General > Discussion
Some ideas
odie:
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 06, 2009, 10:33:12 pm ---yea, thats the whole point behind my ideas on new mission types...the current stable version(2.1) kinda does only have "hunt aliens + cover civilians" as objective...and the game dosent take too much to become monotone (repeating "same mission" over and over)...
--- End quote ---
Hi Digin,
I saw your initial post, but refrained to comment as i was unwell then.
Now i am back and see more of your post.
First off, let me also welcome you to the forum. Let me assume first and foremost that you have made the posts so far out of concern and wishing a sooner stable release. But I have to say u have been at best misinformed and not understood the development plans.
I am not part of the development's team, but I believe the following might help u understand this project better:
Next, i have a question for you - Have u went thru the tons of threads here (in other topics too) about the development plans? Have u tried out some of the current 2.3 development builts (or downloaded the SVN and built em yourself to try out?). (At least i have a stickied thread with alot of the current builts - though do not expect them to be stable, as it was built primarily and painstakingly to help beta testers root out the bugs, AND to keep the anxious excited with 'peeks' into future 2.3 stable release).
3rdly, Have u checked out the roadmaps for this project? As in what the developers are looking to release in 2.3?? Maybe you should.
The first point you made already sounded like u haven seen any of those before you 'suggested'.
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 06, 2009, 10:33:12 pm ---actualy, to talk the truth, i think the current "replay factor" is trash, if u played the game once, at the second time you play it is simply a perfect copy of the 1st...even alien positions become predictable enough to be able to play in hard with just a bunch of flashbangs, smoke grenades and a knife as equipment of the soldiers, and still get 5+ survivors even in open-camp maps...(and yes, im talking very very seriously aboult that...give it a try if u never did...)
--- End quote ---
This is what i meant by ignorance factor - Balancing is still not in the roadmap and hence not done. i am sure in the future, it would not be the same 'predictable' behaviour. Why? Cos there have been tons of improvements made to the AI Scripts of aliens and civilians already.
Btw, you are on v 2.1? Why did u not play 2.2.1 (the latest release)?? Have u been misinformed that 2.1 is the latest stable release?
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 06, 2009, 10:33:12 pm ---at last mission types are much easyer to implement than most things, and they would add some real punch-up to the games replay factor...improving alien spawnpoints would make theyr starting positions less predictable and help too...there are maps on 2.1 that just have 2 sets of spawnpoints...man, there is a scenario where my snipers take 5 aliens down before the 3rd turn...3 of em at the very 1st turn sometimes...so, seriously, this game needs some real improvements on the replay factor...
--- End quote ---
Again, maybe i attribute this point to misinformation. Try the 2.2.1 version and see if this negates this point ok? :D
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 06, 2009, 10:33:12 pm ---another important point is that its taking way too much time for new releaces to come out...the latest stable version is already 1 year old!...the developer team is packing way too much improvements before next releasse...
--- End quote ---
Well, I forgive the poor spellings since your native lang is not english. Why is it so long? They have an objective to meet - Roadmaps: Which is why u should see them.
And another is to read and follow the threads - there is a current major bug which needs to be resolved before it can be released. And the big bug that we all know here (except u perhaps)? Its called PATHFINDING. And only 2 of the developers are actually familiar with them, and working on em day in day out furiously (AND without $$$, lest u forget). And they have full time jobs too. Understand that!
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 06, 2009, 10:33:12 pm ---guys! one improvement-pack at a time!
no need for a 100% remastered game per releasse!
do you notice that this way, the time that it usualy takes to releasse a new version in other games, you are going to spend JUST FIXING BUGS of your releasse?
--- End quote ---
PS: Let me remind u that despite languages, having bolded and underlined text = rude netiquette. Maybe i can suggest u take an online course here - Netiquette 101[/quote]
Back to the points u actually made. Well, see my points slightly above - A MAJOR BUG has to be FIXED first before its called STABLE RELEASE.
Whats the point of releasing a "stable release" when we all can predict a bug (or BUGS for tat matter) and let everyone (and fans esp) be disappointed?
Hence, quoting geever -
--- Quote ---Making orders doesn't make a sense here.
--- End quote ---
Dun make orders. Do your homework and then offer help, instead of making comments like yours ok?
~Empty Vessel Makes the Most Noise~
Borsti67:
--- Quote from: Winter on July 07, 2009, 02:21:09 am ---Every time somebody moans about hurrying up the release, we add another 6 months. And kill a kitten.
--- End quote ---
mwahaha ;D
PhilRoi:
--- Quote from: Borsti67 on July 07, 2009, 02:09:13 pm ---mwahaha ;D
--- End quote ---
ohh nnoooo,, puhleease think of the kittens!!!!!!!
Digin_BR:
aboult the 2.1 -> 2.1.1 things (quoting them all is useless)...
well, by 2.1 i was meaning the 2.1.1 from the very start...tought it wasnt that important to specify the current version that much...as you can see by yourselves, its very clear everyone knows 2.1.1 is the last stable...
--------------------
aboult the "dont order" related comments...i wasnt ordering nothing...you do your work by yourselves and on your own responsability...if it sounded like ordering/commanding, sorry me, that was way NOT the intention...
--------------------
aboult the "implementing mission types is easyer than most things" related comments...
well, the simple fact is that i, in over 4 years of modding at various games, including 2 on command&conquer series, "Mount & Blade", and "Half-Life 2"/VSE (Valve Source Engine), i have never ever meet a single game where it was easyer to work with the game physics than to work mission types...
i can say from my modding time, THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS EASYER THAN MODDING MISSION-TYPES...most of those are related to artwork more than coding (new equipments, user-interfaces, ...)
i do realise that in UFO: AI, modding equipment and objects(needed for the mission-types i proposed) seems way much harder than in most games...
actualy, in "Mount & Blade", it was kinda just create the weapon/shield 3D model, texture it, put the damage/speed/resistance values in a .txt file and add a line in another .txt file...i could easily create over 4 non-bugged, fully-usable weapons/shields every day...this for creating a 100% new weapon...i could mod all equipments in the game with values compatible and realistic to the mod within 24h...the easyest equipment-related modding i ever worked at...
but still, i am pretty sure that implementing mission-types is way, WAY HELL, more worth the worktime (due to the high add on games "replay" factor, with means reducing the feeling of repeating same things when u play by the second time and take much less time than improving other things to reach that high add)...
i wasnt being arrogant, or at last i didnt had any intention on being...and the simple fact is that i really dont have any idea on how hard it is to mod/add gametypes in UFO: AI engine...i havant given it a try yet...but in the other hand, from my experience with modding other games, i was predicting modding/adding missions and mission-types would be easyer here as they have been easyer in the other games...
if im really wrong aboult that, and u guys do really guarantee me that in UFO: AI its actualy harder instead of easyer, then i can just say im really sorry for my mistake...
--------------------
--- Quote from: Winter on July 07, 2009, 02:21:09 am ---Every time somebody moans about hurrying up the release, we add another 6 months. And kill a kitten.
So, kindly adopt a more respectful tone and let our coders get the hell on with things. They know what needs to be done, and if that involves long waits between releases, then I support them completely.
Regards,
Winter
--- End quote ---
at my vision, i was not being unrespectfull with the game DEVs...and in my opinion...no, they dont know exactly what people wants unless they tell em...they know how to do theyr job, but theyr job is to implement the most-wanted features as soon as possible...and that feature is currently clearly "replay factor improvement", by the tons of threads i seen before posting this one...
i just dont think that theyr using theyr worktime with the best efficiency...i seen in the beta-threads that, for the best improvements of replay factor, theyr working at AI more than at mission-types...and AI, at all games i modded at, was harder to improve than mission-types to implement...while both give the game almost the same improvement of replay factor...
if theyr working for the best of the UFO: AI players, i also do support theyr delay on releassing stable versions, no doubt... ;)
but if theyr wasting time implementing features that require loads of worktime while there are improvements that are much more worth it waiting, then i wanna let em know my disaproval on the delay... :-\
--------------------
aboult if i tryed 2.3 builds out...yea i did, and the GUI, AI and equipment improvements are really cool...but the replay factor is still very far away from the desired...it needs some real quick punch-up...but its already 3 times better than the 2.1.1 replay factor...so i can only say to the DEVs...keep up the good work at improving the game...the replay factor improvement is just as expected for a game releasse, and the other improvements are actualy more than i expected from a game releasse...but taking the delay into count, the improvement on replay factor is little under the expectations for such long worktime on the general improvement...
--------------------
again, i would like to say sorry for anything i sayd and that sounded wrongly...as i sayd in the starting post, my language isnt english, i sometimes think one thing and my wrightening means that thinking completely different...
Regards, Digin_BR.
EDIT: and now that im a little more used to the game main consepts, i will start working on modding it... but i dont have much available time for gamming, so ill start by helping at the 3D models, with i see your seeking for replacements and working on the advanced armors...i can also share some of the textures sources i have, with provide textures free (for both public and commercial use) that can be used as base for the textures of the models needed...as well as to replace some textures by more realistic ones if needed...(rocks, ground, walls, blood splaters, ... everything u might think of)
ill post my 3D work as well as the texture-sources at a thread on the artwork section...probably tomorow or todays night(brazil time)
geever:
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 07, 2009, 05:14:09 pm ---... its very clear everyone knows 2.1.1 is the last stable...
--- End quote ---
Still wrong version. :P
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 07, 2009, 05:14:09 pm ---aboult the "dont order" related comments...i wasnt ordering nothing...you do your work by yourselves and on your own responsability...if it sounded like ordering/commanding, sorry me, that was way NOT the intention...
--- End quote ---
Then don't use bold and underscored at the same time, it was shouting..
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 07, 2009, 05:14:09 pm ---aboult the "implementing mission types is easyer than most things" related comments...
well, the simple fact is that i, in over 4 years of modding at various games, including 2 on command&conquer series, "Mount & Blade", and "Half-Life 2"/VSE (Valve Source Engine), i have never ever meet a single game where it was easyer to work with the game physics than to work mission types...
i can say from my modding time, THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS EASYER THAN MODDING MISSION-TYPES...most of those are related to artwork more than coding (new equipments, user-interfaces, ...)
i do realise that in UFO: AI, modding equipment and objects(needed for the mission-types i proposed) seems way much harder than in most games...
actualy, in "Mount & Blade", it was kinda just create the weapon/shield 3D model, texture it, put the damage/speed/resistance values in a .txt file and add a line in another .txt file...i could easily create over 4 non-bugged, fully-usable weapons/shields every day...this for creating a 100% new weapon...i could mod all equipments in the game with values compatible and realistic to the mod within 24h...the easyest equipment-related modding i ever worked at...
but still, i am pretty sure that implementing mission-types is way, WAY HELL, more worth the worktime (due to the high add on games "replay" factor, with means reducing the feeling of repeating same things when u play by the second time and take much less time than improving other things to reach that high add)...
--- End quote ---
I don't think modding equipment is difficult with UFO:AI.
About mission types: Yes they were suggested before and may happen in the future but it's not a priority. Our game is far from finished.
--- Quote from: Digin_BR on July 07, 2009, 05:14:09 pm ---at my vision, i was not being unrespectfull with the game DEVs...and in my opinion...no, they dont know exactly what people wants unless they tell em...they know how to do theyr job, but theyr job is to implement the most-wanted features as soon as possible...and that feature is currently clearly "replay factor improvement", by the tons of threads i seen before posting this one...
i just dont think that theyr using theyr worktime with the best efficiency...i seen in the beta-threads that, for the best improvements of replay factor, theyr working at AI more than at mission-types...and AI, at all games i modded at, was harder to improve than mission-types to implement...while both give the game almost the same improvement of replay factor...
--- End quote ---
"their job is to implement the most-wanted features as soon as possible" <- You are wrong with this, really!
"i just dont think that theyr using theyr worktime with the best efficiency" <- WTF? Worktime? We're doing it in our free time for free.
-geever
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