General > Discussion
Melee attacks -- roadmap?
nemchenk:
--- Quote from: tobbe on February 17, 2008, 01:06:07 am ---The main point why i would not included blunt attacks is, that they would make other melee weapons worthless...why bother changing weapons for close combat...
--- End quote ---
Because of their damage type. You want a guarantee to stun someone, use the stun stick. You want to kill someone, use the knife. The blunt attacks are nowhere as good at either task.
Would you agree?
nemchenk
burns77:
Melee weapons are practically useless in this game... if you have any thing else at your disposal, you will use it first. The only way that a knife would be lethal is with some degree of stealth coming into play, say sneaking up behind an alien undetected...not to mention we are suggesting that alien anatomy is just like ours... most of the aliens have some kind or natural armor... or if they are wearing armor that is effective vs. bullets... do you really think a knife is going through at a much slower velocity than a bullet?
The argument of melee weapons from history being more brutally effective than modern day firearms is absurd. The invention of the crossbow and the longbow brought new standards to medieval warfare, sure swords are effective, but the counter to a sword was armor, plate mail in fact... you know what really changed all that? Firearms... bullets made armor ineffective... now with new armor being developed, the latest will stop multiple assault rifle rounds, it's weaponry's turn to evolve.
I agree with making melee weapons fast, with a low TU count, and damage being low... one stab...much like one 9mm round won't drop a person, unless you get really lucky, and I also think that long guns should have a range restriction, making them less useful in close combat... but you should also take into consideration that long weapons make great hand-to-hand weapons for blocking knives, or delivering blunt trauma, which could possibly stun an opponent.
You could always make it so that the only effective weapons at adjoining spaces could be knives... everything else could have a minimum firing distance, else it makes little sense in using a knife when I could put a full auto assault rifle burst into them from 3 inches away.
-Burns77
nemchenk:
I did make long-arm Bludgeon attacks better than pistol-whipping, to represent their improved usability as melee weapons. I should probably drop pistol-whip--like attacks a bit more -- they really are not as useful as a smack with a rifle butt.
I'm not sure if you were referring to Panthera Leo's point or mine about the knife being lethal/non-lethal. I meant it was more lethal than blunt damage, e.g. a rifle butt.
I'll see about another version of the patch, with the melee attacks being quicker but less damaging...
nemchenk
Panthera Leo:
Sorry, got a little too attached, so I took a brake. I did derail of more then a bit. My over all point? Guns a neat, but melee weapons are lethal as such should be greatly feared as such. A good rifle should be the preferred weapon, but never the de facto end all weapon. Melee shouldn't be a side note, maybe a burden, never a side note.
I guess they should be fast over anything else. I'm just thinking whatever form it takes, it should be well worth it. I know it puts a crimp in balance and seems odd, but don't under estimate a sharp blade as anything less awesome in its killing power. (As in the kerrblade being able to slice someone in half, not just be mean to them.)
shevegen:
--- Quote ---but you should also take into consideration that long weapons make great hand-to-hand weapons for blocking knives, or delivering blunt trauma, which could possibly stun an opponent.
--- End quote ---
I think that should depend formost on the available TU
if someone moved all his TU, then how could he still defend as good as someone who is cautiously and slowly moving around (and thus has more TU left)? I think the guy that is cautious would be better at defending against melee
Anyway I totally support melee combat getting a boost. Right now its kinda useless and i think this is sad. Yeah a kerr blade kills my guys happily, but the alien normally ends up next to my guy too and gets shot down, which is less effective for the aliens than a guy with a long range that snipes my guy and goes back into cover again :>
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