Line of sight Vs Line of Fire

[Coconut Jonlan]

Its mostly pretty good, but it does have some very silly moments when windows or waist level obstacles are involved - it seems that line of fire is only permitted when there is a clear line of sight to the centre of the alien's body.

I've attached an example of one of the silliest examples of this I've come  across to date - I could spit on the alien - reach through the window to shake his hand - but I can't shoot him.

Any plans to fix this? can it be fixed.?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[geever]

Not in the near future IMO.

-geever

[Coconut Jonlan]

Not in the near future IMO.

-geever

Shame - such a gaping flaw in the combat engine seems like a pretty big issue to me - although a simple work around might fix it, simply have all terrain items either the same height as the characters - or remove them

[BTAxis]

If you can fix it, feel free. If not, you're just going to have to live with it.

[vedrit]

you can change where your unit shoots. Just hit shift. It may only go up and down, but in that kind of a shot, thats all that matters

[Coconut Jonlan]

If you can fix it, feel free. If not, you're just going to have to live with it.

Interesting comment BTA - are you saying that posting feedback in the feedback forum is pointless 

@vedrift - thanks for the tip 

[BTAxis]

Interesting comment BTA - are you saying that posting feedback in the feedback forum is pointless 

Basically, yeah. What did you expect, that we'd come running and fix whatever you pointed out with top priority? We are QUITE aware of what goes on in our own game. If it was something easy to fix, we'd have done so long ago.

So yeah. You want to see something changed, your best bet is to do something about it. Join the crew. Help make the game better. If you don't have the skill, learn. That's how things happen around here.

[Coconut Jonlan]

Basically, yeah. What did you expect, that we'd come running and fix whatever you pointed out with top priority? We are QUITE aware of what goes on in our own game. If it was something easy to fix, we'd have done so long ago.

So yeah. You want to see something changed, your best bet is to do something about it. Join the crew. Help make the game better. If you don't have the skill, learn. That's how things happen around here.

So I guess you'll be removing the word feedback from the title of this subforum then, if, like you say, it's pointless giving it

[BTAxis]

No, but I'm considering removing you if you continue being an ass.

[Coconut Jonlan]

No, but I'm considering removing you if you continue being an ass.
[/quote

Apologies BTAxis - I mistook the point of this forum - I assumed that the developers were using it as a form of UAT

[vedrit]

Coconut, while the devs are quite busy with important stuff (Just wondering, BTW, why has the pathfinding system changed? What was wrong with the one in 2.2?), some users post new stuff that the devs might not have seen in the game. If its a big enough problem, then yeah, something might be done about it ASAP. But where this is just a "Hey, why cant I shoot what I see?" thing, it will have to wait to be done along with the other "small details"

Dont get upset, and dont get angry. Just sit back, post or update what you find in-game, and trust that the devs will properly prioitize

[BTAxis]

Note that "ASAP" might not be very soon. We rely solely on volunteer work, and sometimes people just don't have time (or the know-how) to look at a problem. That's why development is as slow as it is, and that's why it's more useful to come up with a solution by oneself than to post feedback.

[Coconut Jonlan]

Coconut, while the devs are quite busy with important stuff (Just wondering, BTW, why has the pathfinding system changed? What was wrong with the one in 2.2?), some users post new stuff that the devs might not have seen in the game. If its a big enough problem, then yeah, something might be done about it ASAP. But where this is just a "Hey, why cant I shoot what I see?" thing, it will have to wait to be done along with the other "small details"

Dont get upset, and dont get angry. Just sit back, post or update what you find in-game, and trust that the devs will properly prioitize

Just my opinion vedrit - but a moderately realistic combat engine would seem to be somewhat more than a "small detail" and therefore fairly high on the priority list.
Different people will enjoy different aspects of this game, however combat is at least 50% of its appeal.
It seems that LOS is perhaps a little oversensitive - revealing aliens when a member of your squad can just see a few pixels of it, and/or LOF is undersensitive - denying what should be very obvious clear shots.
I appreciate that this is a volunteer project and that the team involved have to make do with the skills of the people involved - and as is often the case it tends to be heavy on people with skills in the easier, quicker, or more fun stuff like graphics and user interface work than it is on the more difficult/ less sexy aspects.
I wasn't annoyed because this isn't seen as a priority - I was annoyed because the response I got was rather curt and unconstructive - if all we get when feeding back what we perceive to be an issue with an aspect of the game is some variation of "code it yourself or STFU" then really, what is the point of making the effort?

Of course had I asked a question that's been asked and explained a million times before (I won't mention it but you know the one I'm talking about ) I might have deserved that

[BTAxis]

As far as I know, firing and LOS use the same tracing code. However, LOS is from the actor's eyes while firing is from the hip (this is due to a lack of an animation for firing from the waistshoulder). The firing target is also limited to the center of a square, which makes it more sensitive to obstructions.

As for realism, I've always taken the view that gameplay should take precedence if the two are in conflict. This accounts for several design choices in this game, including, for example, the weapon ranges (which are realistically speaking ridiculous). I'm more concerned with making the game fun and challenging than with adding as much realism as possible. The more fine detail, the more tedious the game becomes, and that's a bad thing. That's why I opposed the proposal someone made to allow soldiers to rest their weapons on windowsills and aim them around corners and such (never mind that this isn't technically feasible). I prefer relatively simple rules and operations.

[Winter]

As far as I know, firing and LOS use the same tracing code. However, LOS is from the actor's eyes while firing is from the hip (this is due to a lack of an animation for firing from the waist).

Do you mean firing from the shoulder? I'm not sure now.

Regards,
Winter