General > Discussion
Weapons jamming
BTAxis:
Please don't. Make it a patch instead. It's not a good idea to make the game have different rules according to the options the player has set. We'd never live it down in multiplayer.
nemchenk:
Sure, I will post up a patch. Although, I would say it is not ideal -- patches are one step away from forks in terms of maintenance and duplicated effort :(
Should we be looking at the way multiplayer is done? The server should be distributing this kind of stuff prior to a game. Tech level, damage rules, map, music, skins... All should be set from the server.
Of course, you then end up with players crying foul because they suspect the server is a modified version :) Has UFO:AI reached that critical stage yet? "He keeps hitting with every shot, while I only shoot my own feet... Haxx0r!!" Ah, the goold old days of MegaMek... *chuckle*
Serrax:
@nemchenk:
--- Quote from: nemchenk ---@Serrax: Your own argument proves that while mainline troops don't really carry secondary weapons, special troops do.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, but light infantry does exactly the job, that the PHALANX squad does. 'Fight in urban area' - and no special force.
Physical superior and/or armored enemies even worse the situation. Secondary, smaller weapons are nearly useless.
--- Quote from: nemchenk ---@ Doctor J: I was thinking something like 5% jamming for full-auto or burst fire, less for semi-auto; it would depend on the weapon.
--- End quote ---
My experience: 5% jamming was normal for full-auto/burst fire and semi-auto for the G3 assault rifle - but these weapons were 15-35 years old. I consider the same jamming rate for the medium machine gun MG3 - at an age of 15 years. I never ever saw a new G36 jamming.
--- Quote from: nemchenk ---Would also be an excellent way of keeping the older "black powder" guns in the game, as backup weapons!
--- End quote ---
At a rate of 5% jamming?
--- Quote from: nemchenk ---I prefer the covert idea, but I respect the fact that other players may prefer the army idea. I believe it is about choice -- code that can be used either way with a simple option.
--- End quote ---
I cannot detect any convert tactics used by a PHALANX squad. Furthermore, the target - the aliens - are not a classic target for convert ops. And they know that the PHALANX squad arrived - a landing dropship is hardly to overlook.
cu
Doctor J:
--- Quote from: nemchenk on March 14, 2008, 04:41:52 pm ---@ Doctor J: I was thinking something like 5% jamming for full-auto or burst fire, less for semi-auto; it would depend on the weapon. Good point about the PHALANX-made weapons jamming -- they are indeed beta-weapons :P Would also be an excellent way of keeping the older "black powder" guns in the game, as backup weapons!
--- End quote ---
So you're looking into applying this 'per fire mode' as opposed to 'per bullet'. Okeh. Perhaps an average of one jam per twenty firings is still a might high, however. As a point of reference, the great board game "Squad Leader" started with a jam occurring on a roll of 12 with two six-sided dice, and modified the chance [mostly downward] as the game evolved. The 12 works out to be an average of one jam per 36 firings, or roughly 2.8%. This was higher for certain weapons, for example the failure rate of flamethrowers was 28%. Perhaps 2% for auto-fire and 1% for semi-auto, 3% for full-auto? Then again, this would be a good place for selective weapon balancing; cut the SMG down to size, for instance.
As a further thought, is the patch going to be applied so as to affect both reaction fire and normal fire? If it simplified the code base, i would be happy with it only taking effect on normal fire...
The next question is inevitably as to what happens with the weapon after a jam. Here are some ideas:
1) weapon is declared broken and removed from inventory [way harsh, but easy to do]
2) The weapon status becomes 'malfunction'. This would require that all firearms descriptions be amended to include a new status variable, as well as a decision on clearing/repairing. It also needs a way for users to check weapon status.
2a) weapon remains jammed for duration of mission, is automatically repaired upon return to base [still harsh, but easier to implement than following ideas]
2b) The weapon is automatically repaired after a certain number of turns. I don't yet have a suggestion as to how long this should be.
2c) The weapon carries the malfunction status until the soldier clears the jam by using his/her weapon skill. This is the most complex option to code, but forgiving to the player. It would require some modification to the user interface so the user can click on "Repair". At the end of the mission the weapon [if still broken] will have to be automatically repaired or automatically eliminated.
Doctor J:
--- Quote from: Serrax on March 14, 2008, 10:49:59 pm ---Sorry, but light infantry does exactly the job, that the PHALANX squad does. 'Fight in urban area' - and no special force.
<snip>
I cannot detect any convert tactics used by a PHALANX squad. Furthermore, the target - the aliens - are not a classic target for convert ops. And they know that the PHALANX squad arrived - a landing dropship is hardly to overlook.
--- End quote ---
I don't think it's so much about being covert. It's about not having a defined front line, reserves in the rear, etc. I suspect the reason the elite troops carry so much junk is that they have to be self-sufficient for the duration of the mission. This completely applies to PHALANX. Also, unlike a modern infantry unit, PHALANX troops are unable to call upon artillery, air support, and such like.
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