X-Com veteran's initial impressions...

[ceponatia]

Great game guys, I'm surprised to see something of this caliber released for free. Once you get the bugs worked out I think it'll be a lot better than the UFO:Aftermath series.

**The Engine**
Unfortunately the engine is probably going to be a huge drawback in the long-run. Terrain isn't destructible and that is a huge part of the tactical game. I remember grouping a squad around the exterior of a convenience store in UFO: Enemy Unknown and blasting through the wall with a grenade launcher and storming in to surprise the enemy. It is annoying to have to walk all the way around a building (several turns and even more with the reserved TU's) to get an alternate entrance.

**Civilian Death Cap**
I have two suggestions for this. First off is to make the civilian deaths completely irrelevant to the actual game length... set up a UN type system like in UFO Defense and when enough countries absolutely hate you then you lose. 20 or 40 civilians dying is nothing. That can happen in a handful of missions and I'm not the type that likes to rush through a game.
My second idea is that you decrease the amount allowed to die but reset it every month. As the missions get harder and more frequent you'll have to work harder to keep your monthly quota alive. Honestly when I saw that 40 civilians was the cap I was hoping that was a monthly figure.

**Interception**
A few problems with this... in the beginning it is basically impossible for your low tech ships to intercept a UFO and if they manage to their chances of winning are slim (in my experience anyway). Some of the missions are far enough away that your dropship can't reach them (even with 2 fuel tanks) and they just keep losing civilians (effectively making the game unwinnable) until you can research propulsion or make a new base. In the original games a troop transport could get to any spot on the planet and make it back, it just took a long time.

**Aircraft**
I actually love your aircraft system. I haven't gotten far enough into the game to really research new components yet but I like games where you can customize the loadout of ships and the like.

**Civilian AI**
Civilians are complete idiots in this game. If I was in a city under siege I would not run into a room that I had just heard shots being fired from or someone dying. Granted, they were complete idiots in every X-Com game as well... just wondering if you can improve it.

The thing that always bothered me about X-Com games is the way they end. If an alien race was trying to wipe us out I don't think that the governments of the world would suddenly stop funding the only defense we had against them just because 100 civilians died. In fiction novels and movies of this type you often see Earth's military fighting until the last city is lost. It would be COOL (though I don't expect this) if you could actually lose parts of the planet to the aliens and thus funding and resources. You'd be able to take these places back (sort of like an alien base mission) but it'd be difficult and time consuming. Though the loss of civilians poses an easy scoring system in the game... I just don't buy it. In a war for humanities survival, a handful of people are highly expendable.

[ceponatia]

Also something to make the game a bit harder but more realistic... I notice that when you hire recruits and buy equipment they arrive instantaneously. Perhaps you could set up a delivery system.

[Sai]

X-Com vet. here too, and while I haven't run into many of your issues, I did notice the extreme difficulty with which to shoot down an UFO;

So I wonder, how do I actually shoot down a UFO? Am I supposed to send a mass of interceptors, or are they just really tough and am I not supposed to shoot down one fast anyway?

This also brings me to my second point: since I can't shoot down UFOs, but they do appear and set the time to 5 seconds, this is extremely annoying - I've clicked more to get time going again than actual combat so to speak.

I'd also like to see an easier way to return to the previous page, especially with the UFOpedia, perhaps with backspace?

Oh, and it took me about 3-4 games to actually find the way (button) to build a new base, maybe make those buttons slightly more visible.

I think I'll wait for the next release before I continue playing for now, but it's looking pretty neat already!

[Kamuflaro]

I had a sneak peak in the svn... ufos retreated from my interceptors so I guess I could win if I was fast enough Also there is more randomness in the campaign start.
(hardest difficulty fails by bankrupt after building base *giggles*)

[Serrax]

@Sai:

X-Com vet. here too, and while I haven't run into many of your issues, I did notice the extreme difficulty with which to shoot down an UFO;

So I wonder, how do I actually shoot down a UFO? Am I supposed to send a mass of interceptors, or are they just really tough and am I not supposed to shoot down one fast anyway?

This also brings me to my second point: since I can't shoot down UFOs, but they do appear and set the time to 5 seconds, this is extremely annoying - I've clicked more to get time going again than actual combat so to speak.

Well, in the early game you've simply technology that is 50 years old. It's getting better with different types of interceptors (I love the Stingray).

There are two basic problems there:

1. Your interceptors are too slow to hunt the UFO down

The solution is: Tactic

I prefer the tactic to place 3 interceptors in a triangle around my base - they stay there until they have no fuel any more.

The advantage is, your interceptors will be able to attack nearly every UFO on your radar.
The problems are: To keep this patrol up, you'll have to do a lot of stupid donkeywork to replace all interceptors manually after they returned to base. Furthermore, you need 6-8 interceptors per base to keep this patrol up.

2. The interceptors are weak against medium UFOs (like the harvester)

You can use heavy armed Stilettos to raise your chance of interception - but they are slow and even with tactic you hardly get them into combat range.
Or you simply start 2 or 3 interceptors to get an UFO down.

BTW: As far as i know, armour don't work in v2.2.

cu

[Starship_Yard]

I've been reasonably successful with interceptions.  Key is waiting until the craft is close to your base.  Has to be within 1/2 radar range.  Get some Saracen's as fast as you can as they can often catch up with some of the UFO's.  Scouts and supply ships run as soon as you launch but harvesters turn in to attack.  I've managed to down harvesters with a single interceptor but I tend to loose the interceptor on its way back to base.  I use 2 Sparrowhawk missile launchers on each interceptor and add a Shiva if there is a 3rd space.  Might be further ahead though to have 3 Sparrowhawk missile launchers as Sparrowhawks have a 12-14km range versus 4km for TR-20 Rockets and 3km for Shiva.  Also add the targeting computer and Raven ECM.

Brett

[eleazar]

**The Engine**
...Terrain isn't destructible...

I has been made recently possible to destroy some objects on the map, but IIRC it hasn't yet been applied to very many objects.  So a certain amount of destructibility will be provided.


"**Civilian Death Cap**"
The plan is to remove the hard limit.  Civilian deaths will make that nation like you less, and thus lower your funding, but won't end the game.

**Civilian AI**
Civilians are complete idiots in this game. If I was in a city under siege I would not run into a room that I had just heard shots being fired from or someone dying. Granted, they were complete idiots in every X-Com game as well... just wondering if you can improve it.

It's recognized that the civilians are absolute idiots.  However making a non-idiot AI is not easy, or even possible for most people.

It would be COOL (though I don't expect this) if you could actually lose parts of the planet to the aliens and thus funding and resources.

Actually that's the plan.

[shevegen]

I agree about both the idiot part of the civilians and the count.

I think as long as the civiliasn behave like idiots, the number of allowed casualties should increase.
Right now they are so silly that they would fall off a cliff and die horribly, and the world believes its your fault!

[Zorlen]

Right now they are so silly that they would fall off a cliff and die horribly, and the world believes its your fault!

In UFO:Extraterrestrials civilians seem to deliberately seek refuge inside open flames or clouds of toxic gas! When I fired incediary or gas rocket, the affected area seemed to lure all civies around

On destructable objects - I think it would be nice to have alternate entrance options for some maps. At least those Quake2-style cracked walls that are destructable with gunfire.

[ceponatia]

Here's another idea that isn't really that important just neat... what about having an option in some missions to land troops on the roof or something? I noticed in maps like the supermarket that there are several floors of the building that really don't get used.. all the aliens are always on the first floor.

[Starship_Yard]

There are a number of maps that are top down where the Firebird lands on the top level and you work your way down.  Bunker Defense and Subway come to mind.  It is up to a map creator to set that up.  It isn't limited by the game.

Brett
 

[eleazar]

...all the aliens are always on the first floor.

I frequently see aliens on the roofs, though most of them are usually on the main level.

[Tasoth cmdr.]

--Oh, that civs! I just hate them! ))
Their presence usual kills tactical aspect of the battle. Instead of careful advance, accordinп to your great plan of operation you rush headlond to protect those lambs, covering them with your body, dyind, loading and the same story again and again.

--in old ufos there were movement detectors. And we really need them. There are huge levels with lots of rooms, hiding places and so on. I can spend half an hour to find the last alien

--destructable surface is good. but not to much. it would kill tactic!


--employees
Do we really need skins for workers, medics and scientists since they are all the same?!
i think better make some more faces for soldiers. (by the way does anyone notice, their heads are just a little too big, huh???)
And about hiring system -- why is a separate set of emloyees fo every base? i think better to have one set of available employees and few ours before hired men will be delivered to certain base.

[wotwot]

Some PROs first:

- I hated the aliens for camping in Enemy Unknown (UFO Defence). When I play AI, I dont feel like I have to spend ages to find some blop camping in closet in another side of the map.

- I feel that Aliens are more intelligent in AI that old XCOM-games, they allways save TUs for seeking cover for end of turn unlike in Enemy Unknown or Apocalypse. Damn they are good at it!

- I love the classic random map assembly!

- In all ways this game is going to be superior remake of old xcom-games once it gets more refined, keep it up!


EDIT: Just read about the aliens taking cover in end of turn if you are looking at them, one thing I didnt think of.. In a way it is a good thing but it also makes player to able to control them to a point because they ALLWAYS take cover. I think some randomness should be applied wheter they take cover or make a rush(if wielding close combat weapons) or stay in sight for saving TUs for reaction fire or just saving TUs for not to come out of hiding next turn to be able to shoot more..


Oaaargh! The forum lost my CONs.. Too lazy to write those again..

[Panthera Leo]

--destructable surface is good. but not to much. it would kill tactic!

In X-Com: Apocalypse I like (shooting/blasting), Vortex Mine FTW, though walls or down though the ceiling to ambush stuff.