Melee attacks -- roadmap?

[nemchenk]

Hi All,

I'm still reading through the "back issues", so forgive me if this has been asked 10,000 times before and I've just not stumbled upon it yet Is there a roadmap for more physical, hand-to-hand type of attacks? I love that Knives are in, and I take it Stun Sticks make an appearance, but playing XCOM I often wished I could just twat the alien standing in front of one of my guys with the butt of a rifle.

Are there any plance for more melee firemodes for the various weapons? Punch/Kick for unarmed soldiers, Bludgeon and Bayonet with a Rifle or maybe SMG, Pistolwhip, etc I know it sounds a bit evil, but surely when the going gets tough, a soldier uses anything and everything to hand?


nemchenk

[Surrealistik]

Yes, impliment it all. I seriously want to go Bruce Lee on the aliens.

[SpaceWombat]

Hi nemchenk,

I want to see some reaction fire from my soldier's boots, too. 
As long as they don't answer with kerrblades...

Will other weapons than knifes and kerrblades be of any use in melee? A rifle would be an advantage in man-to-man combat even if the ammo is depleted.
That would require an additional button (or fire mode) if an alien stands close to a soldier but it would definitely add some fun. 

[nemchenk]

Heheh, reaction fire from boots, yesss....

Surrealistik, care to share? Or is it in SVN? I see it's as easy as adding a new firedef {} to weapons_human.ufo I like!


nemchenk

[BTAxis]

No animations for most of it though, but if you're content with using an animation for something else, there's no reason why it wouldn't work.

[btfx]

Hmm, this could be very cool, but I think it should be low on the priority list. Anyway, I guess to make it realistic (like real soldiers melee), you could have fighting - go martial arts on those Tamans, since they look easy to take, but also wrestle, since there's no way to beat up an Ortnok, but wrestling him could take that particle cannon out of play for a few turns. Of course, wrestling an Ortnok would be harsh on your HP, especially if he decides to smack you around a bit before going back to that cannon of his.

On the other hand cracking some Taman ribs could get you an early live alien... Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself.

[nemchenk]

Yes, impliment it all. I seriously want to go Bruce Lee on the aliens.

LOL, I misread this and thought you said "implemented", as in you've already done it  Aren't I a silly goose?

Well, if anyone wants to see them, I've got "Bludgeon" and "Bayonet" on my weapons No Kick/Punch yet, as I've not figured out how to do that for an empty hand -- probably will need some hacking on the game engine...

But if you want to pistol-whip or bludgeon your foes, give me a shout and I'll upload some patches.


Cheers,

nemchenk

[EuchreJack]

I imagine the easiest way to implement hand-to-hand combat would be to make a tiny item, such as brass knuckles, and add all the desired weapon modes to that.  The item could be the size of a grenade, so it won't be too bad on space.  Also, you could justify this in-game as, "An unarmed human would break their hand punching an alien, only through the use of ____ would hand-to-hand combat be possible."

[nemchenk]

I've posted Patch #1893638 on SF, if anyone wants to try it out For 2.2.x only at the moment. Here's the summary:

Code: [Select]

I've added "Bludgeon" as a firemode to all Human weapons (TODO: give the
Aliens the same ability?) to give a little bit of bloodthirsty realism,
John Woo-style :D The damage is "blast", easily stopped by armour but good
against unarmoured targets.

A summary of the attacks:

Knife, Stab (for comparison): 4TU, 20-40 dmg "steelblade"
Pistol & MP: 4TU, 5-35 dmg "blast"
SMG & Mini-shotgun: 5TU, 10-40 dmg "blast"
Assault Rifle/Civvie Shotgun/Bolter: 6TU, 20-50 dmg "blast"
Heavy weapons: 8TU, 25-55 dmg "blast"
V. Heavy weapons (minigun & RPG): 14TU, 30-60 dmg "blast"
Any comments or feedback on playability most welcome

[Psawhn]

Something really neat would be if certain weapons could be used as a defensive reaction to melee attacks. Someone with a rifle, knife, monoblade, kerrblade, or stunrod would attempt to parry or block an incoming melee attack, independent of reaction fire. Of course, blocking a kerrblade with a sniper rifle would probably break the rifle, but that would give another reason to equip secondary weapons.
(Skills involved would be Speed and CC vs. Strength and CC)

Of course, that's a somewhat drastic gameplay change, and much harder than simply adding a normal attack firemode to weapons.

[nemchenk]

Yeah, I was just playing with the scripts at first But, I was thinking about putting Reaction fire options back in for these -- that way you could at least smack the Alien with your rifle butt before he gets his Kerrblade attack in (if you were quick/lucky enough.)

I think I'll put those in and re-upload the patch...


PS. Any comments on the damage or TU balance? Too much, too little?

[Woreczko]

PS. Any comments on the damage or TU balance? Too much, too little?

IMHO they are definately too deadly. First off all, there is no way you can swing your rifle as fast as you are shooting. Secondly unless you hit your opponent in a weak spot, like face, stomach or groin, you aren`t going to hurt him very much. Thus the damage should be of stun type and very low maybe with high variation (so it may happen that you hit him hard, but it shouldn`t be a rule). If this is implemented, such attack should have a possibility of knocking down your opponent. In all honesty however, I don`t think it`s worth the effort.

[nemchenk]

Thanks for your feedback -- much appreciated

I agree -- they are too deadly. But, so is a knife -- 4TUs for up to 60 damage?! But, if the hand-to-hand attacks took longer, nobody would use them at all. Why bother when you can pull the trigger?

I agree on Stun as well, but that would make the Stun Rod pointless -- why bother researching it when you can beat the aliens into submission I think we need a 50/50 damage type, which stuns but can also kill by accident. Take a look at the mix-n-match Damage Types proposal in Design, and see what you think.

nemchenk

[Woreczko]

I agree -- they are too deadly. But, so is a knife -- 4TUs for up to 60 damage?! But, if the hand-to-hand attacks took longer, nobody would use them at all. Why bother when you can pull the trigger?

Yep, I think knife should be rather 6TU/40 dmg or even slower:) There is a reason, why it`s not used very often in  RL....

I agree on Stun as well, but that would make the Stun Rod pointless -- why bother researching it when you can beat the aliens into submission  I think we need a 50/50 damage type, which stuns but can also kill by accident. Take a look at the mix-n-match Damage Types proposal in Design, and see what you think.

That`s probably the best idea . Trying to stun the aliens early game by hammering them with rifles sounds really fun

[nemchenk]

Yeah, I think quite a few people are excited by the prospect of going mano-a-tamaan early on in the game

I was thinking -- maybe make melee attacks have a damage spread of 0-x? Because you don't even have to hit at the moment (not looked through code so don't know for sure...), so they are kinda very deadly. Especially with seemingly no RF from the aliens...

So, something like Knife, Stab: 4TU, 0-40 "steelblade"?