Line of sight Vs Line of Fire

[Darkpriest667]

cocunut ive pointed out several flaws in the combat however they dont want to change from their precious quake engine..

so you cant do nifty things like shoot through walls... shoot at something you can see etc... nothing to be done about it but accept it for what it is.. which is what ive done..


it is a beautiful game..

[BTAxis]

Do you mean firing from the shoulder? I'm not sure now.

Err, yeah. My bad. I meant we have no animation for firing from the shoulder.

[BTAxis]

cocunut ive pointed out several flaws in the combat however they dont want to change from their precious quake engine..

It's not that we love the Quake engine so much, it's just that switching to another engine is not worth the massive work involved. For one thing, we'd have to redo all the maps from scratch, and that's just one aspect.

[Coconut Jonlan]

Err, yeah. My bad. I meant we have no animation for firing from the shoulder.

forgive my ignorance, but does it actually need an animation in order to fix the issue?
The original Xcom series managed to nail down some very simple but logical and effective LOS/LOF rules with a simple 1 frame "point gun" animation - if you can call that an animation

[BTAxis]

Well, no. It doesn't need an animation, strictly speaking. But witout one, it'll look silly, as the point of fire won't match with the gun barrel.

[Coconut Jonlan]

Well, no. It doesn't need an animation, strictly speaking. But witout one, it'll look silly, as the point of fire won't match with the gun barrel.

perhaps - but considerably less silly that the situation shown in the picture in the OP, and not having an ani doesn't affect gameplay - having iffy LOF rules does.
Original Xcom had all manner of clunky rules - like shots spewing out of the weapon at wierd angles because the sodliers could only face in 8 directions - but it worked because it made the gameplay more realistic

[BTAxis]

You may be right, but believe me, if we changed the fire point without changing the animation, we'd never hear the end of it. besides, the LOF rules aren't "iffy". They're perfectly sensible. It's just that firing from the hip isn't, for a lot of weapons.

[CapnKill]

You may be right, but believe me, if we changed the fire point without changing the animation, we'd never hear the end of it. besides, the LOF rules aren't "iffy". They're perfectly sensible. It's just that firing from the hip isn't, for a lot of weapons.

I would find it strange if someone complained about this type of fix.  I mean, sure sometimes in X-Com things looked a bit odd when lasers flew out of the gun at funny angles, but the most important thing is being able to shoot the alien in the window so we forgave the rest as long as the end result is what we expected. 

BTW< what programing language would one need to know to be able to assist with this project?

[geever]

I would find it strange if someone complained about this type of fix.  I mean, sure sometimes in X-Com things looked a bit odd when lasers flew out of the gun at funny angles, but the most important thing is being able to shoot the alien in the window so we forgave the rest as long as the end result is what we expected. 

I'm sure they would complain!

BTW< what programing language would one need to know to be able to assist with this project?

The game is developed in pure C.

ps. Whatabout leaving this topic? It's so annoying; complains and complains.....

-geever

[CapnKill]

I'm sure they would complain!

The game is developed in pure C.

ps. Whatabout leaving this topic? It's so annoying; complains and complains.....

-geever

Oh I just mainly want to know what I can and can't do... if I sound like I'm complaining about anything then I apologize. 

On a side note, if there is someone out there that would rather not have the ability to shoot the alien in the window just because it wouldn't "look good" when the laser left the rifle, then they should be slapped. 

[vedrit]

Agreed. Perhaps there can be a fix to the firing. Being able to adjust what the actor targets. If the actor can see the head, and only the head, then we should be able to target the actor bone "head" (I dont know what your doing for animations and labeling, etc), or shoulder, or chest. Arm or hand hits could disarm, whereas leg hits could slow or disable.
The particulars, IMO, could wait till things are worked out a little smoother, but the targeting body parts seems entirely plausible.

[BTAxis]

That's been discussed and decided against.

[Coconut Jonlan]

I would find it strange if someone complained about this type of fix.  I mean, sure sometimes in X-Com things looked a bit odd when lasers flew out of the gun at funny angles, but the most important thing is being able to shoot the alien in the window so we forgave the rest as long as the end result is what we expected. 

Of course the aliens can shoot back atcha too - which could be bloody murder walikng past - or trying to look through - those little windows in the base control centre - 3 reaction snapshots from a heavy plasma at point blank?  3 dead soldiers.

I'm not suggesting anyone go nuts and start programming ways to target individual body parts - that's over-complicating things - but if there's an obviously clear LOS to a straightforward killshot - head and/or chest - particularly if it's at close range - then LOF should be permitted too simple as that..
here's another screenshot of LOF denied just in case I haven't laboured the point enough already 



[attachment deleted by admin]

[CapnKill]

Of course the aliens can shoot back atcha too - which could be bloody murder walikng past - or trying to look through - those little windows in the base control centre - 3 reaction snapshots from a heavy plasma at point blank?  3 dead soldiers.

I'm not suggesting anyone go nuts and start programming ways to target individual body parts - that's over-complicating things - but if there's an obviously clear LOS to a straightforward killshot - head and/or chest - particularly if it's at close range - then LOF should be permitted too simple as that..
here's another screenshot of LOF denied just in case I haven't laboured the point enough already 

How do you get a FPS view like that... are you in game or the map editor?

And yes I agree, I mean it is unfair that an alien in a window can shoot at you but you can't shoot at him because of the ledge...  Someone was saying that you can use Shift to move the target up?... what is that about, would that solve the problem?

[BTAxis]

but if there's an obviously clear LOS to a straightforward killshot - head and/or chest - particularly if it's at close range - then LOF should be permitted too simple as that..

That's the thing though. It ISN'T as simple as that. The game doesn't think in terms of "if there is an obvious LOS..." or "straightforward killshot". It uses routines to trace lines from one point to another, and it can detect if that line is interrupted by geometry or not. That's all we have to work with, basically. You don't seem to realize that computers don't work like humans.

How do you get a FPS view like that... are you in game or the map editor?

You can press V for first person view. Bear in mind though that this feature is scheduled to be axed and replaced by something else.

And yes I agree, I mean it is unfair that an alien in a window can shoot at you but you can't shoot at him because of the ledge...  Someone was saying that you can use Shift to move the target up?... what is that about, would that solve the problem?

No, it only shifts the target height, not the source height.