General > Discussion
Weapons jamming
Doctor J:
--- Quote from: Ildamos on March 13, 2008, 10:58:22 am ---I let my medics carry SMGs though.
Those are secondary weapons right? Haven't checked back in a while; vidcard got fried a week now.
--- End quote ---
The game puts them as a Secondary rather than primary. They require two hands, however, so i consider them [and the shotgun] to fill a intermediate position between rifles and pistols.
Doctor J:
I like the idea of an occasional weapon failure due to jam/overheat. The key being it should happen very rarely, perhaps 1:100 or less. I also think that the high tech toys will be susceptible as well. They have fewer moving parts, but also less time to engineer in improvements. If you were a soldier, would you like to have your life depend upon a "beta test" weapon? Anyway, given that there is resistance to the idea, perhaps implement it as an option the user can turn off/on from the configuration screen.
Doctor J:
--- Quote from: Serrax on March 12, 2008, 05:11:10 pm ---Let's have a look on the situation today... how many regular soldiers and how many special forces carry secondary weapons?
Afaik nearly none of them.
--- End quote ---
Do you have any way to back this statement up? When i served in the infantry during the 80s, every rifleman carried a bayonet as well. Every heavy weapons gunner carried a pistol AND a knife. I haven't yet talked to any servicemen coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan, but i'd be willing to bet that they want options when their life is on the line...
Concerning elite troops i can't speak for them but i consulted a book i had handy: NAM. According to it, U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers routinely carried the .45 caliber pistol in addition their main weapon and bayonet/knife/machete. There is a personal account in the book from a SpecOps soldier who carried an SMG, had both pistol and knife on the belt, and a sawed-off shotgun on top of his pack. U.S. Navy Seals were similar, except they replaced the .45 caliber with a silenced 9MM.
Serrax:
--- Quote from: Doctor J ---Do you have any way to back this statement up?
--- End quote ---
Yep. I served around 2000 in the Light Infantry of Germany. No one carried a secondary weapon - but the antitank squad. But these poor guys carried the (standard) G3 AND the rocket-launcher. ;D Furthermore, we met some american and european troops (light infantry) and none of them had secondary weapons.
BTW: I don't count a knife as 'secondary weapon'. A knife is a tool - and afaik the most modern 'bayonets' are simply knifes mountable on the assault rifle. Afaik have only the russian and chinese army still bayonets as standard equippent.
--- Quote from: Doctor J ---Concerning elite troops i can't speak for them but i consulted a book i had handy: NAM. According to it, U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers routinely carried the .45 caliber pistol in addition their main weapon and bayonet/knife/machete. There is a personal account in the book from a SpecOps soldier who carried an SMG, had both pistol and knife on the belt, and a sawed-off shotgun on top of his pack. U.S. Navy Seals were similar, except they replaced the .45 caliber with a silenced 9MM.
--- End quote ---
Secondary or special weapons are justified for some special forces - like SEAL. But hardly for 'no-stealth' troops - like the PHALANX squads.
cu
nemchenk:
All of the suggestions (weapon jams, encumberance, recoil, etc) I am planning to code up as completely optional features. If the UFO:AI devs and players do not want to use them, they would simply leave them at their default values. For example, weapons jamming/overheating would be set to 0% by default. The option would exist, however, for an alternative campaign to set them to another value.
@ Doctor J: I was thinking something like 5% jamming for full-auto or burst fire, less for semi-auto; it would depend on the weapon. Good point about the PHALANX-made weapons jamming -- they are indeed beta-weapons :P Would also be an excellent way of keeping the older "black powder" guns in the game, as backup weapons!
@ Serrax: Your own argument proves that while mainline troops don't really carry secondary weapons, special troops do. I think this is to do with their intended use. Special troops (and police units, for another example) have been carrying body armour for a long time as well. Longer than mainline troops anyway, precisely because of their unit size, vs the expected strength of their enemy.
So, it all boils down to whether PHALANX is a covert organisation fighting the Unknown Threat, or an elite army unit that is a part of the Big Picture. I prefer the covert idea, but I respect the fact that other players may prefer the army idea. I believe it is about choice -- code that can be used either way with a simple option.
I know I will be enabling the option myself :P Some may say that it makes the game more luck-based, but I like a slight edge of unpredictability -- keeps me on my toes! :D
Yours,
nemchenk
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