Encumberance

[nemchenk]

I gather that the dev team is not keen on the XCOM way of dealing with encumbrance. Instead, a flat TU penalty for the various kinds of armour is proposed. Is there any more information on this? I would very much appreciate a pointer.

Would the dev consider a patch that implements the following solution:

* Every armour has a TU "Encumbrance penalty". This is set to a value for those campaigns that want to use it, or 0 by default.
* In addition, every item also has a "Weight", which defaults to 0. The added weights of an actor's equipment are compared to his Strength, with a TU penalty applied for carrying too much gear. Something simple like ( AvailableTUs + Strength - TotalWeight) would work for me.

This modification would let both systems co-exist. What do you think?

Edit: typo

[BTAxis]

I see no reason why it wouldn't work. My gripe with "classic" encumbrance is that strength is already (planned to be) used for a lot of other stuff. People want it to affect melee damage, recoil and throwing range, and probably some other stuff that I've missed. If strength also starts heavily influencing what equipment you can take on a mission, then strength becomes THE most important stat in the game, and I don't like that.

[nemchenk]

Fair enough. I can see how Strength could become the uber-stat. Some tuning would need to be done to address this.

If you don't want it to appear in the official UFO:AI campaign, though, just set it to 0. EDIT: or not define it at all! No extra work for the UFO:AI team. Would that not work for you?

[Neko]

Is there a way to find out how each skill works right now? The wiki seems to give the intended purpose, but how can one see the current status of the game without going through all the source code or reading all of the forum?

[nemchenk]

Neko, ask someone who has done it! I am only planning to...


I think there is also a slight variance between "attributes" and "skills".
Attributes:
Strength - my proposal would have it govern Encumberance, recoil, hand-to-hand damage, and thrown range
Speed - I would say have it govern Reaction Fire (both your and the enemy's), and movement/actions
Accuracy - well... accuracy
Mind - Learning, Morale, Promotion (skullduggery! ), use of non-Accuracy items.

I don't think Strength is uber in this kind of list. Speed is very important, as is Mind. Accuracy I could use some help with... 

[BTAxis]

Actually, what is "learning"? There is no such thing in the game...

As for the CURRENT list:
strength: not used.
speed: TUs.
accuracy: modifier to weapon spread, together with weapon skills.
mind: not sure.

[nemchenk]

I was "stealthily" implying the new experience code

[Neko]

Actually, what is "learning"? There is no such thing in the game...

As for the CURRENT list:
strength: not used.
speed: TUs.
accuracy: modifier to weapon spread, together with weapon skills.
mind: not sure.

Thank you, BTAxis, this is very helpful. I read somewhere that Mind is apparently important for promotion to higher ranks.

[BTAxis]

I was "stealthily" implying the new experience code

That doesn't use the mind stat, though. It could be made to, but I don't see why.

[eleazar]

My gripe with "classic" encumbrance is that strength is already (planned to be) used for a lot of other stuff.

So is there a list of what all these stats are planned to be used for?

Maybe i'm wrong, but this page doesn't seem to match what you've recently been saying

[BTAxis]

There's a lot of stuff in the wiki that's out of date. Pages get forgotten, and then when the plan changes nobody updates them.

And no, there's no list like that.

[nemchenk]

That doesn't use the mind stat, though. It could be made to, but I don't see why.

Because IQ is related to learning? Because it would help players identify with their soldiers if some were smart, others stupid; some willowy and quick, while others strong as an ox and as bright as one?

And no, there's no list like that.

shame

[BTAxis]

Because IQ is related to learning?

We've discussed this a while ago. Mind is *not* the same as intelligence. If it was, it wouldn't increase as a result of training.

Because it would help players identify with their soldiers if some were smart, others stupid; some willowy and quick, while others strong as an ox and as bright as one?

Not really, no. The skill increase is so slow that the player won't notice the difference. Besides, having soldier increase at different rates isn't worth it in my opinion. Too complicated for too little gain.

[nemchenk]

Because it would help players identify with their soldiers if some were smart, others stupid; some willowy and quick, while others strong as an ox and as bright as one?

Not really, no.

I must disagree. First, just to emphasise that identifying with their soldiers is a major part of the success of the XCOM games.

Now, do diverse soldiers help a player identify with the game? It depends on the player, I guess, but I think the answer has to be yes. Different names, faces, skills... all these things make the soldiers memorable, more than just pieces on a chessboard.

[nemchenk]

We've discussed this a while ago. Mind is *not* the same as intelligence. If it was, it wouldn't increase as a result of training.

That's a shame As I see it, there is no way of representing how smart a soldier is. When I think "Mind attribute", I think "intelligence, willpower, wisdom, cunning."

Mind is a representation of the mental training of a soldier. The better this attribute, the less likely a soldier is to panic, and the better the soldier is at psionic warfare. Moreover, the use of utility miscellaneous equipment, as well as mines, depends on this skill. Soldiers with weak minds should not count on fast promotions.

So, it seems that Mind is a kind of intelligence, as it leads to a better use of general "miscellaneous equipment" ?