General > Discussion

Weapon balancing/finetuning

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nemchenk:
Shouldn't the Spread affect "close" weapons more than their max range? The SMG may have a max range of 45 but, in my experience at least, it is very inefficient at anything over 5 hexes, as shots fly everywhere except at the target :P

Also, if the aliens fought back via Reaction Fire, the worth of "one shot, one kill" weapons would increase. At the moment, it's quite feasible to shoot something 5 times with the MP, but if that generated 5 reaction attacks it would not be such a great idea.

PS. well done for posting it, finally! :P

tobbe:

--- Quote from: nemchenk on February 17, 2008, 12:32:01 pm ---Shouldn't the Spread affect "close" weapons more than their max range? The SMG may have a max range of 45 but, in my experience at least, it is very inefficient at anything over 5 hexes, as shots fly everywhere except at the target :P
--- End quote ---

Right now spread works the same way for all weapons. The greater the distance, the more shots will miss. But right now, the spread of SMGs is lesser than the spread of full-auto assault rifles and MGs, while the MG and the Assault Rifle also need much more TUs to fire the full-auto.

I agree to the point, that SMGs become less efficient on medium distances, but than they are efficient enough on at least 10 squares due to their low TU-cost.

The SMG definitely needs most balancing, but before I start to develop specific ideas how to nerf this Uberweapon, I want to gather some general guidelines, where the SMG and all other weapons could fit in.

Example: If we can agree on limiting the range of all close weapons, while allowing them to be efficient in dam/TU, we might only need to restrict the range of the SMG. If we all agree that Standard weapons should be more efficient against armor, it might be a possible tweak to reduce the damage per shot of the SMG and increase the damage per shot of the MG and so on.


--- Quote from: nemchenk on February 17, 2008, 12:32:01 pm ---Also, if the aliens fought back via Reaction Fire, the worth of "one shot, one kill" weapons would increase. At the moment, it's quite feasible to shoot something 5 times with the MP, but if that generated 5 reaction attacks it would not be such a great idea.

--- End quote ---

I can only do some work on the current mechanisms. If the aliens use RF more, some new tweaking might be necessary.

nemchenk:
Well, I would rather improve the Snap Shot of the Assault Rifle, to be honest  :D Seems much more appropriate than lowering the max range of the SMG. Having weapons refuse to work just because the target is farther than 15 metres would ruin the suspension of disbelief for me :) Nerf the SMG by having it spray rounds all over the place -- when you are close that doesn't matter, but when you are farther away it certainly does.

Also, lower its ammo capacity: then it's 5-round burst would become more of a handicap. At the moment, it is still 10% of the mag as per other weapons. Make the mag 30 rounds, or even 20, and suddenly the SMG is not so uber -- you need to cart around more ammo, and even spend time reloading!  :o  ;D

Surrealistik:
First off, in my opinion there should be no max range whatsoever save for weapons like the plasma series which feature dissipating projectiles, where they would make sense. Let spread naturally determine maximum effective ranges rather than arbitrarily posing needless limitations.


Second, while most human weapons should enter obsolescence, those without an alien equivalent should remain viable throughout the game (e.g. grenade/rocket launcher, flamethrower). Further, it would be preferable if human weapons regained viability with additional research (e.g. new ammo types), so as to maximize tactical and gameplay options without sacrificing the centrepiece concept of an evolving arsenal.


Finally, weapons should match their qualitative and quantitative descriptions and properties as realistically as possible, with an overarcing emphasis on balance.  From what I gathered from the wiki, the average common denominators and properties of the major weapon categories (there are notable exceptions such as sniper rifles) seems to be as follows:

Plasma:

Damage: High
Accuracy: Low/Medium
Max (Effective) Range: Short-Short/Medium
Efficiency (Damage/TU): Very High
Penetration (Versus Armour): Medium

Particle Beam:

Damage: High
Accuracy: High
Max Range: Medium/Long
Efficiency: Medium/High
Penetration: High

Ballistic (Bullet/Kinetic based):

Damage: Low
Accuracy: Medium
Max Range: Medium
Efficency: Medium/High
Penetration: Low/Medium

Laser:

Damage: Low
Accuracy: Very High
Max Range: Very Long
Efficency: Low
Penetration: Medium/High

EuchreJack:

--- Quote ---First off, in my opinion there should be no max range whatsoever save for weapons like the plasma series which feature dissipating projectiles, where they would make sense. Let spread naturally determine maximum effective ranges rather than arbitrarily posing needless limitations.
--- End quote ---

I kind of like this idea.  I remember hearing that a pistol bullet fired expertly can travel over a mile, by angling the bullet up.  What if projectile weapons had a maximum range, and over that range there would be a 50/50 chance the bullet would hit the dirt?  Then, we wouldn't see bullets disappear into the abyss.  Though, the grenade launcher might be more limited than other projectile weapons, due to it's high mass and low velocity relative to other projectile weapons.  Same for thrown weapons.

Also, the non-projectile weapons generally involve a beam, which would lose coherence with range.  Technically, the beam weapons should lose strength with range, until they can't penetrate the uniforms.

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