Weapons/equipment suggestions

[SpaceWombat]

Oh, about the minigun: it's a multiplayer-only weapon.

Is the reason for this that it will be to strong against the AI?
Sad to hear this anyway.

[Surrealistik]

On mortar/artillery - this kind of thing would certanly be widely used, though I am worried about balance issues. Aside from that, UFO games were about careful moving through an area and thrilling gunfights rather then raining the area with firepower from safety and  finishing survivors. Though sometimes I do want such sort of the thing, just because those freaking alien bastards keep killing my squad!

Between limited accuracy, ammunition, high TU costs and the threat of collateral damage, I don't think the mortar would prove unbalanced at all. It's not as if you'll have unlimited rounds and time with which to rain explosive death on the aliens. Any balance related issues could ultimately be ironed out with tweaking anyways (and it's not as if existing weapons couldn't stand to benefit from this either, looking at you SMG).

I think the staggering thing would be hard to do, because it severely complicates pathfinding, which is calculated before the animation starts, and currently has no random factors. It also can not be interrupted manually yet. If anything, I think that should be remedied before anything like this comes into the picture.

Yes, pathfinding would have to be improved before this sort of thing becomes possible. At the very least, it should be made interruptable so that, in the event of a misclick or error players can do some damage control, besides the obvious application of permitting the staggering effect (movement would be interrupted whenever an FBed actor moved off course).

[Zorlen]

Speaking of alien weapons - I have an obvoius suggestion of antimatter bomb and stereotypical one of sort of corrosive slimy goo thrower. Aside from them, I could suggest some rather weird counterpart to human flamethrower:

Flayer blaster (I am bad at naming weapons!)
The weapon act much like a sandblasting device. It emits a high-velocity stream of heated air mixed with hot grits made of alien memory material. As grits penetrate material or flesh and begin cool down, their shape starts changing due to memory properties, dealing massive additional damage. Skin and flesh are virtually ripped from the bone in seconds from any unprotected body part. Full body cover offer some protection, however any prolonged bombardment by thousands of sharp grits would tear the heaviest of armors into shreds. Fortunately, the range at which grits retain their penetration capacity is limited.  Besides, cooled-down and re-shaped particles don't produce such devastating effect. Hence, weapon's range is restricted to 10 meters or so. Flayer blaster and its ammo are too heavy to be effeciently utilized even by strongest of human soldiers. Moreover, firing it is much like trying to hold a jet engine, therefore its use by aliens is restricted only to strongest species, like Ortnoks.

[Woreczko]

Remember, that plasma guns have a "spray" firemode, which is very much flamer-like (but it got disabled in 2.2 for no apparent reason?!). If we are going to have yet another "flamer" it would have to offer something new, like exceptional range or effectiveness vs armours which protect against plasma and fire

[Zorlen]

Remember, that plasma guns have a "spray" firemode, which is very much flamer-like (but it got disabled in 2.2 for no apparent reason?!). If we are going to have yet another "flamer" it would have to offer something new, like exceptional range or effectiveness vs armours which protect against plasma and fire

It seems that I missed the spray firemode of plasma weapons! However, if implemented, the flayer should be more powerful, since it is heavier than plasma and less versatile (no longer range firemodes). Besides, it seems to deal normal damage, unlike other alien ranged weapons.

[Surrealistik]

Actually, an upgraded flamethrower which featured plasma instead of conventional fuel would be pretty sweet. Possible new alien weapon? They happen to be lacking a flamethrower equivalent. Could be a secondary fire mode for the Blaster.

[Woreczko]

Meh guys, it`s already there:

Code: [Select]

weapon_mod plaspistol
{
firedef
{
name "_Snap Shot"
skill close
projtl plasmaMiniPulse
impact plasmaImpactCharged
hitbody plasmaImpactCharged
firesnd weapons/plasma_s
speed 1800
spread "1.1 1.1"
crouch 0.8
range 15
shots 1
ammo 1
delaybetweenshots 6
time 6
damage "45 7"
dmgweight plasma_light
reaction true
}
firedef
{
name "_Burst"
skill close
projtl plasmaMiniPulse
impact plasmaImpactCharged
hitbody plasmaImpactCharged
firesnd weapons/plasma_s
speed 1800
spread "1.4 1.4"
crouch 0.8
range 15
shots 3
ammo 3
delaybetweenshots 6
time 10
damage "45 7"
dmgweight plasma_light
reaction true
}
// firedef
// {
// name "_Spray"
// skill close
// projtl plasmaContinuous
// impact plasmaImpact
// hitbody plasmaImpact
// firesnd weapons/plasma_c
// sndonce true
// speed 0
// spread "1 5"
// crouch 1.0
// range 10
// shots 30
// ammo 6
// delaybetweenshots 32
// time 16
// damage "45 7"
// dmgweight plasma_light
// }
}
}

Look at the last, disalbled firemode,: spray - works just like the flamer. Of course damage values are way off, but all the graphic&sound work was done in earlier versions.

Here is how it looks after my balancing:

Code: [Select]

weapon_mod plaspistol
{
firedef
{
name "_Ball"
skill close
projtl plasmaMiniPulse
impact plasmaImpactCharged
hitbody plasmaImpactCharged
firesnd weapons/plasma_s
speed 1800
spread "2.1 2.1"
crouch 0.9
range 15
shots 1
ammo 1
delaybetweenshots 6
time 6
damage "45 10"
dmgweight plasma_medium
reaction true
}
firedef
{
name "_Bubbles"
skill close
projtl plasmaMiniPulse
impact plasmaImpactCharged
hitbody plasmaImpactCharged
firesnd weapons/plasma_s
speed 1800
spread "2.4 2.4"
crouch 0.9
range 15
shots 3
ammo 3
delaybetweenshots 6
time 10
damage "45 10"
dmgweight plasma_medium
reaction true
}
firedef
{
name "_Spray"
skill close
projtl plasmaContinuous
impact plasmaImpact
hitbody plasmaImpact
firesnd weapons/plasma_c
sndonce true
speed 0
spread "3 3"
crouch 1.0
range 6
shots 20
ammo 6
delaybetweenshots 32
time 10
damage "10 2"
dmgweight plasma_light
reaction true
}
}
}


I`ve added spray mode to all plasma weapons in similar manner, bigger guns just offer bigger damage for more TU`s.

Such firemode is, I think, easily explainable. In ufopedia one can read, that plasma weapons fire heated hydrogen (in the plasma form) into the plastic film, thus creating a ball, which would travel to the victim and break on impact releasing ultra-hot plasma on target. While "spraying", plasma guns just spit plasma without "packing" it into the plastic. Plasma, without the protective film, loses it`s temperature very fast, so it can`t travel very far (6 meters in my interpretation). However it can be "sprayed" very fast and works just as the flamethrower.

[sirg]

We actually have one. In trunk, not 2.2, that is. It doesn't adjust any stats though, nor are there plans for stat-altering armour. That area is going to be taken care of by implants.

OK, but from what I've read, some of the advanced alien weapons are to heavy to be used by humans, yet, despite the fact that research notes say the particle canon is to heavy to be carried by a human, my people can fire it with great efficiency.

Question - are you going to add some kind of stat requirements, like X strength, Y explosives, Z heavy, for certain weapons? At least the strength requirement would be logical.

Other thing - the alien weapons have penalties when used by humans. Are you considering designing at least one manmade plasma based weapon, basicaly the same thing with the alien weapon, but more accurate, maybe  slightly less powerful, so you can trade power for accuracy.
But I think it would be logical for PHALANX to develop their own weapons based on alien tech, like you already implemented the plasma shells.

Why is the minigun out of the campain?

[BTAxis]

OK, but from what I've read, some of the advanced alien weapons are to heavy to be used by humans, yet, despite the fact that research notes say the particle canon is to heavy to be carried by a human, my people can fire it with great efficiency.

Question - are you going to add some kind of stat requirements, like X strength, Y explosives, Z heavy, for certain weapons? At least the strength requirement would be logical.

I don't know. We haven't got a definite plan for this as far as I know. However, I can tell you that as far as I am concerned there will not be an "encumbrance" system in the classical sense. Rather, I intend for armour to limit the mobility of the soldier wearing it (translating in a TU penalty). The effect is a tradeoff in armour strength versus mobility. Though it seems like a gross oversight to ignore the weight of the equipment, I feel it would make for a good game mechanic. The tradeoff is fair (if well-balanced, of course), and it's simple, which classic encumbrance tends not to be.

However, I would be open to disallow soldiers from using or even carrying weapons if they did not meet certain requirements, like strength. These requirements could be clearly marked on the weapon description, so it would - again - be simple and straightforward.

I know, it's not exactly the realistic approach, but I tend to think in terms of gameplay. Winter's the realism guy around here, really.

Other thing - the alien weapons have penalties when used by humans. Are you considering designing at least one manmade plasma based weapon, basicaly the same thing with the alien weapon, but more accurate, maybe slightly less powerful, so you can trade power for accuracy.
But I think it would be logical for PHALANX to develop their own weapons based on alien tech, like you already implemented the plasma shells.

No concrete plans, but hey, it could happen. Again, the greatest hurdle is the work involved in making one. If someone showed up and gave us a good model for such a weapon, we'd probably contrive to include it. We can't afford to be (too) picky when it comes to volunteered content.

Why is the minigun out of the campain?

Winter hates it. And when Winter hates something, it ain't happening.

[Surrealistik]

I don't know. We haven't got a definite plan for this as far as I know. However, I can tell you that as far as I am concerned there will not be an "encumbrance" system in the classical sense. Rather, I intend for armour to limit the mobility of the soldier wearing it (translating in a TU penalty). The effect is a tradeoff in armour strength versus mobility. Though it seems like a gross oversight to ignore the weight of the equipment, I feel it would make for a good game mechanic. The tradeoff is fair (if well-balanced, of course), and it's simple, which classic encumbrance tends not to be.

However, I would be open to disallow soldiers from using or even carrying weapons if they did not meet certain requirements, like strength. These requirements could be clearly marked on the weapon description, so it would - again - be simple and straightforward.

As I said before, I hate the degredation of the importance of the Strength rating, and the elimination of encumberance, but am willing to accept a compromise in the form of minimum requirements. That said, I also think that Strength should be factored into spread/accuracy calculations for high recoil weapons, in addition to throwing distances and melee weapon damage.

Winter hates it. And when Winter hates something, it ain't happening.

This is a problem when the majority of the playerbase likes something by contrast. Miniguns are rad.

Such firemode is, I think, easily explainable. In ufopedia one can read, that plasma weapons fire heated hydrogen (in the plasma form) into the plastic film, thus creating a ball, which would travel to the victim and break on impact releasing ultra-hot plasma on target. While "spraying", plasma guns just spit plasma without "packing" it into the plastic. Plasma, without the protective film, loses it`s temperature very fast, so it can`t travel very far (6 meters in my interpretation). However it can be "sprayed" very fast and works just as the flamethrower.

Yep. A new projectile for the spray firemode is needed however (perhaps this is why it was disabled). The current one resembles a blue laser as opposed to a gaseous type discharge. In all though, a specialized 'plasmathrower' like weapon specifically designed for sustained close range combat would make for an interesting addition to the alien arsenal as it currently fills a niche no other weapon does. Plasma blades while powerful are one shot deals that feature shorter effective ranges, while Kerrblades lack any ranged component, and like most other alien weapons probably wouldn't be as efficient (damage/tu wise) to begin with.

[BTAxis]

This is a problem when the majority of the playerbase likes something by contrast. Miniguns are rad.

Heh. What can I say? Winter's more important to the team than the majority of the player base...

It should be fairly easy to script the minigun into the singleplayer game, though. You just wouln't have a UFOpaedia entry for it.

[Surrealistik]

Heh. What can I say? Winter's more important to the team than the majority of the player base...

Wait. You're openly admitting that the overwhelming opinion of your audience (whom you make the game in large part for ostensibly) is less important than that of a single person on the design team responsible for the storyline? Earnest but highly insulting.

[eleazar]

Earnest but highly insulting.

You must be frequently insulted.

Developers of a free game like this have absolutely no obligation to the players.  They choose to produce something and choose to make it available to whoever is interested. A single player or a millions players may of course give feedback and make suggesting.  But developers owe nothing to the players.  They have given the players something worth dozens or hundreds of hours of their life

[Surrealistik]

Whoa, hold on there smart guy, where did I say that I was 'owed' anything by the devs first off?  Secondly, one of the biggest motivators that factors into the creation of a freeware game, if not the biggest is the enjoyment of its playerbase. Few people intentionally make games and features that aren't appealing to its audience (or that will not garner one in the first place), paid or not. Because this is so, the opinion of that playerbase as an aggregate is usually held in the highest regard, typically valued over what some individual on the dev team finds to be a 'good idea' in contrast (and is shown to be anything but with respect to said playerbase's feedback). That said, to effectively and clearly dismiss not only the opinions, but also the collective importance of so many relative to that of a single member of the development team is obviously beyond insulting. Who is this game being made for? Winter, or the people who actually play (and largely appreciate) it? If the former, the dev team may as well say so, right here and now, so we know exactly where it stands, and can adjust our opinions of it accordingly.

[Zorlen]

In a community-driven game like this playerbase suggestions are more likely to be taken into account than in some commercial project. Hovewer, in order to maintain coherent game style (or call it sprirt if you wish) someone must be responsible for plotting general course. And anything that contradicts with his or her vision of how the game is intended to be is mercilessly rejected. That surely hurts democracy ideals, but otherwise we'll end with a weird mix of jedi lightsabers, giant robots and someone's pet puddle (it is so cute, you can't leave it out of the game!)
On the other hand, even rejected ideas can be used later, if a need arises, or serve as inspiration for something more decent. So it won't hurt the developers to have a pool of such. And not intending to teach anyone, but, well, some diplomacy could be used in public relations. Beeing too straightforward can be discouraging to community.