothing" approach.

I haven't checked the wiki real recently, but I'm guessing this will be implemented at some point, it sure makes sense.

Auto-battles I know will be re-worked and re-coded with something more elaborate, at some point.

[gerald]

Talikng about realism, I actually like the idea of needing to team up against the first aliens. It incrases the feeling of accomplishment when you win your first battle, or when you research more competitive weapons.

i agree,as i said maybe i compare much things to x com:)anyway what i wrote in other topic would be nice if ships will have different numbers of crews and differently equipped,i understood harvester is coming with heavily armed squad so they probably expect resistance and want make their mission clear and easy .
 fighter or scout rather no have on board passengers and have pilot,navigator,gunner,dunno hehe an scientist if scout and they should rather be armed with light weaponry.
it can give us point of trying get out little ship if we cannot take out harvy or we have big casualties on that.
i wanted ask bout something yet,i saw bit about that somewhere but cannot dig that thread now
what about emergency withdraw from mission? will be that implemented so dropship can dustoff with all crew and equipo wchich is currently on board like was in x com and terror ?

and hehe Destructavator no worry really i was writing that text about 3 Am so is my fault it looks like that  hehe

[odie]

Wohoooo.... this is the MOST incredibly "squashed" text in the first entry! Haha. I have English as my first language and i tot i was reading my local slang's english (called Singlish, which really is mainly english, but with many replaced words in hokkien, cantonese, hakka, malay, chinese, accents, la, le, lor, etc....) here. Lol.

not sure if it should be in that topic if no pls move
whats weird for me is how much Tu's aliens have and just from start saw many time as aliens shoot reaction fire 5-6 shoots well i know they uber dangerous and stuff but as for me kinda too uber as for first mission another thing:2 my solds stood few meters away from doors they look at doors taman come thru doors armed with kerrblade they shoot wounding him twice and he come easily to em and kill one...well things like that happenned in x com and other such games but never just from start i wont compare or so dont take me wrong just wanting to know if that thingy in ver 2.3.3 is balanced already or it will be done in future and one more thing on map with farm are fences aliens seem to be same height as humans at least tamans they shoot easily thru that wooden fences while my soldiers have 0 chance to shoot through is that about plasma weap going thru that and my bullets or lasers nope?

I ma breaking it down..... (bored to max here, and no, i am no English master. lol just plain bored).

not sure if it should be in that topic if no pls move

First, gerald is not sure if this is the right place to post the Topic, because if its not, will the Mods kindly move it to the appropriate place.

whats weird for me is how much Tu's aliens have and just from start saw many time as aliens shoot reaction fire 5-6 shoots well i know they uber dangerous and stuff but as for me kinda too uber as for first mission another thing:2 my solds stood few meters away from doors they look at doors taman come thru doors armed with kerrblade they shoot wounding him twice and he come easily to em and kill one...

gerald finds a certain behaviour in the game very weird and strange.
The behaviour observed was when he (his soldiers) encountered the first aliens - the taman.
They (the taaaaaaa-man) have incredibly high amount of TUs compared to aliens!
Why so? Thats because their TUs allowed them to shoot up to 5,6 times in a single turn.
As much as gerald understands the danger of these taman, but this illustration will *abcxyz* you:

• Place 2 soldiers in front of a door, with the intention to ambush a taman.
• taman comes through the door indeed, triggering reaction fires from both soldiers.
• taman gets shot, hurt but not dead, and advances towards soldiers.
• *CLANG* goes the kerrblade, and VOILA! 1 soldier down, with the next soldier's life on hanging on a thin thread.

well things like that happenned in x com and other such games but never just from start i wont compare or so dont take me wrong just wanting to know if that thingy in ver 2.3.3 is balanced already or it will be done in future and

Well, gerald also observes that such thing (see bulleted scenario above) does happen even in the original X-com and other similar games, but ...... never from the start (aka start of game).

However, he is not trying to impose the same style in terms of comparison with the other games, but his intention was probably trying to clarify and find out, if the 2.3 (editor's note: there is no 2.3.3 btw) version of UFOAI has been balanced (or will be in the future).

(Editor's note again, this will be balanced in the far future for sure..... not for now).

one more thing on map with farm are fences aliens seem to be same height as humans at least tamans they shoot easily thru that wooden fences while my soldiers have 0 chance to shoot through is that about plasma weap going thru that and my bullets or lasers nope?

gerald's last point was something to do with maps relating to the Farms.... (editor's note: Arghhhh, not the darn farm maps again, haha. Nothing abt the mappers / maps developers. Just that this is REALLY plaguing us like the darn H1N1).

Back to the farms, fences are observed and presumed to be the same height as humans, whilst taman seemed to be much taller. Why so?

Taman, who are 'taller', can fire over the fence at humans.
Humans on the other hand, cant ever see these bastards and cannot ever shot these taaaaaaaaaaa-man (ok, i went overboard using it the 2nd time taaaa-ing these taman).

Then again, gerald also considered another possibility:
Could it be that the weapons the taman are using are plasma based, hence having the capabilities of firing through the fences at the humans whilst human's pathetic weapons cant do so.

(editor's note, again....: Then again, if they can shoot thru these fences, will they not create a hole where humans can return fire? lol...... oki, more info here: Our objects are not yet destructable, but there have been talks abt making objects within the maps destructable like Xcom).....


There u have it. haha. Spent 20 mins doing this post. Thats how bored i was......

[gerald]

haha good translating odie thx u it was exactly what i wanted to say
and seriously im really sorry for trouble,i've writed that early morning after series of looong testing

[odie]

haha good translating odie thx u it was exactly what i wanted to say
and seriously im really sorry for trouble,i've writed that early morning after series of looong testing

Hehe, no problem!

Btw, past tense of write is wrote. Its not writed. I know how weird english can be. Lol. I have a whole list of tears jerkers (from laughters) for those.

Maybe i might just want to post one in the offtopic section! Lol.

[gerald]

well tried new version...
i no like easy playing also but some things here works weird really.
phalanx are elite forces from i,ve readed and they behave like guys who have guns 1st time in his hands,
on opposite side aliens are just superheroes and sundance kids shooting pistols from 2 hands dust ur squad before soldiers can take cover lol.
got situation where alien killed me thru wooden wall with kerrblade,but if u try to shoot through that no chance heh.
another thing dunno if that aliens teleporting or so but got soldier in room with 1 door,he reserved points for reaction burst fire,alien wchich was on corridor outside just dissapeared then apeeared back just in front of soldier then poof kill lol.
i talk bout start of game all time i wonder what will be when new alien races come think phalanx should give up lol or at least intro should change text a bit to shall we say:here commander ur bunch of half blind rookies wchich even no saw gun in their lives

[Gunner]

well tried new version...
i no like easy playing also but some things here works weird really.
phalanx are elite forces from i,ve readed and they behave like guys who have guns 1st time in his hands,
on opposite side aliens are just superheroes and sundance kids shooting pistols from 2 hands dust ur squad before soldiers can take cover lol.
got situation where alien killed me thru wooden wall with kerrblade,but if u try to shoot through that no chance heh.
another thing dunno if that aliens teleporting or so but got soldier in room with 1 door,he reserved points for reaction burst fire,alien wchich was on corridor outside just dissapeared then apeeared back just in front of soldier then poof kill lol.
i talk bout start of game all time i wonder what will be when new alien races come think phalanx should give up lol or at least intro should change text a bit to shall we say:here commander ur bunch of half blind rookies wchich even no saw gun in their lives

that one struck me as weird to, but when you ask a unit to give there best people to be transferred to another unit alot of them will try and get rid of the misfits. so if you really did create a military force from scratch the soldiers you end up with would probably be the ones no one else wants

the film The Cockleshell Heroes deals with a similar situation during Operation Frankton of WW2

[gerald]

its understandable but i hope it will be rebalanced a bit just got today situation when my sold fired 3 burst from laser rifle on alien,there was 1 sqare distance and he missed..... he got 28 assault proficiency....i proly need take care bout what they drink or smoke before action lol.
another thingy is aliens have weirdly much action points,i understood so they have great technology but are they running or pushing triggers 10 times quicker than humans?
and all time im talking bout races we met on start.
and well when we get their technology so our armours and weaps are same or comparable why we still so away behind them?i mean behind them in training our troops so being behind em in science is fully understandable.

[odie]

its understandable but i hope it will be rebalanced a bit just got today situation when my sold fired 3 burst from laser rifle on alien,there was 1 sqare distance and he missed..... he got 28 assault proficiency....i proly need take care bout what they drink or smoke before action lol.
another thingy is aliens have weirdly much action points,i understood so they have great technology but are they running or pushing triggers 10 times quicker than humans?
and all time im talking bout races we met on start.
and well when we get their technology so our armours and weaps are same or comparable why we still so away behind them?i mean behind them in training our troops so being behind em in science is fully understandable.

Well, dear gerald and others,

Please take note that we are working on getting mechanics of game up and running w/o bugs as of now, while keeping it as playable and 'balanced' as possible.

But be informed that the balancing part is very much out of the focus right now, but however WILL BE addressed (and is already noted anyway) in the future once everything is more or less settled down.

Maybe if u wish, i would encourage u to look into the codes, and make suggestions as to what gets balanced for now? For example u mentioned the soldier's stats? U might want to thnk this thru for us, and see what kinda starting stats might be "good enuf"?

On the other hand, u could also bear with it and continue playing? And yes, point is already noted (me inclusive is bearing with these) and will not be ignored.

Balancing has also been the talk of many threads, esp the overpowered grenade launchers (which i deliberately not include on my team, using rocket launchers instead for tat good old KABISH.... zzzz..... BOOM effect! Lol). Unless one wpn is grossly over/under balanced, we probably stick with what we have for now, for a while. More impt issues the devs need to be looking at..... sorry, but we are only able to do so much with so mani ppl.

Join the force?